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HSFY 2017

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Stuart

Administrator
Emeritus Staff
I don't know - my own understanding of it wouldn't be much more than 100-level (and is restricted to concepts relevant to medical research studies). You don't need some huge broad statistical background or something, just enough to be able to follow the common analyses used in medical literature.

It isn't like it's a 100% totally necessary prerequisite for medicine, obviously. Just from personal experience, I can say I'd certainly have preferred to have a better grounding in it before starting research. And since most people in medicine end up involved in some form of research at some point, it's a helpful skill to have.

I see. I sometimes hear things like that: "I wish I did statistics when I could (e.g. high-school/undergrad)" but I always question the benefit of studying statistics at the introductory level. In particular, STAT110/STAT115 at Otago. Just for the record, I wasn't challenging you, I was just curious and you have way more university/research under your belt than myself.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
I see. I sometimes hear things like that: "I wish I did statistics when I could (e.g. high-school/undergrad)" but I always question the benefit of studying statistics at the introductory level. In particular, STAT110/STAT115 at Otago. Just for the record, I wasn't challenging you, I was just curious and you have way more university/research under your belt than myself.
Yeah that's very true, medicine is insanely broad, so do you do hear people wishing they had a better background in a huge number of different areas. My consultants are forever touting the paramount importance and broad applications of their own area of interest, and I suppose I'm doing the same thing right now haha. As for the contents of STAT110/115, I have no idea what they cover, so I'll have to defer to you on that one. I struggle to see a basic stats curriculum not covering a lot of the useful basic concepts, though.

I'll qualify my comments, then:
If you have an interest in public health or in doing research while you're at medical school, consider getting some form of stats knowledge under your belt (whether that's a STAT paper or just learning on your own during your holidays or in Early Learning in Medicine years). If you don't, or you've got enough on your plate right now anyway, don't worry about it too much for now. For all my whiging about how I wish my background had been better, I've managed to do a BMedSc and three summer studentships without any 'formal' statistics training, so it isn't the end of the world if you can't fit it in. Just something to think about, particularly now that with the optional 8th paper you have an opportunity to learn some statistics and get uni credit for it.
 

Clav

Otago MB ChB PGY2
@frootloop could you recommend any specific area of stats that would be good to cover in my own time? Thinking about using Khan academy rather than doing a complete paper
 

rustyedges

Moderator
Moderator
@frootloop could you recommend any specific area of stats that would be good to cover in my own time? Thinking about using Khan academy rather than doing a complete paper

At a minimum, knowing how to interpret and create confidence intervals, p-values, and hypothesis tests. Other useful things include knowing how to do t-tests, ANOVA, chi-squared tests, and just an understanding of normal distribution is really useful (Most people in one of my groups in medicine had no idea about this).

Also, should obviously know the stats you'll learn as you go in PUBH: risks, odds, sensitivity/specificity/PPV/NPV etc.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
@frootloop could you recommend any specific area of stats that would be good to cover in my own time? Thinking about using Khan academy rather than doing a complete paper
There's all the stuff on means and confidence intervals etc, but I'm assuming you're pretty familiar with calculating/using those. Beyond that, of you have a reasonable theoretical understanding of, and a basic idea of how and when to use most of the functions on the OpenEpi site (fantastic site, btw) then that's a good start.

Things like regressions are good too if you're super keen, and it helps to be familiar with using applications like SPSS or R (or SAS if you're majorly ambitious).

And pay close attention to the study designs lectures in PUBH (and it'd help later down the track if you understood a bit more of the stuff behind them than is taught in PUBH, but there's loads of time for that).

As you can probably tell by these piecemeal suggestions, I was taught stats 'on the fly' rather than in a formal curriculum haha. But if you look through a few different types of study in an area you're interested in and you can follow/critique their methods and the statistical reasoning they use, then that's pretty darn good.

EDIT: Listen to rusty, not my rambling haha.
 

Stuart

Administrator
Emeritus Staff
I think studying on the fly is a good way to go rather than taking university papers. After all, you are becoming something else, not a statistician. It will be cheaper and probably get you what you need (and only what you need) fast and quick. The internet is capable of answering most of the questions that will arise along the way.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
I think studying on the fly is a good way to go rather than taking university papers. After all, you are becoming something else, not a statistician. It will be cheaper and probably get you what you need (and only what you need) fast and quick. The internet is capable of answering most of the questions that will arise along the way.
There's also support available on the fly if you're willing to push for it, too. If you have a decent supervisor you can push them to teach you stuff, and the medical schools have consultant biostatisticians if you need an expert to give your proposal (or your preliminary results) the once-over.
 

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Clav

Otago MB ChB PGY2
what are the 'essential' books for ELM? I already own both baby and big robbins, pretty sure I have Grays, and a few others from when my gf did med, but ELM for her was a long time ago so they're probably either out of date/no longer used
 

Stuart

Administrator
Emeritus Staff
what are the 'essential' books for ELM? I already own both baby and big robbins, pretty sure I have Grays, and a few others from when my gf did med, but ELM for her was a long time ago so they're probably either out of date/no longer used

Hi,

I think this question has been discussed before. You should check out the MBChB thread.
 

Cindyxue15

Member
Hi guys!
Long time stalker, you have no idea how long I've been creeping over this forum lol :p
Anyways, uhhh I'm just another typical worried HSFY hopeful, and basically I'm in it to get into Dentistry... However I've seen in previous Ranking and Offers threads that people that got into Dent and Med got averages of ~95 across their papers. I'm worried that I won't get into Dent which is really my #1 goal, and I just wanted to know if it is still possible to have a chance? I'm very willing to up my game in sem 2 as actually I didn't make the transition from highschool to uni quite well. But now I want to make my move to Otago worth it :yay:

Thank you so much, this site is a gold mine for information *-*
 
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frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
what are the 'essential' books for ELM? I already own both baby and big robbins, pretty sure I have Grays, and a few others from when my gf did med, but ELM for her was a long time ago so they're probably either out of date/no longer used
The basic sciences like pathology and anatomy don't evolve particularly quickly (or at least, what's taught to preclincal medical students evolves at a glacial pace), so books like Robbins and Grays are probably fine. I can't imagine your girlfriend would've gone through more than about 10 years ago anyway (?), so they're probably only an edition or two out of date.

Stuff like Talley and O'Connor or the Oxford Handbook of Clinical Medicine - anything particularly 'clinical', really - do go out of date a little faster. But even then, for what you'll be learning in HSFY, it probably wouldn't matter that much.

Anyway, as others on here have insisted many times (and you discovered yourself with the HSFY textbooks), most of the textbooks you buy will end up being used for little more than decoration. The medical school does give you most of the content you need (in the form of slides, lecture handouts etc), and the rest is usually easier to find online than in a textbook anyway. So I wouldn't worry too much about having slightly out-of-date books, unless you're going to be one of those people who becomes a human UpToDate access portal from week 2 of second year.

Hi guys!
Long time stalker, you have no idea how long I've been creeping over this forum lol :p
Anyways, uhhh I'm just another typical worried HSFY hopeful, and basically I'm in it to get into Dentistry... (Not really looking into Medicine or Pharmacy otherwise I would've stayed in Auckland to go UoA - don't kill me). I'm really worried because my sem 1 results weren't that great, I got 82, 84, 84, 86. However I've seen in previous Ranking and Offers threads that people that got into Dent and Med got averages of ~95 across their papers. I'm so worried that I won't get into Dent which is really my #1 goal, and I just wanted to know if it is still possible to have a chance? I'm very willing to up my game in sem 2 as actually I was pretty depressed in sem 1 (didn't make the transition from highschool to uni quite well). But now I want to make my move to Otago worth it :yay:

Thank you so much, this site is a gold mine for information *-*
Welcome!

For obvious reasons, people with 95%-type scores are vastly over-represented in posts here. However, that doesn't imply that you need grades like that to get in. Dentistry has been a little trickier than medicine to work out cut-offs for historically (although we're planning on making a big push to get a better idea of the dent cut-off this year - for which we need posters like you with 'lower' scores).

What we do know of the dentistry cut-off is that it's nowhere near the 95% mark, so you can breath a little :p So far as we know, it's usually somewhere in the low-mid 80's. Your semester 1 grades are floating somewhere in that range, so you're at the very least in with a reasonable shot. Particularly if you are able to pull your average up a couple of percent this semester if all goes to plan (sorry to hear about your depression in sem 1 - the move away from home to HSFY can be pretty stressful, hope you're doing better now), then you should be in with a healthy chance of getting in - and, if you stick around, of helping us get more accurate data on the dent cut-off!
 

Clav

Otago MB ChB PGY2
Ah yep I have the oxford handbook and i think it's the latest, and my big copy of robbins is the latest edition. Gf started ELM in 2009 I think, so not far off 10 years :p

I really just prefer up to date textbooks because I'm too lazy to seek information on pages other than what is listed! :D
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
Oh what, your girlfriend only went through ELM like 3 years before me, and I've never even contemplated whether my ELM stuff is out of date haha.

While HSFY lecturers like to give specific readings, the number of times I remember that happening in ELM were... limited. They'd usually just write something like 'read relevant chapter in Robbins'. So idk if it's worth blowing a huge amount of money on new books just so that you very occasionally don't have to use the table of contents :p
 

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Clav

Otago MB ChB PGY2
Sounds good to me.

Getting quite frustrated with admissions at the moment, I've asked for access to the HSFY material so I can use this semester to revise stuff so I'll feel more confident going into ELM but they won't give me access because I'm not enrolled in those papers.... yet somehow med students can still get them. I would have thought they would be all for taking the initiative.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
Sounds good to me.

Getting quite frustrated with admissions at the moment, I've asked for access to the HSFY material so I can use this semester to revise stuff so I'll feel more confident going into ELM but they won't give me access because I'm not enrolled in those papers.... yet somehow med students can still get them. I would have thought they would be all for taking the initiative.
Oh good lord, that sounds about right - get ready for two whole years of this sort of logic.

Tbh just either get the slides off someone, or study it on your own. You've got a copy of Gray's by the sounds of things, so dive into that and maybe just like some of the many (many) 'basics of public health' type videos floating around on youtube.
 
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