Medicine at Monash questions

[Zien]

I joined the forum a few days ago in hopes of finding answers to a myriad of questions I had about medicine, but more specifically at Monash. I did find answers to some of the questions I had, but for the rest I could find partial or no answers at all. I know, as a soon-to-be Year 11, that the circumstances may and are likely to change in the future, but grasping a general idea is my aim. Answers to any questions below would be very helpful.

1) From what I understand, a good raw UMAT score of ~180 and a solid VCE ENTER of 98-99+ is needed along with the central focus on interviews is needed to get into Monash Medicine. Is this generally true? Or are these just some special exceptions I happen to run across.

2) As to the nature of the Themes involved during the 5 year course, it is briefly outlined here at http://www.monash.edu.my/Medicine/mbbs.html. Although it does give me the faintest ideas of what is involved each year, the website does "sugar-coat it", for lack of a better expression, as to what they really do. Do these theme descriptions accurately reflect what Med students really study/do in the course or is it different?

3) After graduating from the 5 year MBBS, let's say I want to do a specialist field such as Anethesia, Internal Medicine or Radiology. Are there any links for me to find out extra information to these topics? This is because I can't seem to find any relevant information on them.


There are, of course, many other questions I have, but these are the main ones. Thanks.

Edit: Oh yes, I forgot. If this was posted in the wrong section, I apologise and ask for the moderators to move it to the relevant section. Thank you.

 

[Jono]

1) From what I understand, a good raw UMAT score of ~180 and a solid VCE ENTER of 98-99+ is needed along with the central focus on interviews is needed to get into Monash Medicine. Is this generally true? Or are these just some special exceptions I happen to run across.

It's easier to get in with a bonded place, an ERC place or a dean's rural list place. For normal hecs though that's basically right.

2) As to the nature of the Themes involved during the 5 year course, it is briefly outlined here at http://www.monash.edu.my/Medicine/mbbs.html. Although it does give me the faintest ideas of what is involved each year, the website does "sugar-coat it", for lack of a better expression, as to what they really do. Do these theme descriptions accurately reflect what Med students really study/do in the course or is it different?

That site is a pretty accurate description of what you do. So in first and second year there is lots of basic sciences: lectures, tutorials etc, usually with an attempt to have a 'real world focus' on it all. The second paragraph of that link has first/second year spot on.

third fourth and fifth year are spent in hospitals following doctors around. You go on their rounds to see patients, they give you tutorials and you just sort of learn medicine through osmosis by being around the hospitals. You do different things each year as mentioned in the link you provided.

3) After graduating from the 5 year MBBS, let's say I want to do a specialist field such as Anethesia, Internal Medicine or Radiology. Are there any links for me to find out extra information to these topics? This is because I can't seem to find any relevant information on them.

the way it works is you first become an intern and then a resident which takes 2 or 3 years. You then apply for a training program for the specialty of your choice. You then work (paid) in that speciality as a registrar for 4 or 5 years until you finish and are then called a consultant.

so 5 years of med school + 2/3 years of intern and then 4/5 years of registrar

Some specialties are competitive to get into, some are not. Some pay well, some pay less well. Some involve lots of after hours work, some are 9-5 type stuff. Some the training is longer, some the training is shorter. This is all stuff you can learn about once you're in medical school. It's definitely not something to worry about now.

The people who accredit the specialists in their certain field are called "colleges". There is a list of colleges here: http://www.amc.org.au/index.php/ar/rms/specialties

each has a website, so you can google it. A lot of the specialities you would know come under the racp (royal aust college of physicians) or the racs (royal australian college of surgeons), which is a sort of banner group for all of these different specialities like internal medicine.

 

[Zien]

Thank you for the reply. Just further confirming what you said:

- For the third/fourth/fifth year, would there be any lectures similar to those in the first and second year? Or is it full time following doctors around and absorbing the information with personal experience.

- What happens when you become an intern and then a resident? Do you apply to a place and study under the tutalage of the specialist doctor you are aiming to become or?

 

[Jono]

1) there are some lectures... in third year we had 2 lectures a week.

2) yep, that's basically it.

 

[gentleboy]

THIS YEAR "MONASH MEDICINE HAD HIGHEST PARTICIPANTS

2300 STUDENTS HAVE MONASH MEDICINE AS FIRST PREFERANCE.

THIS MEANS ONLY ONLY THING.

99% or better IN VCE

98% IN UMAT

and SOLID INTERVIEW

Else no chance.

(Remeber out of around 300 sheets only around 200 are avalialble, Also there will be heaps of students from Interstate with 99% score. So any one with less than 99% VCE Plus less than 98% in UMAT Scores,CHANCES ARE EXCEPTIONALLY LOW)

 

[Zien]

Could you provide some links from a reputable source of information to substantiate your figures?

I mean, people with scores of 95.xx+ could put Monash Medicine in hopes of getting an interview from their UMAT scores (which doesn't necessarily have to be 98%). It doesn't mean that 2300 students that applied have scores 99% VCE/interstate scores or 98% UMAT scores. I'm led to believe that the selection process for Monash Medicine goes like this: UMAT sifting --> Shortlist of students that passed the UMAT sifting and Interview --> Check the ENTER to see if the student did well enough in VCE years.

 

[Kapinny]

dont think that kids sources are credible, my friend got into monash last year with like 95 ENTER and 70 umat unboned.

 

[Zien]

@Kapinny: That must be one of the rare exceptions I guess. Especially with the UMAT, I'm surprised he got through. His raw score must have been in the 180s to get offered an interview despite his percentile, and his interview must have been top-notch to get accepted with an ENTER of 95.

Just to clarify between the differences of bonded and unbonded: CSP bonded is for students that have a financial-social difficulty background and CSP unbonded are for those that do not.. right? I'm not really sure as to what exactly it infers when it says bonded or unbonded. And I'm guessing the ERC and Deans Rural are for students in the countryside areas so, I'm guessing, education standards are lower so the "bar" is set lower for them as well.

 

[Jono]

CHANCES ARE EXCEPTIONALLY LOW)

All reputable sources have shown that monash does not place a heavy focus on the ENTER score. That has always been the same and it won't change this year.

 

[vexx]

All reputable sources have shown that monash does not place a heavy focus on the ENTER score. That has always been the same and it won't change this year.

i spoke to monash, true it is worth only 25%, but they said you generally need enter in the high 90's to be accepted, where 90% get above 99.

 

[Jono]

i spoke to monash, true it is worth only 25%, but they said you generally need enter in the high 90's to be accepted, where 90% get above 99.

monash have never released their formula.... so i'm not sure how you can say that with any confidence.

 

[Zien]

I also spoke with Monash barely half a year ago and the representative also mentioned that, along with a solid UMAT, high 90s is heavily recommended to consider applying to Monash for medicine. However, they didn't mention any of the weighting percentages of being accepted with UMAT:Interview:ENTER. Nor did he stress the Interview being one of the most important criteria for being successful, which confuses me when I compare it to what Monash hopefuls/students imply on MSO.

However, the ENTER scores of 99.xx is quite daunting. Then again, I've yet to start Year 11 to find out what a 3/4 course, hopefully I'll get my goal study score for it.

 

[vexx]

i have an email from them saying that high 90's is usually required, but its possible to get in with lower, but they don't accept anyone with below 90. which is assuming that the lower scores are rural/possibly bonded.

To be a successful candidate for the undergraduate MBBS program at Monash University, Clayton campus, you will need to have a high study score of at least 35 in English (ESL) or 30 in both English and Chemistry, as well as a total ENTER score in the high 90's. We will not consider anyone with an ENTER (or it's equivalent) below 90.

they told me over the phone about the percentages but in the long email which covers everything that i got from the head admission person, it had

Once you have applied through VTAC and have completed your UMAT, if your score is above the required level then we may offer you an interview.

Monash University has a 3 stage selection process for undergraduate medicine at Clayton:
1. UMAT
2. Interview
3. ENTER

Only if you do well in all three stages of the selection process (UMAT, ENTER and interview) may we consider you for a place. The interview is weighted the heaviest.

yeah. call them if you want proof

 

[avid]

i have an email from them saying that high 90's is usually required, but its possible to get in with lower, but they don't accept anyone with below 90. which is assuming that the lower scores are rural/possibly bonded.




they told me over the phone about the percentages but in the long email which covers everything that i got from the head admission person, it had


yeah. call them if you want proof

Vexx, I have a friend who got 88 at monash with me. ive heard of someone with 80 (possibly). So i think rural people can be below 90.

 

[vexx]

Vexx, I have a friend who got 88 at monash with me. ive heard of someone with 80 (possibly). So i think rural people can be below 90.

^ maybe it's changed? how long ago was this?
how strange... but it was clearly stated that even rural or not, no less than 90... as nonrurals generally need high 90's..

 

[Jono]

they told me over the phone about the percentages

All the other stuff you said is correct, but the percentages is BS.

Either a) the person on the phone didn't know and was guessing, or b) that person has signed a confidentiality clause and is legally obliged not to disclose any information regarding the formula used to accept applicants.

The rest was definitely a nice summary though.

 

[jlimster]

Just to clarify between the differences of bonded and unbonded: CSP bonded is for students that have a financial-social difficulty background and CSP unbonded are for those that do not.. right? I'm not really sure as to what exactly it infers when it says bonded or unbonded. And I'm guessing the ERC and Deans Rural are for students in the countryside areas so, I'm guessing, education standards are lower so the "bar" is set lower for them as well.

the difference between bonded and unbonded is that ok unbonded is just like a normal place in any course, u study, u finish the 5 years and u graduate.

a bonded place is a place that the government has created and if u accept the place, u have to sign a contract stating that after u finish training, u'll work in a place of 'workplace shortage'. this doesnt necessarily have to be a rural area but for eg. u become a gp ur prob 99% going to have to go to a regional or rural area. while if u did a specialty like opthalmalogy or smthing that is u could say more rarer or of less specialists, than u prob could work closer to the city.

the entire length of how long u have to give bk i'm not sure but i think its the same length as ur training - u can reduce it by doing things like doing ur training in a rural area. the thing about bonded its a scheme created so that more doctors will end up working (at least for awhile) where theres a shortage and usually the standard of entry is lower becoz of the whole giving bk service and less ppl apply for it. if ur serious about doing med u should apply for both, coz if u make it to unbonded they'll give u that b4 bonded and if u just make a bonded place it can be unbonded b4 the term starts if other ppl reject or defer their unbonded place and those places open up. that was long...

theres a slight difference between erc and dean's list in that, erc is like a cohort in the entire year which includes unbonded, bonded and rural scholarship places where in the third year, when u do placement in the hospital ur campus will move to the gippsland campus and u'll do ur placement in the surrounding rural hospitals. anyone can apply for erc coz its like sayin ur interested in working in rural but they obviously give preference to those who lived in rural areas.

dean's list = only those who live in rural area for more than 5 years

the rural bonded scholarship i mentioned is like bonded in that u have to return service to a government designated area but unlike bonded it Has to be in Rural area and the gov gives u money every year of ur studies.

hope that helps

 

[Jono]

the rural bonded scholarship i mentioned is like bonded in that u have to return service to a government designated area but unlike bonded it Has to be in Rural area and the gov gives u money every year of ur studies.

And with the rural bonded scholarship it is something you chose to do once you already have a CSP spot. You apply for it now but you can chose to accept or not accept once you have a CSP spot. It's your choice.

Unlike BMP where it's a separate course code and you get a BMP offer if you don't get a CSP spot. BMP is a spot you'd only accept if you couldn't get a CSP spot. Whereas MRBS gives you lots and lots of money so people volunteer for it.

 

[Zien]

That really helps explain the bonded and unbonded-related stuff. Thanks a lot.

Another quick question: Does Monash use UMAT Raw scores or pecentiles when they are creating a shortlist of students that passed the UMAT stage and offered an interview. Or do they use both? I ask this because I saw, in one of the sticky threads, that the Monash used Raw scores. However, from what one of my friend's sister, she only knows the percentage score she got for UMAT? I'm quite confused.

Oh and one more thing. My friend and I (the same friend whose sister is applying to Monash for Med) are planning to pull in another medicine-interested person for the UMAT prep courses which cost $450 in total, $150 if we split the cost. Are these actually beneficial? Or do they just leech money off those that wants to do really well, for the lack of a better metaphor.

 

[vexx]

zien, again from my email

Since 2007 we have been using a new scoring system called the *OVERALL* score. You will have this *Overall* score shown on your personal results sheet, which is sent to you. This year the cut off score was 61, but please know that we will interview the top 600 UMAT scoring students for the undergraduate MBBS course at Monash University, Clayton.

also, with the UMAT courses, i've heard good things from them, but it really depends. once you do it, you see your weekness, then can spam prac exams in those sections which will raises your score. worth it IMO, i'm doing it next year.

&from the email, "We recommend getting the practice questions and exams from ACER. They are available at a cost and are very worthwhile."

so i think just getting prac exams can be just as helpful...