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International Students: Multiple Offers Advice Requests

Kilik

Member
I was in the same situation as you were leont, being accepted by UNSW, Monash and UTAS.

In the end I opted for Monash because it was a much better choice financially, and I honestly prefer the shorter course. True, the commute to/from the city can be quite irritating, but there are other points to take into consideration. If you choose to live on campus, you could try applying to the new halls that were just opened this year. They are kinda like mini hotel rooms with en suite kitchenettes/toilets/showers and extremely high-speed internet. Several major super markets are a 15 minute bus ride away. If you want to catch a movie or shop (major labels included), there's always Chadstone SC which is about 20 minutes away. Sure, Melbourne City is wonderful, but it's not THAT inaccessible. And what with studying and all that, I hardly think you'd want to be distracted.

Also, in Year 3, if you're lucky enough to get Alfred Hospital for your clinical placement, you could opt to live in the city as well, since most learning during the clinical years takes place in the Hospitals. Of course, that's provided you get a place there (which is something practically everybody wants). One of my seniors got posted to Dandenong Hospital, and she has to drive for over an hour everyday to get there from the city. Luck of the draw. That said, a couple of my friends who are international students are living in the city, and don't mind driving or even taking public transportation everyday to get to school. It really is up to you how you want to approach this.

I have quite alot to say about the curriculum. But I shall restrain myself. It has its ups and downs. Frankly, I get quite annoyed during some lectures, a couple of which are just simply professors that read off the slides which they will then upload for us later on. I think you need to approach university in a different way as you would high school. You will be treated like an intelligent adult and will be expected to do your own reading. It's not like high school where you will have past year papers or special cheat sheet notes prepared for you by your teachers. If anything, it's other students/seniors who you'll be relying on the most for help. Don't expect to be spoon-fed. There will be numerous books written about one subject as opposed to one textbook (unlike in high school), and you will need to choose what works best for you. Don't expect your lecturers/tutors to help you do well. In essence, Med School is tough, and there's only so much someone else can help you with.

As far as the international community and the international-local interaction goes, here's what I have to say about it. Most of the international students in Monash Med for the 2012 batch come from Singapore (about half), following which are Malaysians. They are a tight-knit community. During tutorials like CBL, which rely heavily on a class effort, you'll have plenty of time to mingle with the locals. At the end of the day, whether or not you make friends has more to do with you as a person, than you as an international student.

We have quite an enthusiastic medical society. The main body MUMUS organises many useful things like book sales, equipment sales, etc. Lectures, talks, etc. And some fun events like MedCamp, MedBall... the list goes on. We have the annual MedRevue (drama night), Med Orchestra, Med Choir, Surgical Interest Group (which organises a couple of workshops every year). Overall, the life here isn't really that dull.

Frankly, either of the universities you choose would be fine. The dynamics ought not to be THAT different. I'm happy with where I am, and have no regrets about not picking UNSW.
 
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leont

Member
I was in the same situation as you were leont, being accepted by UNSW, Monash and UTAS.

In the end I opted for Monash because it was a much better choice financially, and I honestly prefer the shorter course. True, the commute to/from the city can be quite irritating, but there are other points to take into consideration. If you choose to live on campus, you could try applying to the new halls that were just opened this year. They are kinda like mini hotel rooms with en suite kitchenettes/toilets/showers and extremely high-speed internet. Several major super markets are a 15 minute bus ride away. If you want to catch a movie or shop (major labels included), there's always Chadstone SC which is about 20 minutes away. Sure, Melbourne City is wonderful, but it's not THAT inaccessible. And what with studying and all that, I hardly think you'd want to be distracted.

Also, in Year 3, if you're lucky enough to get Alfred Hospital for your clinical placement, you could opt to live in the city as well, since most learning during the clinical years takes place in the Hospitals. Of course, that's provided you get a place there (which is something practically everybody wants). One of my seniors got posted to Dandenong Hospital, and she has to drive for over an hour everyday to get there from the city. Luck of the draw. That said, a couple of my friends who are international students are living in the city, and don't mind driving or even taking public transportation everyday to get to school. It really is up to you how you want to approach this.

I have quite alot to say about the curriculum. But I shall restrain myself. It has its ups and downs. Frankly, I get quite annoyed during some lectures, a couple of which are just simply professors that read off the slides which they will then upload for us later on. I think you need to approach university in a different way as you would high school. You will be treated like an intelligent adult and will be expected to do your own reading. It's not like high school where you will have past year papers or special cheat sheet notes prepared for you by your teachers. If anything, it's other students/seniors who you'll be relying on the most for help. Don't expect to be spoon-fed. There will be numerous books written about one subject as opposed to one textbook (unlike in high school), and you will need to choose what works best for you. Don't expect your lecturers/tutors to help you do well. In essence, Med School is tough, and there's only so much someone else can help you with.

As far as the international community and the international-local interaction goes, here's what I have to say about it. Most of the international students in Monash Med for the 2012 batch come from Singapore (about half), following which are Malaysians. They are a tight-knit community. During tutorials like CBL, which rely heavily on a class effort, you'll have plenty of time to mingle with the locals. At the end of the day, whether or not you make friends has more to do with you as a person, than you as an international student.

We have quite an enthusiastic medical society. The main body MUMUS organises many useful things like book sales, equipment sales, etc. Lectures, talks, etc. And some fun events like MedCamp, MedBall... the list goes on. We have the annual MedRevue (drama night), Med Orchestra, Med Choir, Surgical Interest Group (which organises a couple of workshops every year). Overall, the life here isn't really that dull.

Frankly, either of the universities you choose would be fine. The dynamics ought not to be THAT different. I'm happy with where I am, and have no regrets about not picking UNSW.

That's really helpful kilik, thank you so much! To be frank, my heart is leaning towards UNSW due to its reputation, location and I feel that I might like the UNSW experience much more. However, the practical side of me tells me Monash, due to the 5 year course and so much savings that I could actually get.

I know that choosing UNSW might sound irrational at this point, but sometimes the decision is so hard to make because of the internal feelings toward the schools...
 

leont

Member
I don't know, you only really spend a couple of years at University, and then you'll have to start going to hospital in god knows where.

I'm going to be completely blunt here and down to the point here...
If I were you, I'd choose Monash because it's a) 5 years, b) Melbourne is smaller and therefore less hard to get around than Sydney and c) because it's far, far cheaper. Unless UNSW has an extremely powerful presence/reputation in your country of origin OR you think that a BMed/MD will ahve more sway in your country than a normal MBBS would OR your think that the lifestyle/climate is going to be significantly different to warrant your $70,000 extra outlay OR you like to spend money and time for something you can easily achieve during your first year of work, then Monash is the clear choice.

Lotto,

1. Over here in my home country, UNSW has a much more powerful presence/reputation due to the international examinations set for primary school children and secondary school level, for us young kids to pit on the international scale for a distinction/merit/participation/fail. Due to the difficult tests and the prestige of these international tests, UNSW is often highly regarded as one of the best universities from Australia. As for monash, only medical applicants and medical hopefuls or those who are in-the-know of medical schools know that it is a good medical school. However, the general impression monash as a university gives to others might not be as good.

2. The lifestyle/climate part, as trivial as it sounds, definitely plays a huge part in the decision making as after all, one will be spending the next five or six years in the place one eventually chooses.

3. Won't the cost of living of Sydney and Melbourne be roughly the same?

Can someone advice on the hospitals UNSW works with for the clinical years? Any extremely secluded, rural ones? Or majority are in Sydney itself?

The opportunity cost of one extra year of studies (fees + expenses) is the main draw back from UNSW... otherwise it's a clear choice of UNSW for me.
 

pi

Junior doctor
Emeritus Staff
1. Are those those ICAS UNSW tests? They're not too great haha, from where I come from (school) most people get at least a credit so they're pretty straightforward :p

2. Lifestyle depends on what you want. Do you want a more city atmosphere or one that is a bit further away in the suburbs?

3. Sydney is more expensive, especially if you're living centrally as opposed to Monash's eastern suburbs.
 

bleukreuz

Member
As far as I know, international student wouldn't be placed in rural area, except if you expressed your interest, since the those rural placement will go to rural bonded scheme and other local students first.

Here's some info I copied from UNSW's med website:
The Teaching Hospitals

The main hospitals located in Sydney which are used for clinical teaching are:

    • Prince of Wales Hospital, Randwick
      St George Hospital, Kogarah
      St Vincent's Hospital, Darlinghurst
      Liverpool Hospital, Liverpool
      Sydney Children’s Hospital, Randwick
      Royal Hospital for Women, Randwick
      Sutherland Hospital, Caringbah
      Bankstown Hospital, Bankstown
      Campbelltown Hospital, Campbelltown
      Fairfield Hospital, Fairfield
The main hospitals located outside of Sydney and in rural New South Wales and Victoria which are used for clinical teaching are:

    • Wollongong Hospital, Wollongong
      Wagga Wagga Base Hospital, Wagga Wagga
      Albury Base Hospital, Albury
      Wodonga Regional Health Service, Wodonga (Victoria)
      Port Macquarie Base Hospital, Port Macquarie
      Coffs Harbour Hospital, Coffs Harbour
It is expected that students who gain entry via the Rural Student Entry Scheme will be allocated to a rural hospital and undertake between half and all of their final 2 years in rural hospitals. Other local students may have the option or be required to undertake at least 12 months and up to 2 years of studies in rural hospitals. International students are not usually given this option of undertaking an extended placement in rural hospitals. However, all students should expect at least 8 weeks in a rural rotation.

Students who are allocated to a rural hospital currently have as their home hospital Wagga Wagga, Albury, Coffs Harbour or Port Macquarie. Such students are also required to undertake some terms or part of terms in hospitals or health care facilities other than their home hospital. Wollongong Hospital is also being developed as a teaching hospital.

The Faculty will always consider the personal preferences of students in their allocation to home hospitals and to other hospitals on rotation. However, the Faculty reserves the right to allocate students to hospitals that are not their first preference in order to ensure that students receive the highest possible quality of teaching. Students considering applying for entry into UNSW Medicine must take this into consideration and be willing to undertake their training in a range of hospital and health care facilities. For further information please refer to the Faculty’s Policy on Allocation of Students to Clinical Environments.

That being said, in my first year (and I'm pretty sure second year as well), we were only offered Prince of Wales, Liverpool, St George and St Vincent. The allocation of the hospital is based on your preference and selection will be randomised if there's more people who wants a place in a hospital with more than the space available.

I myself got Prince of Wales.
 

leont

Member
1. Are those those ICAS UNSW tests? They're not too great haha, from where I come from (school) most people get at least a credit so they're pretty straightforward :p

2. Lifestyle depends on what you want. Do you want a more city atmosphere or one that is a bit further away in the suburbs?

3. Sydney is more expensive, especially if you're living centrally as opposed to Monash's eastern suburbs.

1. Yes they are! True.. there are so many credits! Distinctions are hard to get though. :)

2. I am alright with having a quiet environment for a place of study... but not too far out from the city such that it's an extreme hassle just thinking of going to town to get something. Are students allowed to own a car in monash though? That would make things so much easier.

3. Yeah, that's true. Is UNSW located in the touristy area near the harbour bridge and opera house? Because the things there would be marked up (prices wise) to earn off the tourists, no? :)
 

leont

Member
As far as I know, international student wouldn't be placed in rural area, except if you expressed your interest, since the those rural placement will go to rural bonded scheme and other local students first.

Here's some info I copied from UNSW's med website:


That being said, in my first year (and I'm pretty sure second year as well), we were only offered Prince of Wales, Liverpool, St George and St Vincent. The allocation of the hospital is based on your preference and selection will be randomised if there's more people who wants a place in a hospital with more than the space available.

I myself got Prince of Wales.

I heard PoW is the nearest to UNSW campus... You must be really happy with the hospital allocation! :) Thanks for the info!
 

Calem

Ol' Man River
2. I am alright with having a quiet environment for a place of study... but not too far out from the city such that it's an extreme hassle just thinking of going to town to get something. Are students allowed to own a car in monash though? That would make things so much easier.
Monash really isn't that far out. I'd say it would take you 30 minutes to get in which isn't far by Australian standards at all. And students can park at monash, if you're on res I think you get it free, otherwise you can get a blue permit (costs a bit), or use the free parking about 10 minute walk from campus, or carpool with someone and use that carparking. Availability's generally pretty good.

In terms of doing med at monash and the prestige between UNSW and Monash in your home country, sure to the everyday person they might think UNSW is better, but what a med degree gives you is a job and you say that those in the know know that Monash is good. The people who will be hiring you at hospitals back home are going to be in the know, because they're in the medical field. I mean sure it might be nice to get that bit more of a buzz from people thinking how prestigious your degree is, but is it really going to affect you getting a good job?
 

greenglacier

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
I can appreciate that the competitions run by UNSW give them good name recognition amongst school students and teachers in your home country... but would they really give more name recognition amongst doctors? i.e. would they actually made UNSW seem more prestigious to the people who'd be hiring you as a doctor in your country?
 

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bleukreuz

Member
3. Yeah, that's true. Is UNSW located in the touristy area near the harbour bridge and opera house? Because the things there would be marked up (prices wise) to earn off the tourists, no? :)

UNSW is located about 45 minutes from harbour bridge and opera house so there's no 'touristy' kind of shops that sells souvenirs and such near UNSW and I don't think the prices are higher as well, but I might be wrong, since I've only ever bought food in and around the campus and nearby suburb.

I heard PoW is the nearest to UNSW campus... You must be really happy with the hospital allocation! :) Thanks for the info!

Yeah, I was very pleased cause I can just walk there after I had a lecture :D


Anyway the only advice I can give is just pick the one that makes you happy. If your gut is telling you UNSW, then go for it, otherwise you might start regretting if Monash doesn't live up to your expectation.
 

mighty

Regular Member
UNSW is located about 45 minutes from harbour bridge and opera house
Really?? Depending on traffic, it can take about 20-45minutes by car to get to the Opera House by car although like you said it's not really in a touristy area at all.

[MENTION=14525]leont[/MENTION]: If you're looking for living costs I would recommend staying on campus at college (whichever uni you go to). It makes meeting friends and new people so much easier and plus it takes away the stress of having to look for a place. As far as I'm aware, the college prices between Monash and UNSW are fairly similar (probably around the $14-18k mark per year?). :)
 

Calem

Ol' Man River
Really?? Depending on traffic, it can take about 20-45minutes by car to get to the Opera House by car although like you said it's not really in a touristy area at all.

@leont : If you're looking for living costs I would recommend staying on campus at college (whichever uni you go to). It makes meeting friends and new people so much easier and plus it takes away the stress of having to look for a place. As far as I'm aware, the college prices between Monash and UNSW are fairly similar (probably around the $14-18k mark per year?). :)
It's a lot cheaper to live at monash if you go non-catered. Halls of Residence are about $8450 a year. Briggs and Jackomos (noncatered studio apartments) are about $10300. Mannix (catered college) is $14900.
UNSW prices are 15200 at New College (catered), and $11600 at somewhere like UNSW village (non-catered).
So catered it's roughly comparable, but I'd say it's a LOT cheaper at monash for non-catered.

(NOTE: I don't know UNSW res situations very well, tried to pick representative ones but they might not be very helpful.)
 

leont

Member
Monash really isn't that far out. I'd say it would take you 30 minutes to get in which isn't far by Australian standards at all. And students can park at monash, if you're on res I think you get it free, otherwise you can get a blue permit (costs a bit), or use the free parking about 10 minute walk from campus, or carpool with someone and use that carparking. Availability's generally pretty good.

In terms of doing med at monash and the prestige between UNSW and Monash in your home country, sure to the everyday person they might think UNSW is better, but what a med degree gives you is a job and you say that those in the know know that Monash is good. The people who will be hiring you at hospitals back home are going to be in the know, because they're in the medical field. I mean sure it might be nice to get that bit more of a buzz from people thinking how prestigious your degree is, but is it really going to affect you getting a good job?

Yeah, I know. I'll think about it though, thank you so much for your input!:)

By 30 minutes do you mean from the melbourne city centre? :)

I can appreciate that the competitions run by UNSW give them good name recognition amongst school students and teachers in your home country... but would they really give more name recognition amongst doctors? i.e. would they actually made UNSW seem more prestigious to the people who'd be hiring you as a doctor in your country?

As long as the school's accredited, I'm sure the people hiring would not mind. That said though, I'm not too sure if they view UNSW and Monash differently.

UNSW is located about 45 minutes from harbour bridge and opera house so there's no 'touristy' kind of shops that sells souvenirs and such near UNSW and I don't think the prices are higher as well, but I might be wrong, since I've only ever bought food in and around the campus and nearby suburb.



Yeah, I was very pleased cause I can just walk there after I had a lecture :D


Anyway the only advice I can give is just pick the one that makes you happy. If your gut is telling you UNSW, then go for it, otherwise you might start regretting if Monash doesn't live up to your expectation.

I know! The gut feeling. ;) That's rather far from the touristy area actually! Is sydney city really big? :O

Really?? Depending on traffic, it can take about 20-45minutes by car to get to the Opera House by car although like you said it's not really in a touristy area at all.

@leont : If you're looking for living costs I would recommend staying on campus at college (whichever uni you go to). It makes meeting friends and new people so much easier and plus it takes away the stress of having to look for a place. As far as I'm aware, the college prices between Monash and UNSW are fairly similar (probably around the $14-18k mark per year?). :)

Hey mighty! I'm definitely going to stay at campus, preferably a studio apartment one with a kitchen! :) Is it possible to stay in campus for all 5/6 years,, or do we have to move out after a certain period of time to cater spaces for newcomers? :)

It's a lot cheaper to live at monash if you go non-catered. Halls of Residence are about $8450 a year. Briggs and Jackomos (noncatered studio apartments) are about $10300. Mannix (catered college) is $14900.
UNSW prices are 15200 at New College (catered), and $11600 at somewhere like UNSW village (non-catered).
So catered it's roughly comparable, but I'd say it's a LOT cheaper at monash for non-catered.

(NOTE: I don't know UNSW res situations very well, tried to pick representative ones but they might not be very helpful.)

Calem, thank you so much for your help! It's really so much more affordable living in Monash! For the newly built halls you were mentioning previously, what's the name of those and what are the costs? :)
 

mighty

Regular Member
Hey mighty! I'm definitely going to stay at campus, preferably a studio apartment one with a kitchen! :) Is it possible to stay in campus for all 5/6 years,, or do we have to move out after a certain period of time to cater spaces for newcomers? :)
Hmm, it's possible, but it's unlikely. Usually after a year or two people move off-campus into share housing with friends. I think they also tend to give preference to first year/commencing students as well. Also, don't expect to stay on campus for the full duration of the degree, you'll probably be doing placements in the latter years of your degree (meaning it's a waste to pay for uni accom rather than 3 months of rent or whatever). :)

Here's some information on accommodation at Monash:
http://www.mrs.monash.edu.au/on-campus-accommodation/clayton/index.html
http://www.mrs.monash.edu.au/on-cam...plying/halls-residence-normanby-fees-2012.pdf
 

leont

Member
Hmm, it's possible, but it's unlikely. Usually after a year or two people move off-campus into share housing with friends. I think they also tend to give preference to first year/commencing students as well. Also, don't expect to stay on campus for the full duration of the degree, you'll probably be doing placements in the latter years of your degree (meaning it's a waste to pay for uni accom rather than 3 months of rent or whatever). :)

Here's some information on accommodation at Monash:
Clayton Residential
http://www.mrs.monash.edu.au/on-cam...plying/halls-residence-normanby-fees-2012.pdf

Thanks for the great help mighty!! =) I will definitely check those links out!
 

pi

Junior doctor
Emeritus Staff
By 30 minutes do you mean from the melbourne city centre?


Yep, from Melb CBD. I'd say on a bad day it'd take 45 mins max via public transport.


As long as the school's accredited, I'm sure the people hiring would not mind. That said though, I'm not too sure if they view UNSW and Monash differently.


Well, as I said here:
3. Looking at this (first link on Google haha): Rankings of Australian Universities Monash is ranked 117 to UNSW's 173. And in terms of medical schools, Monash > UNSW again, Best Medical Schools in Australia | Good University Ranking Guide


So Monash should be more respected than UNSW in terms of Med if people take the ranking into account.


I know! The gut feeling. ;) That's rather far from the touristy area actually! Is sydney city really big? :O

Sydney's pretty big haha

Hey mighty! I'm definitely going to stay at campus, preferably a studio apartment one with a kitchen! :) Is it possible to stay in campus for all 5/6 years,, or do we have to move out after a certain period of time to cater spaces for newcomers? :)

I know that at Monash, you could stay there for all 5 years if you wanted to.
 
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bleukreuz

Member
Really?? Depending on traffic, it can take about 20-45minutes by car to get to the Opera House by car although like you said it's not really in a touristy area at all.

45 minutes is my regular time to go to UNSW from my home if you're going with bus + foot, although it can take longer if you missed the bus, get stuck in some random traffic, or got lost. If you just want to go to the city from UNSW, then it'll probably take 20-25 minutes. Opera House will take 45 mins just because you have to go through the city's traffic, and maybe add some more time cause you have to walk to the Opera House from the bus stop.

Oh and the bus you chose will affect the timing as well since there's express bus that doesn't stop till your destination and regular bus which will pretty much stop at every bus stop.

Is sydney city really big? :O

As far as I know, it's the biggest city in Australia (and most populous, I believe). The CBD (Central Business District) or what's called the "City" itself is not that big and you can always use train and bus to get around. But if you account for all the suburbs of Sydney, yeah it's massive.

Is it possible to stay in campus for all 5/6 years,, or do we have to move out after a certain period of time to cater spaces for newcomers? :)
If you're planning on going back to your country during summer break, you either have to move out or pay for the whole summer break to retain your room. As for staying there for 5-6 years, I think it's possible, provided you pay for it as well :p
 
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leont

Member
Just a quick question, I am aware that UNSW uploads the quality of teaching and students' satisfaction/dissastisfsction reports for the medical course online as a document for the public to read... Does monash do the same? I can't seem to find much information on the monash website and it's quite frustrating, as there's such a huge wealth of information on the UNSW side. Can any monash students advice on what's the main pros and cons the students experience there? In comparison, from what I read from the report (you can google to find the detailed 30+ pages one), UNSW main good points are the student community and they are extremely receptive to feedback, while the bad points are the iffy ways they grade essays and examinations, and not much communication and support to medical students regarding examination aspects. The ILP received negative feedback too, although over the years it has been improving, which shows that the uni is doing its best to improve the programme.

Furthermore, UNSW sends a detailed PDF file containing information of course content and how each semester/course would be graded and learning objectives for each module, to their students. I have one set sent to me by a helpful forum mate, and I was wondering if monash does the same for their students? Any monash students willing to share and send me such a similar file containing these important info, should it exist? Thank you so much!
 

leont

Member
Yep, from Melb CBD. I'd say on a bad day it'd take 45 mins max via public transport.





Well, as I said here:



So Monash should be more respected than UNSW in terms of Med if people take the ranking into account.




Sydney's pretty big haha



I know that at Monash, you could stay there for all 5 years if you wanted to.

Thanks for the info! By the way rohitpi, can you do me a favour and read my above post and assist me in that? :) you have been a great help thus far, thank you so much! :)

45 minutes is my regular time to go to UNSW from my home if you're going with bus + foot, although it can take longer if you missed the bus, get stuck in some random traffic, or got lost. If you just want to go to the city from UNSW, then it'll probably take 20-25 minutes. Opera House will take 45 mins just because you have to go through the city's traffic, and maybe add some more time cause you have to walk to the Opera House from the bus stop.

Oh and the bus you chose will affect the timing as well since there's express bus that doesn't stop till your destination and regular bus which will pretty much stop at every bus stop.



As far as I know, it's the biggest city in Australia (and most populous, I believe). The CBD (Central Business District) or what's called the "City" itself is not that big and you can always use train and bus to get around. But if you account for all the suburbs of Sydney, yeah it's massive.


If you're planning on going back to your country during summer break, you either have to move out or pay for the whole summer break to retain your room. As for staying there for 5-6 years, I think it's possible, provided you pay for it as well :p

Wow Sydney really does sound pretty big. Thank you for the info, :)
 

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