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Speciality Training: Anaesthesiology Questions and Discussion

Medivac

Member
I am getting mixed answers off the internet, some sites say 4 and some say 6 so what is it in Australia? Also, do you get paid while specializing?
Anesthesiology seems really simple but is that true?
I am not interested in doing it because it is simple, I haven't even started my undergrad but I'm just curious [they earn a lot].
 

Lacerum

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
Anaesthetics training in Australia (ANZCA) is 5 years. You most certainly get paid whilst training - you are salaried as a registrar in the hospital where you are completing your training.

There is no specialty that is objectively simple. Trainees work hard and study for exams with high failure rates, just like in many other specialty colleges. If you have a flair for physiology and pharmacology, then subjectively it may turn out to be simpler for you than others. At this stage though, any perception of simplicity is from a lack of insight. It's a hands on specialty with the potential for a good lifestyle - these generally remunerate well.

2013 training program — ANZCA
 

forevafrensbear

Regular Member
I am not interested in doing it because it is simple, I haven't even started my undergrad but I'm just curious [they earn a lot].

The answers are on the college website.

Probably not the first speciality I'd pick if money was your primary objective (what's your definition of a lot?) Heck, I used to think $60k a year was a lot. Actually, medicine would be far from the first speciality I'd pick - given that nobody knows whether by the time you finish medical school, got into a training program, finished training program - what the job prospects or income would be like. And whether you managed to fill 1.0 FTE.

Program overview — ANZCA

Almost all colleges have an overview of their training requirements and program on their website.

However, my take is:
At least 2 years (104 weeks) experience BEFORE being considered for selection. This may in reality be longer - not everyone gets in PGY3.

26 weeks introductory training, 78 weeks basic training, 104 weeks advanced training and 52 weeks provisional fellowship training.

So the answer is: 5 years of training in the college (at a minimum) but you can only enter PGY3 which means that should you go through as fast as humanely possible, you will be FANZCA at PGY 8.
 

n33b

FIRST!!!
The answers are on the college website.

Probably not the first speciality I'd pick if money was your primary objective (what's your definition of a lot?) Heck, I used to think $60k a year was a lot. Actually, medicine would be far from the first speciality I'd pick - given that nobody knows whether by the time you finish medical school, got into a training program, finished training program - what the job prospects or income would be like. And whether you managed to fill 1.0 FTE.

Just wondering, do you know how their pay compares to other specialists like GPs, emergency doctors and physicians? I would think that in general surgeons get paid the most, but not sure how other specialists compare. Also, do you think it is an in-demand speciality?
 

forevafrensbear

Regular Member
Speciality salaries are:
1. Not something I am entirely privy to, nor enquire about. Even within my own speciality. It is considered impolite in some circles. And is none of my business. We are not allowed to collude or price-fix.
2. Public Award salaries can be found on the relevant state AMA or other industrial sites. I will refer you there for a benchmark. e.g. for victoria -http://amavic.com.au/page/Specialis..._a_specialist_in_a_Victorian_Public_Hospital/

You will need to log-in.

In the public sector, everyone is generally on an equal footing. In the private sector, it depends on a multitude of factors.

As for demand: Health Workforce 2025 | Health Workforce Australia
I will refer to the third report for want of any other data.
 
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n33b

FIRST!!!
Thanks for that forevafrens. It is difficult to compare the incomes of different specialities due to the reasons you've pointed out, which is somewhat unfortunate.

@ lix, yeah I agree. I very much doubt that the OP would have a comprehensive idea of what it's like to be an anaesthetist.
 

OhSoSwift

Member
The answers are on the college website.

Probably not the first speciality I'd pick if money was your primary objective (what's your definition of a lot?) Heck, I used to think $60k a year was a lot. Actually, medicine would be far from the first speciality I'd pick - given that nobody knows whether by the time you finish medical school, got into a training program, finished training program - what the job prospects or income would be like. And whether you managed to fill 1.0 FTE.

Program overview — ANZCA

Almost all colleges have an overview of their training requirements and program on their website.

However, my take is:
At least 2 years (104 weeks) experience BEFORE being considered for selection. This may in reality be longer - not everyone gets in PGY3.

26 weeks introductory training, 78 weeks basic training, 104 weeks advanced training and 52 weeks provisional fellowship training.

So the answer is: 5 years of training in the college (at a minimum) but you can only enter PGY3 which means that should you go through as fast as humanely possible, you will be FANZCA at PGY 8.


what would be your first specialty to pick for money?
 

Kiwiology

MSO Lawyer
One of my professional contacts is a FANZCA and I was good friends with an anaesthetic reg for quite a while, he went up to FNQ to work for one of the primary helicopter retrieval services and must have gotten lost or something, haven't heard from him in yonks.

No mate, anaesthesia is not simple, to say so is well, I could say you have an absolute lack of insight and extreme naivety, but of course you do, you are not an anaesthetist and probably know little about what they actually do. Anyway ... I won't labour on about it because that'd be a bit rude of me. Is filling a syringe with some medicine to render somebody unconscious (there are lots of them) "easy"? Yes. From a psychomotor perspective, it's piece of piss. But, anaesthesia =/= general anaesthesia and anaesthetists =/= GA bolus givers! To say that (which, TBH, it's not an unreasonable assumption, it's the only time the vast majority of people will have, or know of somebody who has, interaction with an anaesthetist) would be like saying a GP just write Rx for the sniffles (which as an aside, I hear paracetabenzofruseamyocin or whatever that was is pretty good, look it up, good for a chuckle) or an RN is a bedpan changer or beholden to the hand of the doc, or the paramedics are just ambulance drviers ...

Anaesthesia encompasses not only general anaesthesia and all the monitoring and such going along with it (you know, once the patient is unconscious and you shoved an LMA down their gob, they need to be monitored and such until they're awake! ... which in itself can be incredibly complex; somebody who is old and sick and has an ASA grading of like 9 (look, I know the most is what, 4 or 5, but they might be really sick OK? It's a thing, because I made it up, right now! :p) is going to be very different than somebody who is young and healthy and such) but off the top of my head, can and does including things like pain management (including chronic pain service/clinics in some areas), working with the OBGYNs in L&D and theatre, attending trauma and MET/blue calls ... and other things with patients across the entire lifespan and "sickspan" from the very young and healthy to the very young and very sick to the old and healthy to the old and sick.

You need to be able to very quickly built a rapport and gain the trust of somebody because hey in a minute or two they need to consent to you giving them drugs to render them unconscious and likely unable to move as well, or to shove an epidural into their spine and one of the side effects of which is eh, maybe ending up paralysed, or to one of the above or something along the same lines to their friend or family member perhaps in quite an acute circumstance. You also need to be able to work and play with others well because you well, work with a lot of other docs and non-docs too.

I can't answer what they get paid in Australia, but it's likely one of the more lucrative private specialities anyway. If you are interested in doing a speciality for the money, please do not, and please stay away from anaesthesia as a speciality, lots, the most, mostestness, the most possible, like big time lots ... not even fake news. I don't know anybody who would want their anaesthetist to be the guy who was "in it for the money" ...

Also consider unless you are able to exit the public system totally that even as a Consultant, there's likely to be a not insignificant component of nights, weekends and on-call work.

Oh, and no I'm not a bloody recruiting poster for ANZCA ... I just like anaesthesia a wee bit. Hope that helps.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
^My favorite part of this entire thread is that you're responding to an OP from January 2013 :p
 
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Kiwilander

Regular Member
Its been many years since I've been on this forum. Joined in 2nd year med school. And now in my 3rd year of anaesthetic training! If any unresolved questions, happy to assist!
 
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Kiwiology

MSO Lawyer
Its been many years since I've been on this forum. Joined in 2nd year med school. And now in my 3rd year of anaesthetic training! If any unresolved questions, happy to assist!

Good on you mate :)

I was having a squiz at what rosters look like for my specialities of interest as I'm one of these "mature" students and at least for NoRTH (Auckland DHBs) the anaes regs seem to quite a bit of night work and call (as I alluded to above) so presumably you can you start cases on your own for emergencies and such while the boss gets out of bed and comes in?

In your hospital does anaesthesia cover trauma calls? Increasingly I've seen this not happen and either (a) the ICU Registrar will attend (what can I say? I only know people at those glass tower hospitals which have CICM trainees :p), or (b) it is expected of ED medical personnel to perform this function (not unreasonable in ... mm, choosing my words carefully here ... *most* circumstances).
 

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OhSoSwift

Member
im currently in year 12 studying chemistry, math, english, health and business in victoria. im aspiring to become an anaesthetist through biomedicine undergraduate then go into post graduate medicine and go from there. can someone please tell me the process after post grad medicine or if there is a better way? thank you.
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
Undergraduate entry medicine is the same as what you're referring to as 'post graduate medicine' (graduate entry). Both of them give you a medical degree (whether it's labelled an MBBS, BMed, MBChB, MD or whatever) - you don't need to do both.

Once you've done your primary medical degree - whether straight after highschool (undergrad entry) or a university degree (graduate entry) - you start working as a junior doctor called a 'house officer'. After a couple of years, you can start applying for specialty training programmes, such as anaesthetics, general practice, the surgical specialties, etc. Assuming you still wanted to be an anaesthetist by the time you're eligible to apply to the training pathway (so after 4-6 years of medical school and usually 2-4ish years as a house officer), you're then looking at at least another 5 years (I think anaesthetics is a minimum of 5?) as a registrar training specifically to become an anaesthetist.

That's a bit of a simplification, and many people don't do all of it in the theoretical minimum time. And most people don't wind up doing the specialty they went into medical school wanting to do. For now, just focus on getting into medical school, and go from there.
 

OhSoSwift

Member
Undergraduate entry medicine is the same as what you're referring to as 'post graduate medicine' (graduate entry). Both of them give you a medical degree (whether it's labelled an MBBS, BMed, MBChB, MD or whatever) - you don't need to do both.

Once you've done your primary medical degree - whether straight after highschool (undergrad entry) or a university degree (graduate entry) - you start working as a junior doctor called a 'house officer'. After a couple of years, you can start applying for specialty training programmes, such as anaesthetics, general practice, the surgical specialties, etc. Assuming you still wanted to be an anaesthetist by the time you're eligible to apply to the training pathway (so after 4-6 years of medical school and usually 2-4ish years as a house officer), you're then looking at at least another 5 years (I think anaesthetics is a minimum of 5?) as a registrar training specifically to become an anaesthetist.

That's a bit of a simplification, and many people don't do all of it in the theoretical minimum time. And most people don't wind up doing the specialty they went into medical school wanting to do. For now, just focus on getting into medical school, and go from there.

so lets say i do undergrad biomed then move onto post grad med 4 years later, on average how many years will i be looking at to be a anaesthetist?
 

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