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Direct vs Provisional Entry Questions and Discussion

"Technically UWA is not undergrad medicine." Nope, don't think so. I didn't interpret the reply from A1 as a genuine suggestion, rather an "if you're going to use the term arbitrarily then at least be consistent with your inaccuracy..." type comment.

And Bond may not be feasible for you personally to attend (as it wasn't for me), but it definitely 'counts'. To suggest otherwise is a bit dismissive when you seem to be literally counting the degree options in the country.
You don't have to be so narcissistic in your response. I'm just trying to group these unis together so it benefits other people, who, in the future, may be in the same position as me wanting to know the structures of different courses rather than having to spend hours researching like I had to. If you have a problem with the way I have written something or want to suggest a change to something I have done wrong, please feel free to do so - but do so in a way that demonstrates the maturity of an intelligent adult, rather than hurtful internet troll.

*The Bond part was just a joke, I'm happy to add it to the list! :p
 

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ucatboy

MD II
Valued Member
You don't have to be so narcissistic in your response. I'm just trying to group these unis together so it benefits other people, who, in the future, may be in the same position as me wanting to know the structures of different courses rather than having to spend hours researching like I had to. If you have a problem with the way I have written something or want to suggest a change to something I have done wrong, please feel free to do so - but do so in a way that demonstrates the maturity of an intelligent adult, rather than hurtful internet troll.

*The Bond part was just a joke, I'm happy to add it to the list! :p
The "research" you're compiling for "other people", while admirable, is basically reinventing the wheel. What classifies as undergraduate and provisional medicine has already been clearly defined imo and that information is more or less at any MSO member's fingertips. And as for accusing LMG! of being narcissistic, first search up what that word means before throwing around buzzwords, then come back and tell me what part of her response is so narcissistic to you. Sounds to me like she's just politely pointing out your misinterpretation of A1's post.
None of us are paid to answer your questions (many of which, I must say, aren't things you should even be worrying about in Year 10), so the least you can do is show some respect.
 
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I think the word had context in the situation. Besides, she was calling me dismissive and inaccurate, which by no means shows the maturity of an adult who appears to be willing to help in a kind way. Like I said, there were two conflicting opinions which were quite confusing, and (to say the least) came across as disrespectful. I understand you are all (or mostly) trained professionals in the field of medicine, and I appreciate the service you are providing free of cost, but being rude in your responses doesn't help optimistic students trying to find answers to the unknown.
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Btw threefivetwo, copying my response doesn't help either - p.s. I'm not an adult!

Ucatboy - how is it not something I shouldn't be worrying about --> senior years pass by fast, and planning things out is important.
 

Crow

MD3 | Staff
Moderator
Besides, she was calling me dismissive and inaccurate, which by no means shows the maturity of an adult who appears to be willing to help in a kind way.
But you were dismissive and inaccurate.... it wasn't an immature comment, it was highlighting why you should be cautious with the manner of your posts. It's not immature or narcissistic to point out problems in a post. I personally appreciate it whenever someone does this for me (both online and IRL) as it can point out issues I might not have been aware of at the time.

Aside from this, though - do you have any unresolved queries out of all of this? If you haven't seen already, A1 created an excellent summary table which groups each of the universities into direct/provisional entry and highlights their current admissions criteria which you'd probably find useful: [Undergrad] - (2020 Updated) Med schools Selection Criteria Y12s & Non-standards
 

dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator
There wasn’t conflicting information, and she wasn’t being dismissive. They all said that UWA/Flinders/Griffith are not undergrad programs they are provisional. When you enter these programs you are not a medical student, just because an undergrad program like the JMP is BMedSc + MD concurrently doesn’t mean it is comparable to doing a BMed Sci and a MD sequentially at UWA.

This is an inaccurate classification and you were dismissive of A1 and LMG who tried to tell you otherwise, and LMG was just pointing that out to you before you flamed her.

p.s. you don’t need to be defining psychology terms to LMG, trust me after a doctorates degree in the field i’m sure she knows what narcissistic is
 

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But you were dismissive and inaccurate.... it wasn't an immature comment, it was highlighting why you should be cautious with the manner of your posts. It's not immature or narcissistic to point out problems in a post. I personally appreciate it whenever someone does this for me (both online and IRL) as it can point out issues I might not have been aware of at the time.

Aside from this, though - do you have any unresolved queries out of all of this? If you haven't seen already, A1 created an excellent summary table which groups each of the universities into direct/provisional entry and highlights their current admissions criteria which you'd probably find useful: [Undergrad] - (2020 Updated) Med schools Selection Criteria Y12s & Non-standards
Thanks a lot Crow I will check that out. Of course, I like to be corrected too! And yes, perhaps I was inaccurate and dismissive - but the point I'm trying to make is that the way which you correct people can hurt people depending on how you phrase your language. Calling someone dismissive and inaccurate is undoubtedly going to be hurtful towards a student who is naive and lacks the knowledge or experience in the field of medicine, and is just trying to find out more information. I'm sure that as doctors you would know that how you communicate towards patients (and people in general) is really important, and if the way you talk is arrogant or hurtful, you can be in big trouble and actually end up losing your job. That is the point I'm trying to make - and it really didn't feel like I was being responded to with respect.

p.s. dotwingz - ucatboy asked for the definition no?
 

dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator
"And as for accusing LMG! of being narcissistic, first search up what that word means before throwing around buzzwords, then come back and tell me what part of her response is so narcissistic to you." He actually did.

What may be clearly defined in your opinion may not be to others - showing respect and empathy for those less knowledgable than you would be a good start as a mature adult.
 

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ucatboy

MD II
Valued Member
Besides, she was calling me dismissive and inaccurate, which by no means shows the maturity of an adult who appears to be willing to help in a kind way.
I think you might have taken her words too personally, as she only tried to point out some flaws in your reasoning for what classifies as an undergraduate or provisional course. If we look at things objectively, you dismissed some important details (= dismissive) and provided some inaccurate information (= inaccurate), did you not? What makes you think that anyone who points out your mistakes (with the intention of helping you, might I add) is immature? Are you saying that you're beyond approach or immune to criticism? If you truly want to be the adult here, take her and other people's feedback and criticism on board to improve your classification of the different medical programs. That would be the mature thing to do.

I understand you are all (or mostly) trained professionals in the field of medicine, and I appreciate the service you are providing free of cost, but being rude in your responses doesn't help optimistic students trying to find answers to the unknown.
Thanks for the flattery, but with the exception of our most senior members, the majority of us are either in the same position as you (applying for medicine) or studying medicine. I apologise if any of my responses came off rude but think about the situation from my perspective (or any other member's perspective, for that matter): what classifies as undergraduate and provisional medicine has already been clearly defined and the information is readily accessible on the forum, but someone is repeatedly trying to create their own classification based on arbitrary rules. When their errors in their reasoning are pointed out they immediately lash out at other members and accuse them of being narcissitic. How would you react in this situation?

And as for proclaiming yourself to be an "optomistic student trying to find answers to the unknown", get off your high horse buddy. You are not finding answers to the unknown, you're merely re-tracing the footsteps of those who did the research before you and made it readily accessible on the forum for you. Like I said before, what you're doing is admirable but it's not necessary - you don't get brownie points for reinventing the wheel.

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I can see you've Googled the definition of narcissism but you still haven't explained to me which of those attributes are applicable to LMG! or her response. Her taking time of her day to reason with you is neither selfish nor entitled - in fact, you may be the one who thinks they're entitled to other people's knowledge and time, dumping any questions you have on the forum for others to answer while offering nothing in return. Similarly, your constant demand for other people's "respect" and "empathy" comes off as a need for admiration as well. The irony here is that LMG! works as a clinical psychologist, so throwing psychology terms at her shows a blatant lack of respect for her profession. You keep telling us that as members of the medical profession we should be respectful to you, while you completely disregard someone else's profession.

Ucatboy - how is it not something I shouldn't be worrying about --> senior years pass by fast, and planning things out is important.
The senior years do pass by fast, I can attest to that. But I think that there's a time and place for everything, you won't be caught out or left behind if you don't do all this research and prereading. You don't need that much time to learn the ins and outs of every medical course in Australia, and you aren't expected to either. Make the most of your last few years of high school before you become an adult, you can always do research later.

What may be clearly defined in your opinion may not be to others - showing respect and empathy for those less knowledgable than you would be a good start as a mature adult.
Respect is earned, not given. If you insult others who try to help you, don't expect us to be kind and conciliatory in our responses. Be humble for once, we're not expecting anything from helping you, but at least don't insult us when things don't go your way or you take a message the wrong way.
 
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threefivetwo

suffering from chronic swag
Btw threefivetwo, copying my response doesn't help either - p.s. I'm not an adult!
You don’t get a “get out of jail free” card because you’re in Year 10, and you certainly aren’t special because you are. You want to play games like an adult? You’re going to be treated like one. Welcome to the real world. No one cares.
 
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