Auckland MBChB class of 2024

[Avatar Aang]

Piazza is on

Also to anyone who hasn’t, join the discord MBChB grp. The link to it is in ur email sent by the class reps this week

 

[014phalo]

So that's a bit of a gray area
As TIs, you get a fornightly stipend from the government anyways ... it's a VERY nice sum of tax-free money. At the moment, the work we do in the hospital is counted as part of our education as we are still TIs.

However if we were to step up to the role of a new house officer (PGY1), there are discussions in the RDA contract that suggest we would be paid either $40 or $60 an hour, working 8hr shifts Mon-Fri (+free lunches as per usual with junior doctors). Which sounds pretty sweet tbh but then there's the discussion of if we still keep our TI stipend and how future job prospects work as well

But as i understand it the University is very against sending us into the workforce as accelerated graduates

Isn't the stipend only around 27k?

 

[Pump]

Isn't the stipend only around 27k?

Yeah, seems like you're implying that's not a lot?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Yeah, seems like you're implying that's not a lot?

Haha, yeah, I saw that response and thought the same thing! I did two years of almost full time employment to complete my allied health degree and got... $0.

 

[014phalo]

Yeah, seems like you're implying that's not a lot?

Sorry, I've been working for a number of years, I wouldn't consider 27k a large amount. However, as a student grant it's absolutely awesome.

 

[Cathay]

Sorry, I've been working for a number of years, I wouldn't consider 27k a large amount. However, as a student grant it's absolutely awesome.

Well it’s tax free so it comes out just under 40-hrs a week at minimum wage (depending on KiwiSaver and student loan parts of the automatic deductions).

I think it depends on your viewpoint - I would agree that for someone that comes from working in a professional job, 27k (after tax) doesn’t sound like much, and it’s certainly quite a distance from PGY1 house officer pay, but for those who have been studying a number of years, especially those who have been studying since high school, it’s quite a bit of money (especially since it’s just given out without having to be earned outside of studying).

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Cathay, you’re still (correct me if I’m misinterpreting the NZ system) a student at this stage where the stipend kicks in, right, not a graduated doctor? If so, regardless of your employment history, this is a lot of money to be paid to finish a degree.

ETA: Are there any other degrees that provide access to a similar payment? I’m wondering specifically about, say, teaching or nursing where employment is significantly government based and the degree itself involves almost entirely ‘placement’ in the final year/s.

 

[014phalo]

We all seem to be arguing different twigs of the same branch . I entirely agree with your 'twigs' as well. The stipend is a privilege regardless of one's background. For those who have not been in full time employment it could well be a very nice sum (relative to nothing I suppose).

 

[Avatar Aang]

Hey LMG! I’m just curious how much government grant does Australia give to med students in their final yr?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hey LMG! I’m just curious how much government grant does Australia give to med students in their final yr?

$0.

ETA: I worked full time for 5 years before starting Med and would jump for joy at the thought of $27k (even if it was NZD )! Just for some alternative perspective *

*and in case any Greens or Labor pollies happen to stumble across this thread and think it sounds like a good idea!

 

[Cathay]

Cathay, you’re still (correct me if I’m misinterpreting the NZ system) a student at this stage where the stipend kicks in, right, not a graduated doctor? If so, regardless of your employment history, this is a lot of money to be paid to finish a degree.

It’s a year-long pre-intern programme, in Australian terms. The 5th year exams are the exit exams, and 6th year is more on-the-job learning for being a House Officer (intern/resident). I vaguely recall that TIs were allowed to prescribe in their own name in times past (until it came to a halt following an incident IIRC) and it’s something the med student associations have been advocating to have back for some years. The stipend recognises that transition from studying to an early form of “working”.

So yes, it’s infinitely more than nothing considering it’s officially still a med school year, but I can see why it doesn’t sound like a lot compared to full-time working.

 

[Avatar Aang]

Ok so I’ve calculate how much money you get monthly for the grant and you get around $2229.67/month which is $557.4/week. However if your a grad entry med student then you can choose to get paid the full $26756 all at once. Also grant is only given to domestic students

 

[Pump]

For me it's simple - free money (tax-free at that) is GOOD MONEY

Cathay, you’re still (correct me if I’m misinterpreting the NZ system) a student at this stage where the stipend kicks in, right, not a graduated doctor? If so, regardless of your employment history, this is a lot of money to be paid to finish a degree.

ETA: Are there any other degrees that provide access to a similar payment? I’m wondering specifically about, say, teaching or nursing where employment is significantly government based and the degree itself involves almost entirely ‘placement’ in the final year/s.

AFAIK no - imo NZ nursing students have it particularly rough. At times they're basically working full-time while trying to complete University assignments. I still don't understand how nursing is only a three year degree (should be four imo) but that's besides the point

I think that's why the media has recently LOVED exposing this TI grant e.g. when the 53 Otago medical students came clean about their electives, most articles made a point of emphasizing the stipend. Stuff came up with this headline: "Med Student Scammers can Enter Medical Professional After Remedial Work". This shit has been going on for years and years and years and years. Jesus christ Stuff.

Also more recently the documents of a union's IEL to draft TIs in the workforce got leaked. This is a significantly revised article that had some statements redacted, but basically the article focused on how TIs get free money + would be made $40/hr more if drafted. Of course they had to talk to a nurse (who have been fighting for pay increases very publicly for a while now) to get their outraged opinion

 

[lordgarlic]

For me it's simple - free money (tax-free at that) is GOOD MONEY



AFAIK no - imo NZ nursing students have it particularly rough. At times they're basically working full-time while trying to complete University assignments. I still don't understand how nursing is only a three year degree (should be four imo) but that's besides the point

I think that's why the media has recently LOVED exposing this TI grant e.g. when the 53 Otago medical students came clean about their electives, most articles made a point of emphasizing the stipend. Stuff came up with this headline: "Med Student Scammers can Enter Medical Professional After Remedial Work". This shit has been going on for years and years and years and years. Jesus christ Stuff.

Also more recently the documents of a union's IEL to draft TIs in the workforce got leaked. This is a significantly revised article that had some statements redacted, but basically the article focused on how TIs get free money + would be made $40/hr more if drafted. Of course they had to talk to a nurse (who have been fighting for pay increases very publicly for a while now) to get their outraged opinion

Actually it was even pissing off the RMOs I supervise when they found out that TIs were potentially getting paid an hourly rate in addition to their stipend if drafted but only working day shifts......

Don't forget the TI grant is Tax-Free, BUT you also aren't committed to 40 hours a week like a regular worker. If your team send you home early, you still get paid the same amount. If you are doing a rotation like community psychiatry and nothing is going on, you still get paid the same amount. There is a lot of versatility in the TI grant. You have no rostered long days or night shifts.

Don't compare the salary to a house officer because a house officer works a roster designed to average 55-60 hours per run so their salary reflects that!

Re: TI prescribing, this hasn't been a thing for a number of years, I'd say over a decade. When I was a trainee intern just under a decade ago I had to get everything countersigned.

Frankly you all should be glad that the government is still paying the stipend given how many more medical students there are now

 

[Avatar Aang]

lordgarlic damn if you were a TI over a decade ago then you must be like a consultant now . How does it feel? Do u still have the same passion as u had wen u were a 2nd year med student?

 

[Pump]

it was even pissing off the RMOs I supervise when they found out that TIs were potentially getting paid an hourly rate in addition to their stipend if drafted but only working day shifts......

I 100% would be pissed - imagine TIs getting paid $40-60 an hour, only 8 - 5 with no nights and weekends and they get food on an RMO card. I think the RDA is kidding themselves and just trying to shill for new members, flashing these contracts around

I had to get everything countersigned.

same

Frankly you all should be glad that the government is still paying the stipend

absolutely, i dont think you need to even say that lol

 

[lordgarlic]

lordgarlic damn if you were a TI over a decade ago then you must be like a consultant now . How does it feel? Do u still have the same passion as u had wen u were a 2nd year med student?

Priorities change in life. Though everyone starts with a great passion for medicine you end up finding other passions and medicine is a job that you enjoy rather than your lifelong passion. Years slaving as a RMO makes you feel a bit jaded about the system in general. Yes I'm a consultant and I have a good work life balance now with both clinical and non-clinical work. For those of you who think you'll be a "full time" consultant when you finish, you'll relish non-clinical roles as an adjunct so you don't work clinical full time

 

[1998]

Hey guys, how is everyone going with their study? I'm personally finding it difficult finding the motivation to study for the musculo module :\ Not sure what to do

 

[014phalo]

Hey guys, how is everyone going with their study? I'm personally finding it difficult finding the motivation to study for the musculo module :\ Not sure what to do

Same. It really doesn't help that it's now open book... #easymode.

I guess just try to remember that what you're storing in your longterm memory for the MS module will be able to help pts. one day.

 

[Avatar Aang]

Hey guys, how is everyone going with their study? I'm personally finding it difficult finding the motivation to study for the musculo module :\ Not sure what to do

Bruh I feel the samee.