Graduate Entry Medicine Advice Requests

Discussion in 'GAMSAT' started by Ayaz, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Ayaz

    Ayaz New Member

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    Hello Everyone,
    I have just completed my first year of my undergraduate degree this year however I am planning on changing to another undergraduate degree for next year. I am actually aiming for entry into postgraduate medicine. I have enquired and found out that it is possible to complete a 3 year bachelors degree in 2 years because of the 3 trimesters in a year. Hence, this is called a 2 year accelerated bachelor degree. I know that the GPA is calculated for 3 years of undergraduate study. I am just confused on what years of study will GEMSAS use to calculate my GPA. Will GEMSAS only use my grades from my 2 year accelerated bachelor degree or will they use my grades from my 2 year accelerated bachelor degree + my first year of my first undergraduate course, to calculate my GPA? I understand that to apply for post graduate medicine, you need to have graduated or be in your final year of your bachelors degree. This is why I think GEMSAS and the universities should only use my grades from my 2 year accelerated bachelor degree to calculate my GPA since it is the only degree I would have completed by that time ( not my grades from my first year of my first undergraduate degree as it would be incomplete). Just need some clarification. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Mana

    Mana Resident Medical Officer Administrar

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    Different schools may calculate this differently, so you will have to clarify this with GEMSAS. As far as I know, there are some (most if not all) medical schools from the GEMSAS consortium who will NOT accept a 2 year accelerated bachelor's degree - I can confirm for example that the University of Notre Dame will not consider a 2 year accelerated bachelor's degree to satisfy the requirements of having completed a bachelor's degree for the purposes of entry into medicine.
     
  3. Ayaz

    Ayaz New Member

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    Okay thanks Mana. So then, it seems that if you do a 3 year bachelors degree, you are eligible to apply to more postgraduate medical universities in comparison to applying with a 2 year accelerated bachelors degree. By looking into this, I was just trying to save a year in the future due to the year of study I have lost this year.
     
  4. Mana

    Mana Resident Medical Officer Administrar

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    What I would be most careful about is the very possible scenario that NO graduate-entry university accepts applicants who are using a 2 year accelerated bachelor's degree, which I think may actually be the case.

    Oh, that and choosing a degree for the purposes of getting into medicine rather than on its own merits (but surely you knew that already)?
     
  5. Ayaz

    Ayaz New Member

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    From the Graduate Australian Medical Schools Admissions Guide 2018, I found out that Australian National University, Deakin University, Griffith University, The University of Western Australia and the University of Wollongong accept 2 year accelerated bachelor degrees to be considered for entry into their postgraduate medical courses. However this may change in the future, by the time I apply to GEMSAS in a few years time. You were right Mana, that the University of Notre Dame (Fremantle and Sydney) doesn't accept 2 year accelerated undergraduate degrees along with University of Melbourne and University of Queensland. You're also right, this might me very risky as I might not be eligible to apply to any postgraduate medical universities in the future. And yes, I am aware that of choosing a degree for the purposes of getting into medicine rather than on its own merits. Thanks for the clarification Mana.
     
  6. Imad Jabali

    Imad Jabali New Member

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    Hope everyone is doing well,

    I'm currently in my final semester of medical science with a GPA of 5.5. I know my GPA is very low for med, however, I'm still driven and adamant to study medicine. I plan on doing honours next year to bump my GPA and from what I understood getting a first class honors bumps up the GPA by a whole 1 point, meaning my GPA will be close to 6.5? If somebody can confirm this please as well???!!!

    One thing I must say I really don't want to start another bachelors degree.

    If anybody can give me advice as to what I can do next that'll be great

    Regards,

    Anas
     
  7. Crow

    Crow Moderator Moderator

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    Hello and welcome to MSO!
    I'm going to assume you are applying for postgraduate entry medicine as you posted under the GAMSAT subforum and will be considered a graduate after this semester. If indeed you are applying for postgraduate entry, is 5.5 your GEMSAS-calculated GPA or simply the GPA calculated by your university? I'd suggest you refer to the GEMSAS guide to determine how the different GEMSAS consortium universities will calculate your GPA, as well as use the GPA calculator here (GEMSAS).

    If your GEMSAS GPA is 5.5 and you're a non-rural applicant, you are correct that this is too low for med, even with an outstanding GAMSAT score and portfolio (if applicable) to offset the (relatively) low GPA.
    It's definitely not a blanket rule like this - this will depend more on how the universities you are applying to consider honours in GPA calculations, and what your results were in your first, second and third year of your undergraduate degree. GEMSAS generally calculates GPA based off your three most recent FTE years of study, meaning that (for example) if the first year of your undergrad contained your best results and the final year contained the worst, doing an honours year could bring down your GPA because the calculation would no longer include your best undergraduate year in the calculations. Naturally if your first year GPA was your worst and your last two the best, then this will bring your GPA up if you achieve well in your honours. Again, I'll reiterate that different universities calculate GPA differently so the overall result is going to be highly dependent on where you plan to apply.

    If you are only planning on doing honours to boost your GPA to gain entry to medicine, then I personally would advise against this because:

    a) Getting first-class honours (while achievable) is not an easy feat without significant effort, and an honours year with a lower result than this could actually bring your GPA down further (or only increase it by a small, but insignificant - for the purposes of becoming competitive for graduate entry medicine - amount).

    b) The most likely outcome would still be that you miss out on gaining entry to medicine at the completion of your honours year.

    c) To be very honest, even if your GPA (assuming GEMSAS GPA) was brought up to a 6.5, you'd still find it difficult to become competitive for entry into graduate med without a very solid GAMSAT (and portfolio, if you were to apply to UNDA or Wollongong) to back it up. Though, this is hard to say as you haven't indicated what your GAMSAT score is (or if you've even sat it yet).
    Do you have a plan B other than medicine? The reality is that most medicine applicants will miss out, simply due to the supply of applicants well exceeding the number of medical school positions available. My advice would be to pursue an alternative career path that you'd be satisfied in should medicine not work out for you - preferably one with solid employment opportunities.

    Unfortunately medical science graduates are not particularly sought after, and most (even those with honours) won't find employment in a related area without further (possibly unrelated) study that actually qualifies them for a specific job in the workforce.

    ETA: If you apply to USyd or UQ with a strong GAMSAT score, then you don't necessarily need a high GPA (as both of these only use GPA as a hurdle requirement) as they both make offers based off GAMSAT score and subsequent interview result. You could also consider sitting UCAT and applying to undergraduate entry schools as a non-standard applicant; you'll be eligible to apply to WSU, JMP, Curtin (once your degree is complete), JCU (doesn't use UCAT in calculations but places weighting on written application and rurality for interview invites and interview and rurality for place offers) and Bond (provided you lift your GPA to ~6 and are in a financial position to apply).
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  8. Eliden

    Eliden New Member

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    Sorry in advance for the long post. I found out today that I missed on umat entry to UoN by two marks in s1 (met other criteria). Needless to say i am bummed!

    This has made me re-evaluate my options for postgrad entry.

    I always thought my Bachelor degree GPA was too low to even entertain the idea of graduate entry. I started it almost 17 years ago, didn't attend numerous exams etc. However, i did clean up my act a bit for the final year and a half or so that i attended (got a credit average) and then completed a Grad dip some years later. I achieved a D-HD average for the grad dip. Knowing that Notre Dame will accept Grad Dips towards their 3 year FTE study requirement, i just had a look at the gemsas website and discovered i may have a better 3 year FTE gpa than i first thought.

    For my recent undergrad application, UAC says my Grad dip was equiv to 1.63 years FTE and my not so awesome bachelor was 4.32 years FTE. To get to 3 years FTE, i worked out I'd need to count all of my grad dip plus 22/70 credit points obtained from bach degree. Subjects were 3cp each and thus 7 of them amount to 21. This is my problem..

    To obtain exactly 22cp, i'd have to dig back to 2005, the year i failed multiple subjects... i wouldn't even know how to enter all of that into the calculator..! However i am sure that doing so would be BAD!!

    Assuming Notre Dame would accept 21cp instead of 22, Gemsas would put my 3 yr FTE GPA at 6.58 weighted, 6.34 unweighted for both Grad Dip + Bachelor. I believe having to put 4 or more failures for years 2005 and prior would seriously impede my chances.

    How important are UAC FTE study determinations? Would it be worth doing one postgrad subject somewhere somehow just to get one measly credit point equivalent?

    Or should i just stick with undergrad?
     
  9. Eliden

    Eliden New Member

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    OK you can ignore my post above as I paid the $35 to GEMSAS to be provided a realistic estimate of my GPA for different universities.

    According to GEMSAS my unweighted 3 year GPA for Notre Dame Sydney is 5.56. Minimum GPA they require is 5. Candidates are apparently ranked for interview by a combination of GPA, GAMSAT and portfolio.

    Does anyone know whether these criteria are weighted equally or not? Is GAMSAT worth more than GPA? Would I struggle to compete with other candidates with a relatively low 5.56 GPA?

    My GPA for UQ is 6.88 (which I guess would be irrelevant anyway as I believe they rank solely on GAMSAT), shame I can't move to QLD!
     
  10. q2017

    q2017 Regular Member

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    You can check out paging dr, and I won't lie 5.56 is on the low side but if it is above the minimum, that would mean that theoretically, when combined with an excellent portfolio+GAMSAT score you could get in. The main issue is that having a portfolio that is rated that highly is damn hard. Generally, a person with a phenomenal portfolio will usually have a GPA to match. As well, achieving a super high GAMSAT is not easy so having a high GPA would ease the burden on the above, but it still would not make achieving good marks in them easy by any means. There are people with 6.5+ GPA's who do not get invites so be mindful of that.

    If the formula is GPA/7+ GAMSAT/100, for you this yields a GPA score of 0.79, for someone with a GPA of 6.7 this gives a score of 0.95

    You would need an extra 18 marks in GAMSAT to offset this. If you consider the median GAMSAT mark to be 68ish, then you would need a GAMSAT of 84, not impossible but not easy by any feat. And this on top of the assumption that your portfolio is on the same level as those who typically are asked for interviews. I don't know what extra-curricular things you do but bear in mind even the average portfolio is really impressive, even many of those who do not get interview invites have pretty good portfolios. I am not trying to scare you but I am trying to put things into perspective.

    Edit: As mentioned by someone below, you might want to double check that calculation before making any decisions. If the GPA is indeed 5.66 then it would be an uphill battle to make yourself competitive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  11. Crow

    Crow Moderator Moderator

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    Are you a rural candidate? You would need an exceptional (and I mean really exceptional) GAMSAT and portfolio combination to offset the GPA in order to gain an interview at ND if you are non-rural, though it is possible.

    This year ND removed the weightings they give towards each criterion for interview and place offers from the GEMSAS guide and have told applicants they “no longer make that information public”. I strongly suspect this is because they’ve increased the emphasis they place on portfolio and interview (and potentially are now doing what Wollongong are doing and making place offers based solely off interview and portfolio score). I would say they would still be making GPA and GAMSAT both worth the same, but how heavily they influence place offers is now unknown.

    If you have an outstanding portfolio and manage to scrape an interview, it sounds like this would work in your favour! Good luck :)
     
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  12. lillysayse

    lillysayse New Member

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    Unfortunately I think you are unlikely to get an interview with that GPA.

    No one really knows how Notre Dame mark the portfolio; it's a mystery. You're going to want to bring that GPA up significantly to apply there. If your aim is to solely boost your GPA, I would consider a Graduate Diploma over honours.

    Also bear in mind that GEMSAS is notorious for making errors in GPA calculations, so make sure they line up with your own calculations. That's a huge difference between your UQ GPA and Notre Dame GPA. Do you know what is causing that?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  13. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    GPA for UQ is based off the most recent qualification, the Grad Dip by itself in this case.

    Since you are going to need a big Gamsat score to compensate for the GPA wouldn't it be a better proposition for you to aim for USyd instead, where your 5ish GPA doesn't disadvantage you against other applicants? For USyd you need Gamsat around 68-69 iirc to get an interview, then place offers are based on Gamsat + Interview score.
     
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  14. Eliden

    Eliden New Member

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    Thanks for that insight. I have no idea whether I'd be able to pull a miracle mark in the GAMSAT. I sat umat this year and missed out on an interview with UoN by 2 marks in section 1 (met all thresholds). Whatever i do it will be gamble, whether i do UCAT or GAMSAT they will both be new to me.

    Thank you q2017. I haven't looked into what's required for the ND portfolio but that sounds a little daunting. I haven't done much in the way of extra curricular activities, but i am nesrly 35 and raising 2 kids. Also supporting a husband who recently endured a battle with cancer. I imagine I'd be able to make a decent case for myself but no idea if it would be compelling.

    Lillysayse, are you suggesting i undertake some additional post grad study to boost my GPA? I have already done a grad dip; my gpa for that was 6.88. If i absolutely had to i could do further postgrad study but what, i have no idea. I'd really rather not ifi can avoid it because I'm already in my mid 30s and have amassed a sizable hecs debt. As A1 said, the reason for the discrepancy between GPAs is that my grad dip GPA was a D/HD average, my bach degree is a lot less, i was young and stupid and didn't show up to multiple exams.

    A1, that is interesting thank you. USYD is not mentioned on the GEMSAS admission guide. I'm intrigued. Do they accept post grad study for their GPA calc? Because my bach GPA on its own would not be over 5.

    Oh, and not rural unfortunately :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2018
  15. q2017

    q2017 Regular Member

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    Eliden USYD does not accept anything other than a bachelor's. You could try doing a 6 month- 1 year Flinders grad dip and then apply as a Flinders student, the GAMSAT requirement is much lower that way. It was 62 this year for Flinder's non-rural grads. Though that would only be feasible if you were a SA resident or if moving to SA is not an issue. Realistically, for a person with kids obtaining a decent portfolio is going to be so time consuming that you may as well just keep trying for undergrad. Redoing a bachelor's I imagine is not something that you could do right now.
     
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  16. Eliden

    Eliden New Member

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    Sounds like I'd better smash the UCAT then...

    The QAS info page on the UAC website reads as though they include all tertiary study not just bach, are you certain USyd would ignore my Grad Dip if i got a QAS? So it would be a waste of $128..?

    Thank you!
     
  17. q2017

    q2017 Regular Member

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    UAC will give you a GPA for every tertiary study you have ever done, so if you did a bachelor's, a master's, a grad dip etc all of them are graded but USYD only considers the bachelor's GPA.
     
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  18. Eliden

    Eliden New Member

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    Ahh ok, thank you very much
     

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