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As long as you are a registered specialist OS or OMS (doesn't matter which); AND as long as you can demonstrate competence in the procedures you wish to perform (i.e. you can show you have been formally trained to do them and you have a logbook with sufficient cases) then you can get credentialed to do the same thing (practice the same scope).
It won't matter if you complete your training in the USA, South Africa, or Singapore. If you return to Australia after any of these programs (without med degree) you will be considered for the OS category not OMS (unless you have fulfilled a couple extra tick-boxes). But again, it depends on exactly what your goals are. As I've already pointed out, for most things this does not make a difference OS / OMS in Australia or NZ!
Additionally, don't forget that it would be easier to complete your degrees in the country you wish to ultimately practice in. You asked about the 6 year American OMS + MD programs; but remember if you wanted to come back to Australia and register you also now have the hurdle of sitting the AMC (international medical graduate exam!) and then will probably have to redo your internship year to get medical registration.
Well, that is just the way it is in Australia. I also am an OMS in the states, but if I come to Australia will be registered as an OS there now. Its just politics, nothing more.
While you may be able to demonstrate competence in performing the procedures that you were trained in overseas wouldn't there be regulatory/red tape issues to get through to perform the same procedures here in Australia?
Would Australian public hospitals actually take on an OS without a medical degree over an OMS who is dual qualified with a medical degree? Especially since consultant posts in any public hospital are highly sort after these days, I'd imagine there wouldn't be a shortage of OMS applying for a position. Especially with major public hospitals dealing with trauma/cancer etc.
Without a medical degree, even though you can do technically do everything you've been trained in, won't you be denied access to the medicare benefits schedule (MBS) when treating patients due to not having a medical license in Australia?
In private practice this would be an issue when you're not just using dental item numbers but charging for things like grafting/orthognathic surgery/orthodontic surgery etc. which would usually see a significant contribution of payment by the government through the MBS (not dental item numbers).
Congratulations on completing your training. I didn't realise the initial post was made over 3 years ago!
I've been reading into specialty training in the US and looking at how to go about it (as an option)
Did you complete the NBDE examinations and complete a DDS program to now work as a dentist/specialist in America?
Or are you currently working in a state where you can do specialist procedures only?
At the end of the day, if you are well trained for the job and are a person people like to work with (not someone with a chip on your shoulder who doesn’t play well with others) then I’m sure you will have just a good of a chance as anyone else.
So, to answer your question. Yes, dual qualified OMS who have FRACDS (OMS) can access some money from MBS for these procedures for private practice patients. However, I don’t think I would consider what MBS pays a “significant contribution”.
Fair point. I live in one of the smaller states where Oral Surgeons are pretty much non existent compared to the OMFS guys in town. Every dentist in town pretty much concludes that oral surgery / orthognathic surgery etc. goes to the OMFS guys due to our local training. There are only OMFS working in public hospitals and teaching at the dental schools. OS basically doesn't exist.
So I guess I may just be naive to how it actually works in Sydney and Melbourne where there are much larger numbers of both OMFS and OS and both operate in public hospitals, both get referrals from private dentists, and both work in the dental schools.
The one OS who worked and taught at the dental school and major teaching hospital many years ago basically got run out by the OMFS club and politics...
I don't think that is allowed. No different than you charging medicare for a kids filling and also billing their parent's health fund for the same thing. If you're concerned you can always contact the patient's health fund or the Health ombudsman to clarify.basically it seems like OMFS double dip into MBS + ADA dental codes to get patients a greater rebate.
Another perhaps silly question though. I thought that if you're going into hospital for treatment, the surgeon needs to perform one of the treatments listed in the MBS in order for PHI to actually pay for the hospital cost? Isn't this why patients seeing "cosmetic doctors" or plastic surgeons etc. dont' get hospital coverage when they get cosmetic procedures done in hospital? Even though plastic surgeons are credentialled with the hospital they operate out of. Eg. cosmetic rhinoplasty vs rhinoplasty for airway treatment. One would have a hospital fee thats completely uncovered and one would allow PHI to cover the hospital fee
If OS can't access the MBS, doesn't this mean their patients dont get hospital coverage? which would be a lot more than just a thousand dollars.
Again, I could be completely wrong.
Hopefully in future there will be more oral surgeons like me working in Australia to change this perception. And I'm sure that there will be in a few years now that there are new OS programs available in Australia and New Zealand; and that there is a better understanding about overseas OMS training options, and the overseas trained specialist recognition pathways.
If anyone is interested in the OMS program in Singapore there is a zoom info session coming up (25 September 2020 from 6pm to 7.30pm).
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For example
1. Would Australian public hospitals actually take on an OS without a medical degree over an OMS who is dual qualified with a medical degree? Especially since consultant posts in any public hospital are highly sort after these days, I'd imagine there wouldn't be a shortage of OMS applying for a position. Especially with major public hospitals dealing with trauma/cancer etc.
I'm of course just talking about the "newer" single degree OS grads who aren't able to register as an OMS due to graduating post-2000
2. Without a medical degree, even though you can do technically do everything you've been trained in, won't you be denied access to the medicare benefits schedule (MBS) when treating patients due to not having a medical license in Australia? In private practice this would be an issue when you're not just using dental item numbers but charging for things like grafting/orthognathic surgery/orthodontic surgery etc. which would usually see a significant contribution of payment by the government through the MBS (not dental item numbers).
I'm having trouble seeing how an OMS who trained overseas and then came back to Australia and registered as an OS would be able to perform full scope OMFS procedures without being able to access the MBS. Of course all the regular oral surgery stuff we are usually billing through the ADA item numbers won't matter.
Am I wrong in assuming you can't access the MBS? (please excuse my ignorance if so)
I just wanted to add my 2c here as a budding OMS in the near future.
The OMFS career pathway is getting more competitive and popular nowadays, in both the dental and medical field.
If you look at all the recent job postings of OMFS consultant/VMO jobs they all require both medical and dental registrations with AHPRA - regardless of whether you have been credentialed and trained overseas as an OMS.
And as for the medicare issues, it can create a lot of headaches for the hospital & private clinics as you won't have access to medicare if you don't have a medical degree. Unfortunately it does have affect the $$$ fair bit to the patient, not just hundreds but thousands of dollars.
For example - treatment under GA - "if you have appropriate Hospital cover, your fund will also pay benefits towards the costs of the anaesthetist. Generally you will receive 75% of the Medicare Schedule Fee from Medicare and the remaining 25% will be paid by your health fund."
I have colleagues who are OMFS trainees and also know a few consultants who describe the job market as not-so-good..
I just wanted to add my 2c here as a budding OMS in the near future.
The OMFS career pathway is getting more competitive and popular nowadays, in both the dental and medical field.
If you look at all the recent job postings of OMFS consultant/VMO jobs they all require both medical and dental registrations with AHPRA - regardless of whether you have been credentialed and trained overseas as an OMS.
Good question. How many first year OMS training positions are their in Australia (and New Zealand)?Hi Gogi, do you happen to know the rough numbers for applicants to the RACDS(OMS) program and how many they take each year?
I am still waiting to see where I up next year as I have applied to medicine already. Going down the med pathway, I really only have my eyes set on OMS... but I'm sure other dual qualified grads all say the same thing.
Just wanted to know roughly what my odds of actually succeeding would be.
I can confirm for QLD it is indeed 2. Not sure about the rest. Check medinav QLD health in google and find it for more information.My guess: NSW: 2, Vic: 2, QLD: 2, WA: 1, Tas: 1 = Australia total 7 per year?
I do know there are a large number of people who have invested (in vain) in completing both degrees, a medical internship year, and then a general surgery year and still don't get accepted to the OMS program every year and end up either doing another specialty altogether, or doing OMS overseas or probably applying to the DClinDent programs in Au/NZ. (exact figures of these applicants to spots ratio is probably not tracked nor published anywhere probably for good reason).
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surely there can't be that many people out there that want to do both a medical and dental degree? I can't imagine more than like 10 people wanting to do that per year
Hi Gogi, do you happen to know the rough numbers for applicants to the RACDS(OMS) program and how many they take each year?
I am still waiting to see where I up next year as I have applied to medicine already. Going down the med pathway, I really only have my eyes set on OMS... but I'm sure other dual qualified grads all say the same thing.
Just wanted to know roughly what my odds of actually succeeding would be.
On another note, surely there can't be that many people out there that want to do both a medical and dental degree? I can't imagine more than like 10 people wanting to do that per year but I'd love to know the thought process behind why so many people would do that.
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Residency Training Program | University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) College of Dentistry (Chicago OMS program is a 6-year program that "includes a Medical degree (M.D.) and a Certificate for a one-year Internship in General Surgery" and medical license registration (what an internship gives you in Australia). This should not take twice as long in Australia! ... and they make you navigate getting a med degree, internship, and obtaining a general surgery year of training all without their guidance or acceptance into the actual training program. ridiculous.
In 2018, I think it was roughly 35-40 eligible applicants who applied for the OMS program - these are applicants who have done both medicine, dentistry, general surgical experience as a medical doctor etc.
People do them mostly do pursue OMFS, i have seen the odd one who does it purely to change their careers entirely.
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