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Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Well written article indeed! Couldn't have said pitfall #1 and #2 better myself. I would honestly probably have been a pitfall #3 kinda guy though.
My only disagreement with your #3 is for students who achieved alright UMAT scores but had *borderline* ATARs in South Aus. (May also be applicable elsewhere idrk). As one can choose to repeat a subject (just one would do the trick) at a "disadvantaged" school allowing them to gain 5 bonus points which are applicable to Medicine entrance at Adelaide/Flinders. The effect of these bonus points;
Raise a 98.15 ATAR to 99.95
Raise a 98.00 ATAR to 99.90
This puts the given student in a far better position when competing for a position at flinders (and to a lesser extent at Adelaide)
Im unaware how none SA universities view disadvantaged school bonus points so this is really only of benefit to students who are deadset in studying at an SA university for whatever reason.

But like idk? Thoughts?

While this is a useful thing for South Australians to consider when applying (i.e. if you qualify, don't miss out on the bonus points), you may want to consider the fact that despite these disadvantaged schools getting bonus points you *still* don't see anyone in the Adelaide medicine cohort from these schools (other than those applying through the rural/ATSI pathways). While it may be possible for you to boost your ATAR as a result, I would argue that if you managed to get a 98.15 ATAR at school that you'd be able to get a first year GPA of 7.0 if you tried anywhere near as hard in uni as you did in year 12 - and furthermore, you'd be one year of study towards a backup career in case you didn't score great in UMAT.


(**the below loophole is no longer in existence and is retained for archive purposes**)
However, if you absolutely must remain in South Australia (goodness knows why you would want to), then the other universities that offer medicine are no longer a factor in this, in which case, the above would be a reasonable loophole to use... except that, in my opinion, there is a better one that @Green Vuvuzela has told me about that is better in pretty much every way:

Context: Flinders University's graduate entry medicine program has 75% of it's quota set aside for Flinders University students and 25% for graduate applicants outside the university. (These are in addition to the places set aside for Flinders provisional medicine for year 12s who receive 99.90). (Source: http://www.flinders.edu.au/medicine...e/documents/admission/MD_Admissions_Guide.pdf)

Flinders will use the GPA and GAMSAT to rank students, like any other graduate entry university. However, Flinders uses the GPA from a bachelor's degree for entry. What you can do is complete an undergraduate degree anywhere (such as the University of Adelaide - where you can also apply for tertiary transfer to the Adelaide medical program each year, though the number of people who get into it this way is rather trivial) do a 6 month certificate at Flinders (and thus you will qualify as a Flinders student) and then apply within the 75% Flinders quota using your bachelor's GPA from that other university. The 75% Flinders quota has much, much lower GPA and GAMSAT cutoffs for entry compared to pretty much every other graduate entry medical school out there (which already are arguably much easier to gain entry to than the undergraduate medical programs). Of course, if you are already doing your undergraduate degree at Flinders then you don't need to do that 6 month certificate.

This pathway also allows you to progress your career by virtue of the fact that you start working towards your completed bachelor's degree rather than waste a whole year sitting some year 12 subject again.
 
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Oops

Member
Very true with the GPA 7.0, Only issue with the loophole outlined is you would only have access to ~39/86 places (not the 75% becuase they further reserve 25 places for Medical/Health/Paramedic science for their own uni). But regardless your right most likely far easier to get in that way than going after the fewer year 12 entrance places.
 

Kenny4

Member
Hi Mana, thanks for your posts in this thread, very enlightening!

It is my understanding that at Melbourne, if you have an ATAR above 99.0 and you maintain a GPA of at least 75%, they guarantee you a place in their post grad medicine course? Do you think this is a reasonable pathway into medicine?
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Hi Mana, thanks for your posts in this thread, very enlightening!

It is my understanding that at Melbourne, if you have an ATAR above 99.0 and you maintain a GPA of at least 75%, they guarantee you a place in their post grad medicine course? Do you think this is a reasonable pathway into medicine?

They don't guarantee you a place in their post-grad medicine course, they guarantee that you will get an INTERVIEW for their post-grad medicine course. See Graduate course guarantees for Chancellor's Scholars : Future Students for more details. You can fail this interview just like any other entrance interview and then you'll have used three years of study at uni for a useless degree.

It's probably the pathway I would be least keen to take into medicine given that Melbourne's generalist degrees don't really give you much scope for a career in and of themselves and rely highly on you getting into a post-bachelor's course.

I would say to do a degree that you can use that isn't reliant on doing another degree to get somewhere.
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
It is my understanding that at Melbourne, if you have an ATAR above 99.0 and you maintain a GPA of at least 75%, they guarantee you a place in their post grad medicine course? Do you think this is a reasonable pathway into medicine?

Beware that if you do well in the interview and get a place with this pathway it's full-fee MD at ~63k/year. Together with the 3 undergrad years, close to 300k total.
 

Kenny4

Member
I can't find the cost of doing the MD course at Monash as a graduate entry - one would think they would just link to the fees from the course page, but they don't. Is it a similar to the cost of the MD course at Melbourne?
 

heart

Member
Monash doesn't have domestic FFP from what I know. Most postgrad med courses if I'm not mistaken come to around 40k in HECS.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
I can't find the cost of doing the MD course at Monash as a graduate entry - one would think they would just link to the fees from the course page, but they don't. Is it a similar to the cost of the MD course at Melbourne?
The course fees are listed under both entries of the medical program, and come to approximately $10596 per academic year. Monash does not offer FFP - only CSP and BMP places.
 

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A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
I can't find the cost of doing the MD course at Monash as a graduate entry - one would think they would just link to the fees from the course page, but they don't. Is it a similar to the cost of the MD course at Melbourne?

FYI not all MD places at Melb are full-fee (about half CSP half FFP I think), but the 99.0 "guaranteed" pathway leads only to FFP.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
FYI not all MD places at Melb are full-fee (about half CSP half FFP I think), but the 99.0 "guaranteed" pathway leads only to FFP.

Am unsure about this - there are 255 CSP places and 89 full fee (both Domestic and International combined) at the Melbourne MD; from my understanding around 30 CSP places are set aside for Chancellor's pathway students (99.90+), and of course the rest would be in the running (but not guaranteed) for FFP.
 
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A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
... leaving around 155 CSP places for the Chancellor's pathway.

True I wasn't sure about Melb's CSP/FFP ratio, just said half & half mainly to give Kenny the idea it's a mix, not all FFP as he may have thought.

However I don't think 155 CSP places for Chancellor's pathway is possible. Aus-wide there are around 300 each year with 99.90+ and surely not more than half of them take the Chancellor's pathway? (I'm not counting the 99.0 pathway as it leads to FFP)
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
True I wasn't sure about Melb's CSP/FFP ratio, just said half & half mainly to give Kenny the idea it's a mix, not all FFP as he may have thought.

However I don't think 155 CSP places for Chancellor's pathway is possible. Aus-wide there are around 300 each year with 99.90+ and surely not more than half of them take the Chancellor's pathway? (I'm not counting the 99.0 pathway as it leads to FFP)
Yes, have edited post with new information - I am told by @Perplex and @pi that it's actually around 30 CSP places.
 

heart

Member
Is there a source for this 30 CSP number or is it based on how many chancellors approximately got in each year just curious?
 
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dellehone

Lurker
Hey Mana, awesome posts!
I have a little question that I'm hoping to get some advice on. :D

I graduated from high school in 2015 and started a Bachelor of Physio in 2016. However, not long into the course I realised that physio wasn't for me- in that I disliked the components of the course that were physio focused, but I enjoyed those that were more med focused. I want to apply for med at the end of this year (commencing 2018) but I've never done the UMAT before. I am seriously considering doing a gap year this year to really concentrate on UMAT and maybe gain some medical experience.

Would you advise against taking an intermission to focus on UMAT? It does sound an awful lot like what you've termed as pitfall 3.

My academic results have been good so far. I have a 99.85 atar from high school and 7.0 gpa from uni so right now that shouldn't be a problem. I'm more worried about the stress and lack of time if I have to maintain my gpa as well as working on doing well in the umat if I continue my course this year. I also didn't take chem in high school so my options are pretty much limited to 3 unis- UWS, UNSW and newcastle.

I know that as a non-standard, interstate applicant without the chem pre-req my chances are sketchy but if anyone has any advice at all I'd really appreciate it!
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
I know that as a non-standard, interstate applicant without the chem pre-req my chances are sketchy but if anyone has any advice at all I'd really appreciate it!

With 99.85 you could have got in Griffith's 2016 intake, maybe you weren't thinking of doing Med then?

I'm sure you don't need to take a gap year to prep for Umat as plenty of Y12 students achieve high 99s together with high Umat in the same year. In my own case I spent 3 hours each weekend for 3 months, you may need less or more but there's still 6 months to go.

As for affecting your GPA, it could be so if you later go the GAMSAT route but for non-standard undergrad it hardly matters (to you). You are eligible for WSU with your 99.85 no need to use GPA, JMP requires a modest "close-to-credit" average, UNSW will combine your Atar + 1st year + 2nd year so even if GPA drops a little you should still be around mid-99s equivalent.

You can also apply to JCU & uTas (2018 intake only) if they accept a Chem bridging course. I think uTas does, not sure about JCU.
 

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dellehone

Lurker
A1 said:
I'm sure you don't need to take a gap year to prep for Umat as plenty of Y12 students achieve high 99s together with high Umat in the same year.

Yeah unfortunately med wasn't something I really thought about back then. :((( Sigh, it's quite depressing knowing I could have gotten in but I guess the only thing I can do is keep trying from here on in :)

What kind of things did you do during those hours you prepared each week? I'm pretty nervous about the umat because I'm not sure if prep will actually reflect in a high umat.

And if you don't mind me asking why 'UNSW Med 2016 for two whole weeks'? I'm pretty curious heh :)
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
What kind of things did you do during those hours you prepared each week? I'm pretty nervous about the umat because I'm not sure if prep will actually reflect in a high umat.

Buying an expensive prep course won't guarantee a high Umat but doing some prep, whether with a paid course, paid materials or free samples, should help you perform better than without any prep. I bought the Medentry package and mostly did the timed exercises, then learned until I understood thoroughly the ones I got wrong. It's similar to reading books to build up your vocabulary with words not previously known.

Check out the good advice posts in this UMAT sub-forum. I went to Unsw last year but returned after 2 weeks due to a medical case at home.
 

Lear

Monash IV
Gold Star Winner
They don't guarantee you a place in their post-grad medicine course, they guarantee that you will get an INTERVIEW for their post-grad medicine course. See Graduate course guarantees for Chancellor's Scholars : Future Students for more details. You can fail this interview just like any other entrance interview and then you'll have used three years of study at uni for a useless degree.

It's probably the pathway I would be least keen to take into medicine given that Melbourne's generalist degrees don't really give you much scope for a career in and of themselves and rely highly on you getting into a post-bachelor's course.

I would say to do a degree that you can use that isn't reliant on doing another degree to get somewhere.

I can't believe I missed those post. It was extremely insightful!

I might be missing something but is the Chancellors program and the Guaranteed pathway the same concept?
As quoted 96 AND ABOVE
'Applicants who receive an ATAR (or notional ATAR) between 99.00 and 99.85 in Year 12 and commence and complete an undergraduate course at the University of Melbourne with a weighted average mark of 75% or higher are guaranteed an Australian fee place (for domestic students) or international fee place.'

Does this involve the same concept of being given only an interview NOT an actual place?
I find it very surprising they would not mention this on the website, almost concerning.

If it does actually *gaurantee* one a spot, would one be better off doing a 'lower tier' course such as Bachelor of Science or sticking to Biomedicine?
I believe to be eligible for this gaurantee one has to do either and I was wondering whether it matters which a person completes in order for good prospects in Medicine in the future.

Thank you
 

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