Damn I just got called out - better get back to the drawing board to reinforce my confirmation biasYou are contradicting yourself. Has it occurred to you that UWA is Singapore-recognised because it is Go8 ?
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Damn I just got called out - better get back to the drawing board to reinforce my confirmation biasYou are contradicting yourself. Has it occurred to you that UWA is Singapore-recognised because it is Go8 ?
Just my two cents:
I picked a 3+3 uni (UWA) over a 5 year undergrad (curtin) for several reasons:
- While my heart is set on medicine as a career path, I'd much rather spend the first 3 years not having to worry about actually doing medicine and being pressured by that. I'd much rather take it a bit easy in the first 3 years then hunker down during the MD. I'm not entirely sure if MD years are actually very difficult but I know that doing a normal bachelors first would allow me to do things that I wouldn't otherwise pick. For example I have the opportunity to pick up electives like Korean because why not haha
- Depending on where you want to end up in the world, foreign accreditation of your course is important. In my particular case Curtin isn't recognised in Singapore whereas UWA is. These are small but nonetheless consequential factors that you might need to account for should you want to move countries.
- The difference between the MD and the MBBS is also that one is a bachelors whereas one is a masters, which includes a mandatory research component. I'm not sure about whether or not this is also included in 5 year courses but I just found it a little easier to know that sometime in the future I will have the opportunity to do research as part of the course rather than doing it on top of the coursework. Looked like a little less of a hassle if that's what I'm interested in.
- In my particular case, UWA's course is years old at this point while Curtin's is relatively new with no actual graduates just yet. Not to say that it's bad in any way, but it also does mean that wrinkles do need to be ironed out and things need to established first. This just takes time.
- Parents needed the go8 flex hehe xd (but seriously I'd rather not have to deal with the constant lamentations from my parents even though I've totally explained that it's completely meaningless)
- UWA currently has clinical placements in all the major hospitals whereas Curtin noticably is missing Sir Charles Gairdner which may or may not impact what you have at your disposal. I think Curtin aims also get placements there but nothing has been ironed out yet. For context, Sir Charles Gairdner is one of the 3? or maybe 4 large tertiary hospitals in Perth
- Curtin is explicit focuses on general practice and rural/remote medicine. Not saying that this bad or you have to go into something like this when you graduate (they can't oblige you to do anything) but it also means that this focus takes up time that could be dedicated at other things.
There obviously very good reasons to pick shorter degrees as well, with the big ones being one year less of uni means one year more of actually progressing and earning a real salary. And also a year less of debt.
Disclaimer - I haven't even started the MD portion so I can't even verify half the things that I claim in this (A1 can probably prove/disprove some things) so honestly take it with a fat grain of salt but think about things like that. Do I want to test out other things for fun? Do I want to move to different countries and if so which ones? Do I want to do research as part of coursework or just do it on top of whatever you are already doing? Do you know which clinical placements each university has?
Also notice that I did not once mention the need for prestige or alumni connections (unless it's for the parents hehe).
- What do you mean exactly by 'taking it easier'? Sure, as one would imagine, to cover similar content in the 5-year degree vs the 6-year degree it would be pretty full on. But I doubt it would not be that considerably easier just because of that extra year. And you said 'I'd much rather spend the first 3 years not having to worry about actually doing medicine and being pressured by that.'. What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying that the first 3 years don't really matter?
- Btw Monash is a Go8 uni which has a 5-year MD course
- Hmmm as far as I've heard there are still research components in the 6-year course (according to some friends who took it), but obviously these may not be as major as the ones in the MD
- I didn't know that the 5-year MD was a new course. From what it sounds like on Monash's website, it's been going for quite a while now?
- TBH I would actually prefer rural placements over going to major hospitals in the CBD. From what I've heard is that you basically get no clinical experience in large hospitals because all the other staff are fighting for positions due to large competition. Doesn't sound ideal to me...
If you are from victoria then yea why go for anything other than Monash? if you aren't from Vic, good luck getting into Monash.Thanks for the comments. Some of them I would like to discuss further though:
- What do you mean exactly by 'taking it easier'? Sure, as one would imagine, to cover similar content in the 5-year degree vs the 6-year degree it would be pretty full on. But I doubt it would not be that considerably easier just because of that extra year. And you said 'I'd much rather spend the first 3 years not having to worry about actually doing medicine and being pressured by that.'. What exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying that the first 3 years don't really matter?
- Btw Monash is a Go8 uni which has a 5-year MD course
- Hmmm as far as I've heard there are still research components in the 6-year course (according to some friends who took it), but obviously these may not be as major as the ones in the MD
- I didn't know that the 5-year MD was a new course. From what it sounds like on Monash's website, it's been going for quite a while now?
- TBH I would actually prefer rural placements over going to major hospitals in the CBD. From what I've heard is that you basically get no clinical experience in large hospitals because all the other staff are fighting for positions due to large competition. Doesn't sound ideal to me...
I think for me 5-year still sounds best. I will do a little more research but I guess one year more would certainly open up the options a little more (as there are many more unis with 6 year undergrad courses).
This is a topical comment for me as someone who was considering selecting a rural site for my placement next year, but will now be preferencing a metro hospital first instead. Going on a rural placement may give you more opportunities to practice procedural skills, yes, but this can come at the expense of exposure to an adequate case-mix and certain specialties. I wouldn’t want to do too many rural placements if this will come at the expense of adequate time in a metropolitan hospital.From what I've heard is that you basically get no clinical experience in large hospitals because all the other staff are fighting for positions due to large competition.
(spoiler alert none of it really matters because most doctors from your state will have gone to your state universities).
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There have been five and six-year undergraduate entry courses around longer than you've been alive. There's no discernible difference between Australian interns at the end of the day, and certainly no lives have been lost or safety compromised.Hi all, another topic I have been thinking about...
What is the objective difference between the five year (undergrad), six year (undergrad) and seven year (postgrad) courses for medicine. By objective, I am referring to the structural and content differences covered in those courses. I am not referring to a matter of preference (e.g. choosing postgrad over undergrad because it gives more time to explore other interests).
1. Considering you basically get the same recognition for completing the course (i.e. a similar degree MBBS, BMSc/MD), how is it possible that the same amount of content could be covered in a year (or two) less. Is it safe (as a doctor, who needs to save people's lives), to risk missing out on certain pieces of information by taking a shorter course?
2. Would the amount of clinical experience in hospitals therefore be limited in the shorter (five-year) course due to the need to cover the same amount of theoretical content?
3. Or is this just a money making scheme for universities (to get students to spend longer and earn more debt)?
Thanks!
Not only this but, 4 year graduate entry courses typically have much longer semesters than 5 year undergrad courses.4 year post grads which condense content from 5 year undergrads using the fact that post grad students are likely more experienced at university and mature than 1st year out of high school undergrads.
Three schools have 6-year undergrad med. We know UNSW includes a year of research, you can look up Adelaide & JCU handbooks to see their course structures.To clarify this further, the main reason that some Aus universities have an extra year of study (5-year vs 6-year) is mainly due to a research based component? However, the content covered in the courses and the clinical experience gained is still the exact same - correct?
There are actually four universities in Australia which do the six-year course for undergraduate medicine:
And five for the five-year undergraduate medicine:
- UNSW (BMed/MD, year four is an independent research year)
- UWA (3+3 direct pathway is available with selected undergraduate course and MD)
- University of Adelaide (MBBS does not have a research year - three years pre-clinical and three years clinical, final year pre-internship)
- JCU (MBBS, does not have a research year - three years pre-clinical and three years clinical, final year pre-internship)
From the summary of my research undertaken, I gather it is true that students from some of the universities with the six-year courses (namely Uni Adelaide and JCU) will gain more clinical experience than those in the five year courses. This is true given that Curtin and Uni Tas have the exact same end qualification (MBBS) and omit the pre-internship year.
- Monash (BMedSc/MD)
- JMP - UNE/UON (BMedSc/MD)
- Curtin University (MBBS, no pre-internship year)
- CSU/WSU (MD only)
- University of Tasmania (MBBS, no pre-internship year)
If you count UWA among these perhaps you should also include Griffith & Flinders.There are actually four universities in Australia which do the six-year course for undergraduate medicine
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Righto. Makes sense, but A1 suggested adding them to the list no? Obviously he/she classes it as undergrad and so... I have two contrasting opinions as to what classifies as undergrad.I see your edit to include the others. If you’re going to do so then you should make it clear UWA, Flinders, and Griffith are provisional. It’s a different pathway to undergraduate and involves completing (and needing to pass at a certain level) a whole bachelor degree before moving to the Med component. It’s not a guaranteed move from one to the other and your use of terminology is misleading and inconsistent.
If all you’re judging ‘undergraduate medicine’ on is the ability to start on the pathway straight out of high-school then UQ, USyd, UMelb, UTas BMedRes guarantee, CDU and probably others could all be lumped in that category. It’s meaningless.
Also, you missed Bond.
Righto. Makes sense, but A1 suggested adding them to the list no? Obviously he/she classes it as undergrad and so... I have two contrasting opinions as to what classifies as undergrad.
In reality they are all basically double degrees anyway, but I'll edit this list to include only the ones that have a specific passing requirement to progress to the MD component.
Also Bond doesn't count. (Unless your parents are millionaires )
Let me help with this grouping. I count a school as undergrad med when its first year undergrad students are recognised as med students in the MedDeans database.so... I have two contrasting opinions as to what classifies as undergrad.
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