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Otago MBChB Class of 2018

Frenchy

Member
Hey guys! I'm applying to Summer Studentships (in Auckland) at the moment and was wondering if anyone had any advice or suggestions on how to go about it?
 

Lego Man

Regular Member
Hey everyone! I was just wondering do the admin people put up weightings for different topics for the finals? I heard anatomy, path, pharm and physiology get higher weighting, and wondered if the rest gets weightings as well? D:

Hi mrsdinocrocetti,

Once you're in the exam and see the questions, they get weighted according to the allocated time. For example, if question 1(a) recommended 2mins to answer and question 1(b) recommended 4mins, then I presume 1(b) would be weighted twice as high as question 1(a) since it has twice the time allocated to it. Scores across all of the questions are then weighted to give an overall SAQ mark for the written component. This mark is then combined with the OSPE mark and futher weighted to give a "written assessment" score: the SAQ component is weighted 540/590 and the OSPE weighted 50/590. These weightings reflect the time spent on each assessment component: we spend 540 minutes in SAQ exams (3 exams * 180mins each) and only 50 minutes in OSPE, so the two are weighted accordingly. A pass grade (3/5) is required overall in the written component: theoretically, you could fail every single question in the OSPE but so long as your weighted SAQ mark was above 3.28/5 then you would pass the written component (I can write out how I got to that calculation if anyone wanted to check but it's a little hard to write equations on here). The weighting information and the requirement for an overall pass in the written component is outlined on Page 17 of the PDF on Moodle titled "MBChB Programme of Assessment Policies and Procedures 2014". This is available for download on the ELM2 homepage.

As for the questions that will come up, who knows. I assume that there will be far more content on things that were focussed more on during the year, i.e I assume there will be more weighting on spread between anatomy, physiology, pathology and pharmacology than the other modules. Those ones seem to be the core ones. The subjects themselves don't get higher weightings in the exam, they are probably just asked more frequently (ie. 100 minutes worth of questions devoted to physiology vs. 50 minutes devoted to bioethics or something like that). You will know the questions that will be weighted more according to the time they have allocated.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
This mark is then combined with the OSPE mark and futher weighted to give a "written assessment" score: the SAQ component is weighted 540/590 and the OSPE weighted 50/590. These weightings reflect the time spent on each assessment component: we spend 540 minutes in SAQ exams (3 exams * 180mins each) and only 50 minutes in OSPE, so the two are weighted accordingly. A pass grade (3/5) is required overall in the written component: theoretically, you could fail every single question in the OSPE but so long as your weighted SAQ mark was above 3.28/5 then you would pass the written component (I can write out how I got to that calculation if anyone wanted to check but it's a little hard to write equations on here). The weighting information and the requirement for an overall pass in the written component is outlined on Page 17 of the PDF on Moodle titled "MBChB Programme of Assessment Policies and Procedures 2014".
I'm not sure if they combine the OSPE and writtens for an overall grade, but I'm 99% sure you do actually have to pass the OSPE. If you fail the OSPE, you fail the year, and have to redo the OSPE at the special exams. They're pretty explicit that you have to pass each component individually, unless they've randomly changed that since last year?

ETA: Note, this is largely academic anyway, I've only heard of very few people actually managing to fail the OSPE, it's a cakewalk if you've paid any attention all year haha
 
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Lego Man

Regular Member
I'm not sure if they combine the OSPE and writtens for an overall grade, but I'm 99% sure you do actually have to pass the OSPE. If you fail the OSPE, you fail the year, and have to redo the OSPE at the special exams. They're pretty explicit that you have to pass each component individually, unless they've randomly changed that since last year?

ETA: Note, this is largely academic anyway, I've only heard of very few people actually managing to fail the OSPE, it's a cakewalk if you've paid any attention all year haha

I think it's changed this year. I thought they were seperate too until I read the guidelines... Here's what they say, if anyone else interprets it differently let me know your thoughts:

Page 16:

This examination comprises three 3-hour SAQ papers and one 50-minute OSPE paper.
Each SAQ paper includes several clinical cases with each case consisting of a number of questions focusing
on material drawn from both block and vertical modules, Healthcare in the Community, Integrated Cases and
Clinical Skills. Each part question within a case is marked on a 1 – 5 scale (1 = clear fail; 2 = bare fail; 3 =
bare pass; 4 = clear pass; 5 = potential distinction). Each question is weighted according to the time
allocation for that question, which is known to the student. A student’s final mark in the SAQ component is
calculated by aggregating the weighted marks across the three papers and calculating the mean.
The summative OSPE consists of approximately 50 questions (one minute each) on anatomy (including
histology) and pathology. Each question is weighted equally and a candidate’s overall percentage result is
calculated across the OSPE as a whole. The following conversion scale is used to convert the OSPE
percentage mark into a score on the same 1-5 scale as used to mark the SAQ component: 100-80% = 5; 79-
60% = 4; 59-50% = 3; 49-40% = 2; <40% = 1)

A candidate’s combined aggregate written score will be calculated as follows:
(540/590 * SAQ mark) + (50/590* OSPE mark)

Students must achieve a mean of at least a ‘bare pass’ (equivalent to a score of 3.00) in the written
examination overall
, i.e., assessment is based on performance over the three SAQ papers and the OSPE
paper.

On Specials (Page 17):

See section 1.6 for general information regarding eligibility to sit special examinations.
1. Students who fail either the Written or OSCE examination[SUP]1[/SUP] in the end of year examinations in ELM
will be required to resit only the examination they have failed. However, a repeating student who
fails one of the examinations would normally be required to resit both examinations.
2. Students who fail either the Written or OSCE examinations and have only achieved a marginal pass
in the other examination, which would normally mean a score of less than 3.2, will be required to
resit both examinations.
3. Students who comprehensively fail both examinations, which would normally mean a score of less
than 2.75 in both the Written and OSCE examination, will not be offered a resit and will be required
to repeat the year.
4. In exceptional circumstances the BOC 2-3 may recommend that a student who has comprehensively.

[SUP]1[/SUP] ‘This refers to the overall Written or OSCE examination and does not refer to the sub-components that
make up each of the examinations.

The fact that they weight SAQ and OSPE marks at all for a written component aggregate makes it seem like performance in the individual components seems less relevant if you can make up for low marks in one component with high marks in the other. In terms of the policies for sitting the specials, there is no mention at all of either "SAQ" or "OSPE" only "written" and "OSCE". Especially the last bit: they say they refer to the overall score when deciding if someone should sit specials and not the score within OSPE or SAQ.

Do you think it's a better system? To be honest it makes it sound easier to pass the year. OSPE gets an 8.5% weighting over the SAQ which gets 91.5% which was pretty suprising.
 

Cathay

🚂Train Driver🚆
Emeritus Staff
[offtopic]
ETA: Note, this is largely academic anyway
In the context of academic results, we should probably say "largely theoretical" :p /bad-attempt-at-puns [/offtopic]
 

Combat Wombat

Fabulous
Students must achieve a mean of at least a ‘bare pass’ (equivalent to a score of 3.00) in the written
examination overall, i.e., assessment is based on performance over the three SAQ papers and the OSPE
paper.
...you can make up for low marks in one component with high marks in the other
And the OSPE suddenly becomes far less of a concern for me!
Jeremy-Renner.gif
 

Cathay

🚂Train Driver🚆
Emeritus Staff
And the OSPE suddenly becomes far less of a concern for me!
Though to be fair, many of us overestimated the difficulty of the 2nd year OSPE, and I'm willing to bet that despite all the fuss, most of you guys will be just fine anyway.
 

quail

Registrar
Just wondering if any third/fourth years had any advice going into ELM 3, particularly around each of the block modules. Have found some useful info already on MSO, but is from two-three years ago.
 

Bluerock

Regular Member
Just wrote up a massive reply but backspace decided to delete the entire thing. So here's a shortened version. Feel free to ask if you want any expansion on any of this.

You cover (in order): neuro, metabolism, RCA, renal, endocrine and reproduction.

Neuro is one of the bigger modules and is a hard start to the year. Don't be hungover for the first lab. Take advantage of the demonstrators, they're quite good in breaking down the need to know from the nice to know. Each major lecturer has questions in the final, so you'll kinda have to know everything to some degree. Even though you can predict the exam questions to a reasonable degree here. Learn the brainstem back and forwards.

Metabolism is similar to BIOC 192 in HSFY. Know how different physiological and pathological states affect metabolic pathways. Sorted. The majority of genetics teaching is also at this time, but they really want you to just know the bunch of terms and understand their use in an argument for their exam question (e.g. Why would you recommend/not recommend the use of 23AndMe in this case. Repeat each year).

RCA also starts the same time as metabolism. It is split into four parts - head and neck, thorax, abdomen and pelvis. These extend all the way to the end of the year. Head and neck is the most difficult and finicky (in my opinion). The best way to tackle this module is using flash cards. I made about a thousand in total using Anki and Image Occlusion, but only did ~250 a week as they came up and knew anatomy pretty well by the time the exams came around. PM me if you want a dropbox link to these flash cards in advance. A lot of people struggle with anatomy and try and cram in their study week - this takes up a huge amount of time and causes a huge amount of stress

Renal is difficult, but not impossible. Prof Walker has very high expectations. It is also one of those modules where you won't understand what is going on till the very end. The renal essay is also a dreaded part of the year, but if you practice them (use exam questions or maybe someone will pass them down) they are fine. It may be a good idea to read the Robbin's chapter on glomerulonephritis early on - as this can be confusing at the start and isn't explained overly well before you begin.

Endocrine is also taught around this time. This is difficult and requires a decent amount of prep, but they do give you a lot of practice questions and the course co-ordinator is very quick to answer questions via email if you are concerned. Do the quizzes on moodle and understand the answers and you will be fine.

RDA (reproduction, developing and ageing) rounds up the year. In my opinion this was the most disorganised and frustrating to learn, as it is very disjointed and lectures often overlap with different "correct" answers. However it is tested relatively fairly and as it is immediately prior to exams, it's pretty fresh in your mind.

I'll say it now: I didn't enjoy ELM 3 that much. I enjoyed parts of it, and some things (HIC in particular) are better than ELM 2. However it is really hard to keep motivated so make sure you take lots of time to yourself and avoid burn-out. Socialise with non-med people as well as it's important to keep grounded. Good luck!
 
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quail

Registrar
So this thread seems a bit tired, but in the case that anyone is still out there haha:

Is anyone able to provide a run down of ALM 5 for the UOC campus, and/or how they studied for the finals? I'm seeing a lot of USMLE Step 2 CK and the little blue book floating around, and some Toronto notes here and there - so I presume these are what most people use. Also wondering if there are any other resources worth getting such as the PasTest question banks etc, or some practice OSCE stations?

I'm happy to write an updated post on ALM 4 for the Christchurch campus if anyone is interested, all finished up with the last run for the year next week! :p
 

rustyedges

Moderator
Moderator
Hey we've got our ELM3 OSCE on this week - does anyone remember what the examinations were in their ELM3 OSCEs in past years?

Last year was neuro motor exam for either upper or lower limb, and head and neck exam. I think resits were BP and pregnant abdomen. There isn't a lot else they can really ask this year, aside from sensory and cranial nerve exams.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
So I'm officially re-enrolled as a 5th year medic. Greetings, new comrades!
 

quail

Registrar
@frootloop - Just starting on the Ortho/Adv Surg run, any tips? From what I've heard it seems like a chill run except that the timetable has clinics and theatre every day! It's busier than general medicine!
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
@frootloop - Just starting on the Ortho/Adv Surg run, any tips? From what I've heard it seems like a chill run except that the timetable has clinics and theatre every day! It's busier than general medicine!
Yeah it's a good run, I really enjoyed it, was much more relaxed than you'd expect from a surgical run haha. It might be 'busy' in terms of contact hours, but outside of that you don't have heaps of case histories due etc, so it doesn't feel too bad.

Basically just make sure you know your anatomy better than I did haha, otherwise the regs are surprisingly chill and will let you do heaps of cool stuff if you show that you're keen, and the consultants are pretty cool once you get past the occasional snap. End of run MCQ was a bit wtf, but I'm pretty sure we all passed it. OSCE was pretty easy in theory, but it depended who your marker was. You'll love it though, it was a really good run.

I presume you just came off gen med? Any tips haha, holy moly there seems like a lot to learn, not quite sure how to tackle a run so... broad.
 

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quail

Registrar
Yeah it's a good run, I really enjoyed it, was much more relaxed than you'd expect from a surgical run haha. It might be 'busy' in terms of contact hours, but outside of that you don't have heaps of case histories due etc, so it doesn't feel too bad.

Basically just make sure you know your anatomy better than I did haha, otherwise the regs are surprisingly chill and will let you do heaps of cool stuff if you show that you're keen, and the consultants are pretty cool once you get past the occasional snap. End of run MCQ was a bit wtf, but I'm pretty sure we all passed it. OSCE was pretty easy in theory, but it depended who your marker was. You'll love it though, it was a really good run.

I presume you just came off gen med? Any tips haha, holy moly there seems like a lot to learn, not quite sure how to tackle a run so... broad.

Thanks - haha the intro today seemed quite full on!

Yup - gen med was great, basically split into two halves a bit like CR/CVPD. The neuro/rheum half is basically OP clinics with a few odd things thrown in (some endocrine, infectious disease, and diabetes - the diabetes clinic is actually quite cool, you see a patient on your own take a full history and exam, and then dictate the letter back to the GP). Only a rheum case this year, no neuro thankfully, so quite cruisy.

The gen med half on the other hand is very busy - three bedsides a week where you cover all the systems (GI/neuro/cardio/resp) and not to mention ward rounds that take a few hours and at least one acute day per week (or weekend if you're unlucky). As long as you see heaps on these days - the main stuff to know well is resp (PE/COPD/asthma etc), cardio (ACS), and stroke/TIA. You'll get a handy list of conditions in the run booklet which is helpful.

I thought the OSCE was quite good but there were a few odd stations (it's 14 stations I think?), but the CIA this year was hard since no one expected a new case for this year (it's a written test basically asking for a DDx, then investigations, and work-up/management etc). Know your CXRs and ECGs! The MCQ is fine, repeat of past questions you can grab off TIs from last year :)

EDIT: gen med half also has TWO hand written case histories which was not a fun time as you can imagine. Thankfully, no discussions :)
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
It would be so much easier to start properly getting a concrete study plan for finals together if I didn't have an ethics essay and Māori case presentation to write, and four blimmin' vertical module exams coming up (not to mention the Māori OSCE)...

And if I'd spent the last week doing useful things, rather than devouring the stack of 12 Star Wars novels which were delivered during the whole-class teaching week :p

How is everyone else organising the insane volumes of finals study materials? Between Step 2 First Aid, Tripp notes, notes from TIs, my study notes for each run, the med school's resources, textbooks, etc... it's proving difficult to strike a balance between using enough resources to cover the insanely broad scope of 5th year finals, and limiting the number of resources for the sake of efficiency/not tying myself in knots!
 

quail

Registrar
Lol I'm doing my ethics essay now because I haven't started any finals study at all and I don't want to have to do it later (it might seem early but based on reading what I have so far I'm pretty sure it is still going to take some time!). Maori OSCE won't take much practice tbh (unless it's an expl planning, but even then should be straightforward), and the presentation just means you have to find a patient.

Pretty sure we're in the same boat re runs? I'm going to spend 2 weeks on paeds, psych, and O&G when I'm on each of those attachments - one for learning first aid and the second for nailing the osces (particular expl and planning stations) and then spend almost all the rest on medical systems - 1 week for cardio, resp, neuro etc and do the osces in those weeks as well.

Doubt I'm going to use textbooks at all*, I'm using first aid for knowledge and blue book for MCQs. Simple is better I reckon, and then when I run out of MCQs I find more online and do BMJ.

*except Talley O'Connor, haha still can't remember all the causes of clubbing
 

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