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Choosing Between Universities

hyperbole

Member
Monash CSP vs WSU BMP

Both 5 year courses - I'm from NSW but warming up to the idea of moving out and learning towards monash since it's unbonded, and the MD course at wsu is new this year. Although wsu would allow me to get a guaranteed internship in nsw once I graduate.

What would YOU choose in my position and why?

If anyone could also comment on any other pro/cons (e.g internship, social life) at either uni that would be appreciated, thank you!

MONASH UNBONDED PROS/WSU BONDED CONS

1) Didn't you want to go the US before? I do remember a WSU bonded person asking a question regarding the US so it might be you? Well, Go8 Monash would edge WSU for getting into an American residency. Prestige matters for the US.

2) Unbonded>>>> bonded. Now bonded is great if you have no other offer. But unbonded? In a city like Melbourne? I would go for the unbonded.

If you try to do your bonded obligation out of the way in intern year, you'll likely to be stuck in a rural NSW hospital for 2 years(and not 1) because NSW Health signing new intern recruits to 2 year contracts. This is NSW (and therefore WSU) specific. This takes away valuable networking time for specialty applications. While a 2 year contract provides job stability, for those on bonded, it can also potentially be a hinderance.

It would be hard to do your obligation during registrar years unless you're in a "general" training program such as GP or emergency since a rural hospital may not be able to accommodate the more "obscure" or "highly specialised" specialties. Likewise, if you ended up in a "highly specialised" specialty, the rural area may not be able to accommodate specialty even when you're a fully licensed specialist. However, you will still need to fulfill the obligation to serve in an underserved area as signed on the contract. This kind of complicates things if you push your obligation to later in your career.

TLDR. So if you want a completely unhinged career options after graduation, go for unbonded. If you're gungho and set on going to general practice, it shouldn't impact you too much BUT in reality, most medical students flip flop during and after medical schools and it is advised to to keep specialty career options open.

3) Melbourne>Sydney. Obviously subjective but those livability rankings seem to favour Melbourne over Sydney and Melbourne gets ranked no. 1. Gladys is doing a stinker of a job governing NSW (NSW State Labor doesn't seem any better though) and there is a net outflow of people from Sydney(and NSW) into Victoria and Qld. There definitely seems to be a sentiment amongst Sydneysiders that they're a bit sick and tired of the city.

On a local level neighbourhood wise, Clayton> Campbelltown. 30-40 minutes to CBD vs 1 hour for Campbelltown. Clayton isn't exactly flash though by Melbourne standards. It would be the equivalent of perhaps Lidcombe in Sydney? However, since you mentioned social life, this is one aspect that favours Monash since it is much closer to its respective CBD. Monash is also close to Australia's largest shopping centre, Chadstone. Melbourne itself has a more vibrant social life due to the lack of lockout laws.

4) Campus life. Monash Clayton is a full sized campus. Clayton is not a "pretty" campus though. Nevertheless, the campus itself would have more food options, student societies and a more active social life(lunch time sport, gym etc) than WSU. Campbelltown is a small, cozy campus and the buildings look modern but is very small.

WSU BONDED PROS/MONASH UNBONDED CONS

1)Since you're from NSW, you could potentially save rent by staying at your parents house if you're close enough to Campbelltown Campus.

2) If you're deadset on a NSW internship (even rural NSW), you can get a NSW internship more easily. But the bonded kind of negates that since your post medical school options become slightly limited by the bonded obligation.
 

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Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Monash CSP vs WSU BMP

Both 5 year courses - I'm from NSW but warming up to the idea of moving out and learning towards monash since it's unbonded, and the MD course at wsu is new this year. Although wsu would allow me to get a guaranteed internship in nsw once I graduate.

What would YOU choose in my position and why?

If anyone could also comment on any other pro/cons (e.g internship, social life) at either uni that would be appreciated, thank you!
Where in NSW are you from? If you're in Sydney, then I would probably strongly suggest WSU despite the bonded nature of it because you'll get to live at home for the 5 years you study. If you are NOT in Sydney, then you'd have to move regardless, in which case I'd be taking the Monash offer (assuming you are free to work wherever you want and don't have to return to NSW for any particular reason after).

The MD course at WSU I would not expect to be entirely new - it's almost certainly going to be very similar to their old MBBS with maybe a couple of research projects tacked on.

To clarify the NSW 2 year contract/bonded thing:
You do NOT have to do your 1 year of RoS in your intern year (you can do it then or any time later on throughout provided it is within the year limit - however definitely consider the impact on future career progression). Within the 2 year NSW contract, it is possible, for example, if you got allocated to the RPAH network, for you to then do your intern year at RPAH and your resident year at one of the RPAH-affiliated peripheral sites, like Dubbo, on the SAME 2 year contract, and still have done at least some networking at the RPAH during your time there. (This would work mostly for hospital networks where there is a clear metro and rural/regional hospital, like the RPAH -> Dubbo, or RNSH -> Port Macquarie; it wouldn't work if you got assigned Bankstown and Campbelltown for example because those are both urban and it doesn't have enough rural terms to do a whole year iirc).
 

hyperbole

Member
Where in NSW are you from? If you're in Sydney, then I would probably strongly suggest WSU despite the bonded nature of it because you'll get to live at home for the 5 years you study. If you are NOT in Sydney, then you'd have to move regardless, in which case I'd be taking the Monash offer (assuming you are free to work wherever you want and don't have to return to NSW for any particular reason after).

The MD course at WSU I would not expect to be entirely new - it's almost certainly going to be very similar to their old MBBS with maybe a couple of research projects tacked on.

To clarify the NSW 2 year contract/bonded thing:
You do NOT have to do your 1 year of RoS in your intern year (you can do it then or any time later on throughout provided it is within the year limit - however definitely consider the impact on future career progression). Within the 2 year NSW contract, it is possible, for example, if you got allocated to the RPAH network, for you to then do your intern year at RPAH and your resident year at one of the RPAH-affiliated peripheral sites, like Dubbo, on the SAME 2 year contract, and still have done at least some networking at the RPAH during your time there. (This would work mostly for hospital networks where there is a clear metro and rural/regional hospital, like the RPAH -> Dubbo, or RNSH -> Port Macquarie; it wouldn't work if you got assigned Bankstown and Campbelltown for example because those are both urban and it doesn't have enough rural terms to do a whole year iirc).

However, with a random allocation system in NSW, there's no guarantee you'll get into RPA or RNS. So it's not an exact science on where someone gets allocated. And even if you did get a hospital such as RPA/RNS, you'd still inevitably have trouble networking compared to your counterparts who have been in metropolitan hospitals for the whole two years.

And yeah the point I was trying to make is that if you push the RoS to a later year (eg one of your registrar years or during residency), it likely has implications for career progression. Especially for the not as common but very competitive specialties. You were much more succinct than me though in your explanation so thanks for that though.

So basically, bonded medical places, while not as bad as the past(when it was 4 years, 6 years or 2020 onwards when it becomes 3 years), still presents a hurdle compared to an unbonded place no matter when you do your RoS.
 
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Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
However, with a random allocation system in NSW, there's no guarantee you'll get into RPA or RNS. So it's not an exact science on where someone gets allocated. And you inevitably will have trouble networking compared to your counterparts who have been in metropolitan hospitals for the whole two years.
Bankstown/Campbelltown is more the exception rather than the rule here - all of the other Sydney hospital networks will have a rural secondment that has enough placements for you to do a year, so if you're planning to do intern year in the city and resident year in the country you don't necessarily have to get RPAH or RNSH.

I do agree that it is a disadvantage in networking if you are going for a metro position (which the majority would find desirable).
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
And yeah the point I was trying to make is that if you push the RoS to a later year (eg one of your registrar years or during residency), it likely has implications for career progression. Especially for the not as common but very competitive specialties.
Not necessarily. Many trainees in "competitive specialties" also do time on rural secondments. People are spending more and more time now in "holding pattern" jobs while they try to get onto programmes, too, so a regional year or two may be seen as a stepping stone by many, regardless.
 
Need help deciding on Uni..

I am a school leaver entering into medicine next year. I got 2 offers and am struggling to decide between the two.
1. UNE Bonded
2. Curtin Non-bonded

I live in Melbourne so the state really doesn't matter to me as either way I have to move. I would also like to eventually return to Melbourne to practise medicine here.

Thank you.
 

hyperbole

Member
Need help deciding on Uni..

I am a school leaver entering into medicine next year. I got 2 offers and am struggling to decide between the two.
1. UNE Bonded
2. Curtin Non-bonded

I live in Melbourne so the state really doesn't matter to me as either way I have to move. I would also like to eventually return to Melbourne to practise medicine here.

Thank you.
Considering the info you provided, I would probably go with Curtin if I was in your footsteps.

-Curtin is nonbonded
-NSW is closer to VIC but UNE is in Armidale and it is harder to get back to Melbourne than Perth. You'd have to transfer flights in Sydney and the first leg (Armidale--> Sydney) would be expensive since it is a regional route. Perth, while being 5 hours away, has multiple direct flights every day.

While you can potentially do 4th and 5th year on the Central Coast (only 1 hour from Sydney) for UNE, this isn't necessarily guaranteed from what I know.


-This may be different for different people, but Perth is a relatively big city while Armidale is a country town. So there are pros and cons. But considering you're coming from Melbourne, Perth's lifestyle I assume would be more preferrable to you. It'll be easier to get part time jobs in Perth as well.

If you have a heart for rural medicine, UNE+ the bonded obligation would be great. But since your goal is to get back to Melbourne, I'm guessing that's not 100% applicable.

-UNE being in NSW means you can get Sydney internships more easily (which is closer to Melbourne than Perth both geographically and lifestyle-wise). You do have the RoS obligation looming though during your PGY years that you'd have to think about.
 

kangarude

Member
Need help deciding on Uni..

I am a school leaver entering into medicine next year. I got 2 offers and am struggling to decide between the two.
1. UNE Bonded
2. Curtin Non-bonded

I live in Melbourne so the state really doesn't matter to me as either way I have to move. I would also like to eventually return to Melbourne to practise medicine here.

Thank you.
some other things to consider besides the obvious bonded vs nonbonded. these will be pros/con depending on your personal preference -

The universities themselves:
- Curtin is larger than UNE: 50k+ students vs 22k+
- Curtin's MBBS is relatively new, whereas UNE's is more established. that being said, you won't be the first cohort (ie 'guinea pig cohort') and i've been told by students who were in curtin's first med cohort that the faculty were always willing to listen to their feedback and adjusted things accordingly
- Curtin's campus is quite modern (plus they have outdoor hammocks!). from google, UNE seems to have more classical buildings
- location: Curtin's in Perth, UNE is a while from sydney

states:
- WA internships are given out on 3 year contracts, vs NSW's 2 years
 

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hyperbole

Member
Need help choosing between Monash and WSU!

Monash
- CSP Extended Rural Cohort
- really dont like the idea of being isolated from the rest of the cohort for 3 years
- no accomodation sorted as of now
- rural experience would be good?
- dream uni

WSU
- BMP
- closer to home, but I don't like the location in syd
- bigger hospitals, so better access to newest hospital facilities
- have accomodation sorted

Can anyone guide on how internships and residency opportunities will vary for Vic and NSW grads? And thoughts on ERC vs BMP? In my opinion, I'd like to spend uni days having fun and being with the rest of the cohort, and gain experience after. I know rural experience is really good but experience as a doctor in a rural bond would be much more valuable than rural as a med student where you don't know or do much.
What is your end goal as of now? A bit hard to tell now, but do you want to specialise? If you do, do you prefer to have unhinged options? Also, where do you want to live long term?

E.g. If you want to eventually live in Melbourne long term including working life , go to Monash even with the ERC.

If you want to live in NSW, go WSU.

If you dont mind either? Do you need to be near family or not? If not, I would personally prefer living in Melbourne when just comparing cities but that is up to you.

As for ERC vs bonded, I personally think it's better to be "restricted" during medical school as opposed to professional life where the career implications are impacted more. While bonded isnt bad, Id prefer to be more flexible during PGY years as opposed to medical school.

By the way, the "bigger hospitals" in your clinical years would actually favour Monash. Although with the ERC, I guess thats a moot point for your circumstance. While Campbelltown and Blacktown are more than adequate for med school training , USyd (and to a lesser extent UNSW) has the biggest and "highest profile" hospitals in Sydney by far.

-For Monash vs WSU socially, for preclinical years, you would be tight with people within your med cohort for both. However, Clayton would have more social events and opportunities across campus and with students from other faculties. WSU doesnt really have a big central campus but multiple small ones. The downside is the social environment across any of the WSU campuses (esp Campbelltown) is a bit lacking. There is basically more opportunities " to have fun" at Monash.
 
Hello wonderful people of MSO. I'm sorry to butt in amidst many people making a hard decision at the moment however I would love an opinion towards my current situation. I am from Sydney, non-rural, gap year student and I have a CSP from Adelaide and a Griffith Privisional GC (which I had deferred from last year) and I am not sure which one to go for. My family were not very happy with my gap year decision and were understandably more upset when I didn't receive a NSW offer haha so I would perhaps like to go somewhere more cost effective. I would likely prefer the GC in terms of lifestyle and distance from home and besides I already enrolled haha. However I know that for Griffith it is quite competitive when it comes to seeing if you end up getting bonded or non-bonded for the MD and I would prefer the CSP status of Adelaide over the possibility of bonded Griffith. Having said that, I was contemplating sitting GAMSAT if I go Griffith with a slim hope of returning to Sydney, and if it fails, I suppose I would prefer to practice in QLD long term rather than SA. My head is a big war zone right now. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers :D
 

Jaffa5

Member
Having said that, I was contemplating sitting GAMSAT if I go Griffith with a slim hope of returning to Sydney
I may be wrong but I think most universities don't recognise accelerated 2 year bachelor degrees when applying for postgraduate entry. This may be something you need to research.
 
I may be wrong but I think most universities don't recognise accelerated 2 year bachelor degrees when applying for postgraduate entry. This may be something you need to research.
Ah yes, most GEMSAS schools don't recognise accelerated degrees. I guess I'll have to look more into whether USYD accepts them or not. Thanks
 

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Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Ah yes, most GEMSAS schools don't recognise accelerated degrees. I guess I'll have to look more into whether USYD accepts them or not. Thanks
They do not - source: a contact who used a 2 year degree and had a very good GAMSAT.
 

rik09

Member
Hey y'all, I'm a Brisbane school leaver and I am currently weighing up between JCU and UNE. What do you think I should consider and what did you think is best?
I think crow answered your question really well. Just to add my two cents, I think something else to consider is how difficult a course like medicine can be and how much you will need to rely on your support network. While I don't doubt that you will make an amazing group of friends at UNE, even simple things like having a home-cooked meal (assuming you'll be staying with family if you stay at JCU) can go a long way after a long day at uni. While facetiming and skype sessions exist, it's not really the same as being at home with your friends and family when you're going through a particularly hard time. A fair amount of my friends who did their undergrad interstate founds ways to come back home and do their postgrad at home. And like crow mentioned, it's also important to consider where you'd like to do your internship as it'll be a little more difficult to get one in your home state if you didn't attend med school in that state (but that's not to say it's not possible!).
 

rik09

Member
Hello everyone.
I just recently received an offer from Griffth University for their Bachelor of Medical Science (MD Provisional Entry for School-Leavers) and also an offer from the Melbourne Uni for their Chancellor Scholarship for the Bachelor of Biomedicine (Chancellor's Scholars).

I was wondering what are the pros and cons for these two unis and what are your opinions on them.
I have heard that for The University of Melbourne, you must still undertake an interview in the third year of undergraduate study before you can do your postgrad.
I was wondering if any of you know much about this interview and how difficult it may be.

Also, I don't live in either of these states so if I wanted to go to either of them I would have to move.

Thanks in advance for all your help :D
Hey! in my opinion, it sounds like Griffith is more of a sure thing than Melbs so I would definitely pick Griffith and have less to worry about overall!
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
I think crow answered your question really well. Just to add my two cents, I think something else to consider is how difficult a course like medicine can be and how much you will need to rely on your support network. While I don't doubt that you will make an amazing group of friends at UNE, even simple things like having a home-cooked meal (assuming you'll be staying with family if you stay at JCU) can go a long way after a long day at uni. While facetiming and skype sessions exist, it's not really the same as being at home with your friends and family when you're going through a particularly hard time. A fair amount of my friends who did their undergrad interstate founds ways to come back home and do their postgrad at home. And like crow mentioned, it's also important to consider where you'd like to do your internship as it'll be a little more difficult to get one in your home state if you didn't attend med school in that state (but that's not to say it's not possible!).
I agree whole-heartedly with considering the value of family support networks, but I would offer an alternative perspective as well: moving out of home and living independently is a very useful, very important life experience which should not be discounted. Whilst med school can be challenging, the road up ahead doesn't get any easier after graduation, and you do need life skills, initiative, resilience and maturity to succeed in the workplace. For some (not all - but definitely some), staying at home too long may impair or delay the acquisition of those attributes.
 
I'm very fortunate to have an offer for both CSU and Adelaide dentistry. I currently live in Sydney and was wondering if it is worth moving to Adelaide for the university's stronger reputation as a dental school.

Also, how often do you reckon I'd be able to come back to Sydney for each course? I know Orange is a 3 hour drive and Adelaide is a 1 hour flight. Expenses aside, how often will I be free to travel back and forth? If I won't be coming home to Sydney regardless, then might as well take the stronger course, right?
 
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Tomato

Regular Member
I'm very fortunate to have an offer for both courses. I currently live in Sydney and was wondering if it is worth moving to Adelaide for the university's stronger reputation as a dental school.

Also, how often do you reckon I'd be able to come back to Sydney for each course? I know Orange is a 3 hour drive and Adelaide is a 1 hour flight. Expenses aside, how often will I be free to travel back and forth? If I won't be coming home to Sydney regardless, then might as well take the stronger course, right?
If I were you, I choose Adelaide BDS regardless where I live.
 

Jnhjns

Member
They're both accredited courses, you should choose based where you actually want to live rather than the name of the university or any perceived prestige of the course.
 

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