Graduate Entry Medicine Advice Requests

[hp90]

Thanks A1 for your responses. I see so much input from you in this forum, you are very kind and very helpful.

Regarding Newcastle's lack of interest ; I've been told or read somewhere that they would've seen that he had an interview offer from Monash, and so they then overlook him (even though the Monash offer is no guarantee of entry). What a bizarre system.

A1 - (or anyone else !) - do you have an opinion on whether to study a degree at Melbourne or at Monash (in an attempt to get into post-grad in Victoria) ? As I understand it, the pro's for Monash are that if you graduate Monash you can do post-grad at Monash, Melbourne, Deakin. But if you graduate Melbourne, you are not eligible for Monash.

But the (potential) pro's for Melbourne, in my boys case, is that because he scored >99 ATAR, he could access a FFP spot at Melbourne if he graduates Melbourne only (with WAM > 75). I know the $$ is seriously large, but it is still worth considering if he misses standard-entry to CSP? It'll take a lot to pay off, but it's not out of the question. (Although, I've also read or heard somewhere; FFP are not guaranteed an intern position. I don't really understand what that means exactly, but, does this present a risk that the studies are worthless if no internship can be arranged ?

Bill

JMP offers interviews to everyone eligible to receive one, regardless of wherever else people have applied. Universities cannot see where else people have applied to. I know of a few people who were offered interviews, and subsequently places, at both Monash and JMP so I believe it would be an issue with the application process somewhere. JMP requires a UAC application and an application directly to Uni of Newcastle, did both get submitted? I would say call UAC and check with them. There is not much we can do on MSO other than speculate.

Regarding internships, FFP students in VIC are guaranteed an internship in VIC, they are Priority 1. Generally all Aus med students are guaranteed an internship in Aus, it just may not be where they want.

 

[jintei]

Thanks Jintei for your reply and thoughts. In regard to JMP, it would seem they overlooked him because Monash offered him an interview. How sad is this system !

No - can't risk trying to improve ATAR. Are you saying that for any re-application next year, UCAT has to be re-sat ? Can he not re-use the 3200 he already got ?

Tim.

No problem! In regards to JMP, I did get both JMP and monash interview offers. so I guess there must be a miscommunication here, good to confirm if it was their fault or not!
And yes, UCAT results are only valid for 1 year.

JMP offers interviews to everyone eligible to receive one, regardless of wherever else people have applied. Universities cannot see where else people have applied to. I know of a few people who were offered interviews, and subsequently places, at both Monash and JMP so I believe it would be an issue with the application process somewhere. JMP requires a UAC application and an application directly to Uni of Newcastle, did both get submitted? I would say call UAC and check with them. There is not much we can do on MSO other than speculate.

Regarding internships, FFP students in VIC are guaranteed an internship in VIC, they are Priority 1. Generally all Aus med students are guaranteed an internship in Aus, it just may not be where they want.

I being one of them.

 

[A1]

Regarding Newcastle's lack of interest ; I've been told or read somewhere that they would've seen that he had an interview offer from Monash, and so they then overlook him (even though the Monash offer is no guarantee of entry).

As has been mentioned VTAC/Monash and UAC/JMP work independently, one does not exclude the other. And even if they were in the same state/system applicants are entitled to get multiple interviews that they qualify for.

I've also read or heard somewhere; FFP are not guaranteed an intern position. I don't really understand what that means exactly, but, does this present a risk that the studies are worthless if no internship can be arranged ?

Technically the COAG Agreement guarantees internships only to CSP students (by the state gov where they graduate). In practice the allocation system in every state gives domestic FFP graduates the same Priority as CSP, so FFPs are indirectly guaranteed as well.

Last several years there have been 3400-3500 intern spots a year. With 2900-3000 CSPs they have 500 spare spots so no problems making the 250ish FFPs same Priority. (The remaining 250 spots go to around 500 Int'l grads).

But the (potential) pro's for Melbourne, in my boys case, is that because he scored >99 ATAR, he could access a FFP spot at Melbourne if he graduates Melbourne only (with WAM > 75). I know the $$ is seriously large, but it is still worth considering if he misses standard-entry to CSP?

We hear the Monash graduate entry is still highly competitive. Otoh the UMelb 99.0+ FFP pathway is not 100% guaranteed either (subject to passing the MMI which we have speculated could be used to prune how many are passed). Relatively the UMelb pathway gives higher probability but I don't which I would choose myself to suggest.

 

[ParentBill]

As has been mentioned VTAC/Monash and UAC/JMP work independently, one does not exclude the other. And even if they were in the same state/system applicants are entitled to get multiple interviews that they qualify for.


Technically the COAG Agreement guarantees internships only to CSP students (by the state gov where they graduate). In practice the allocation system in every state gives domestic FFP graduates the same Priority as CSP, so FFPs are indirectly guaranteed as well.

Last several years there have been 3400-3500 intern spots a year. With 2900-3000 CSPs they have 500 spare spots so no problems making the 250ish FFPs same Priority. (The remaining 250 spots go to around 500 Int'l grads).


We hear the Monash graduate entry is still highly competitive. Otoh the UMelb 99.0+ FFP pathway is not 100% guaranteed either (subject to passing the MMI which we have speculated could be used to prune how many are passed). Relatively the UMelb pathway gives higher probability but I don't which I would choose myself to suggest.

Thanks again A1. Last question ! If he does a gap year, and re-does his UCAT, and if it is sufficiently high (and in conjunction with 99.25 ATAR), could he be invited to re-sit an MMI ? Is he allowed to re-sit MMI ?

 

[jintei]

Thanks again A1. Last question ! If he does a gap year, and re-does his UCAT, and if it is sufficiently high (and in conjunction with 99.25 ATAR), could he be invited to re-sit an MMI ? Is he allowed to re-sit MMI ?

Last time I checked monash's website, you can only sit the interview once.
hence next year, his scores will be: new UCAT, 99.25 ATAR (if he doesn't retake a subject to improve it), original interview score.
For other unis, sorry I don't have too much knowledge.
Do please update on the JMP situation if you want to, want to know what error there was.

 

[A1]

Thanks again A1. Last question ! If he does a gap year, and re-does his UCAT, and if it is sufficiently high (and in conjunction with 99.25 ATAR), could he be invited to re-sit an MMI ? Is he allowed to re-sit MMI ?

As jintei mentioned, if can't go interstate there isn't much benefit in retrying for Monash. UCAT 3200 is a very high score (i.e. little room for a significant increase), coupled with same ATAR and the done interview it's likely to be the same outcome.

If your son can go interstate, a 3200 again would get interviews with JMP, Adelaide, possibly UWA and possibly WSU if the VR score is good. He can also try JCU. All the best.

 

[ParentBill]

Last time I checked monash's website, you can only sit the interview once.
hence next year, his scores will be: new UCAT, 99.25 ATAR (if he doesn't retake a subject to improve it), original interview score.
For other unis, sorry I don't have too much knowledge.
Do please update on the JMP situation if you want to, want to know what error there was.

Thanks Jintei, yes, I will update you on JMP - could take a while to get to the bottom of it, but will do. Thankyou so much again for your input.

As jintei mentioned, if can't go interstate there isn't much benefit in retrying for Monash. UCAT 3200 is a very high score (i.e. little room for a significant increase), coupled with same ATAR and the done interview it's likely to be the same outcome.

If your son can go interstate, a 3200 again would get interviews with JMP, Adelaide, possibly UWA and possibly WSU if the VR score is good. He can also try JCU. All the best.

Yep, thanks again A1. Absolutely agree your (and Jintei) overall advice.

I am very frustrated that the MMI cannot be taken again.

And I am furious that we cannot access Monash MMI feedback. We cannot verify that there's been no "glitch" or error, and we cannot get confirmation that everything was correctly recorded. For closure, my boy really needs this. I can and would accept notification of a score that's not upper end - of course nobody's child is infallible, especially on any given day under pressure. But given my boy's social skills, his intent, his love of people, and his smarts, something just feels amiss. To be left in the dark is unacceptable. I fear my son, for one, has lost heart for all this, and who could blame him. Certainly not me. No wonder our country is screaming for more medico's.

 

[jintei]

Yep, thanks again A1. Absolutely agree your (and Jintei) overall advice.

I am very frustrated that the MMI cannot be taken again.

And I am furious that we cannot access Monash MMI feedback. We cannot verify that there's been no "glitch" or error, and we cannot get confirmation that everything was correctly recorded. For closure, my boy really needs this. I can and would accept notification of a score that's not upper end - of course nobody's child is infallible, especially on any given day under pressure. But given my boy's social skills, his intent, his love of people, and his smarts, something just feels amiss. To be left in the dark is unacceptable. I fear my son, for one, has lost heart for all this, and who could blame him. Certainly not me. No wonder our country is screaming for more medico's.

UK unis and postgrad entry to some australian unis give out scores (or you can request them), but ultimately I do believe it is a shame that scores cannot be retrieved by applicants in most undergrad entry unis here in australia. Multiple people have already been quite angry about this, so it is totally understandable.

Personally, what I think of the MMI is that there are boxes to tick on the marker's sheets. I am confident in saying that your son has good communication skills. Also not saying your son did not do a good job in the interview, it might just be that certain words and concepts were not touched upon-hence leading to the marker not being able to tick the box.
As of my knowledge, some other MMIs can be re-taken again. the JMP one at least, or even reapplying to UNSW etc. would give a fresh chance your son to start again.

As there is a will, there is a way. Thanks for speaking up about your experiences, and people on this forum are sure glad to assist if he applies to medicine again, either through a gap year, non-standard, or postgrad pathway.

Thanks Jintei, yes, I will update you on JMP - could take a while to get to the bottom of it, but will do. Thankyou so much again for your input.

Sure, no issue. thank you for shining light onto this issue-good to discover and reflect to the admin feedback if found.
Speaking about the glitch or error part, I do remember that there was a google form that we had to fill in right after the interview, saying that there were no glitches on OUR end.
I do agree that you could email them and ask if there were any errors on their end, but it is unlikely we get a concrete response.

 

[A1]

I fear my son, for one, has lost heart for all this

Please tell your son not to. A few MSO members had to try 4 years in a row before getting in, "failing" in one year is just a minor hiccup.

In light of this I suggest your son
- do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway
- choose a course (not necessarily Biomed if it's not his strong suit) that he can maintain GPA 6.5+
- do a UCAT 3200+ again, apply in 1st/2nd year to UNSW, WSU, JMP, JCU

That's 8 more chances to get in. If still unsuccessful sit GAMSAT for the graduate-entry schools. If still unsuccessful then fall back on the 50/50 chance UMelb FFP. I feel optimistic one of these attempts will succeed.

 

[jintei]

Please tell your son not to. A few MSO members had to try 4 years in a row before getting in, "failing" in one year is just a minor hiccup.

In light of this I suggest your son
- do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway
- choose a course (not necessarily Biomed if it's not his strong suit) that he can maintain GPA 6.5+
- do a UCAT 3200+ again, apply in 1st/2nd year to UNSW, WSU, JMP, JCU

That's 8 more chances to get in. If still unsuccessful sit GAMSAT for the graduate-entry schools. If still unsuccessful then fall back on the 50/50 chance UMelb FFP. I feel optimistic one of these attempts will succeed.

Also can gap year and apply everywhere again, except UQ.

 

[A1]

Also can gap year and apply everywhere again

I think gap year with ATAR 99.25 doesn't bring much more benefit.
It adds Adelaide (and possibly UWA) whereas doing uni with GPA 6.5+ adds UNSW in return.

 

[ParentBill]

Please tell your son not to. A few MSO members had to try 4 years in a row before getting in, "failing" in one year is just a minor hiccup.

In light of this I suggest your son
- do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway
- choose a course (not necessarily Biomed if it's not his strong suit) that he can maintain GPA 6.5+
- do a UCAT 3200+ again, apply in 1st/2nd year to UNSW, WSU, JMP, JCU

That's 8 more chances to get in. If still unsuccessful sit GAMSAT for the graduate-entry schools. If still unsuccessful then fall back on the 50/50 chance UMelb FFP. I feel optimistic one of these attempts will succeed.

Thanks again A1, and agree your thinking. Just for clarity ; when you say "do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway" , is this distinct from the "UMelb" FFP ?

As I understand it, there are only 2 ways into Melb :

(1) Do a degree and scored well, sit GAMSAT and score well, then do well in Interview and be chosen for CSP standard spot. Open to people who perhaps scored less than 99.0.
(2) If you scored over 99.0 and if you WAM >75, pass the Interview, and be granted a full fee spot.

Am I correct ? Or is there another way ?

Tim.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Thanks again A1, and agree your thinking. Just for clarity ; when you say "do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway" , is this distinct from the "UMelb" FFP ?

As I understand it, there are only 2 ways into Melb :

(1) Do a degree and scored well, sit GAMSAT and score well, then do well in Interview and be chosen for CSP standard spot. Open to people who perhaps scored less than 99.0.
(2) If you scored over 99.0 and if you WAM >75, pass the Interview, and be granted a full fee spot.

Am I correct ? Or is there another way ?

Tim.

The FFP and 99.0+ pathways are the same thing, yep.

The other way is if you scored over 99.90, then you’re eligible for a CSP as far as I know (rather than FFP).

 

[jintei]

Thanks again A1, and agree your thinking. Just for clarity ; when you say "do the UMelb 99.0+ pathway" , is this distinct from the "UMelb" FFP ?

As I understand it, there are only 2 ways into Melb :

(1) Do a degree and scored well, sit GAMSAT and score well, then do well in Interview and be chosen for CSP standard spot. Open to people who perhaps scored less than 99.0.
(2) If you scored over 99.0 and if you WAM >75, pass the Interview, and be granted a full fee spot.

Am I correct ? Or is there another way ?

Tim.

another pathway called chancellor's exist
You get 99.9+ ATAR, you can do any undergrad. get a min WAM in that undergrad, pass the interview, and then get a CSP.

Which is basically the same as the FFP pathway but it's a CSP.

 

[FumbledTheBagX4]

I was just looking at the GEMSAS GPA conversion table on the 2023-2024 GEMSAS Admissions guide and saw that a Distinction converts to a 6.75 for most universities. Am I misinterpreting this somehow? I had always believed a distinction to be a 6. Just wanted to double check before I get my hopes up.

 

[A1]

I was just looking at the GEMSAS GPA conversion table on the 2023-2024 GEMSAS Admissions guide and saw that a Distinction converts to a 6.75 for most universities. Am I misinterpreting this somehow? I had always believed a distinction to be a 6. Just wanted to double check before I get my hopes up.

GEMSAS counts on the numeric marks that almost all Aus unis (except UQ) indicate on your transcript. GEMSAS scale is 70-74= 6, 75-79= 6.5, 80+= 7.

UQ only indicates Distinction, which is 75-84 but not shown. This means in the 6.5-7.0 GEMSAS range so given the midpoint 6.75.
(If this Distinction was from 75-79 the UQ student gains 0.25, if it was from 80-84 they lose 0.25).

 

[UoAscrub]

Hey guys just want to be completely upfront and honest year. UOA applicant who got quite depressed and demotivated after failing first year entry post interview invites with an 8/9 core GPA uoa scale I continued my degree and decided I still wanted to do med despite bombing my next two years compounded by personal issues that occurred during this time I decided to apply to med with my postgrad but still got rejected. I’m looking to apply all over, including to Australia my GEMSAS adjusted GPA according to table H conversions for the last 3 FTE years are as follows

Undergrad Y2: 5.94
Undergrad Y3: 6.0
Postgrad Y1: 6.625

I haven’t sat my GAMSAT yet but I started studying for it during October for 2024 March but I’m feeling pretty bleak and just lost with the whole process. I’m well aware that this GPA is not competitive and wanted to wander if it’s even a good idea to continue down this path. I know from my heart of hearts that I would love to be a doctor and can barely see myself outside the healthcare sector. Is it worth for me to potentially continue my studies and try and salvage my GPA or am I just pursuing a pipe dream at this point.
I know hypothetically it all hinges on my GAMSAT as well assuming I am able to bump my GPA but I just want to know whether or not it’s worth it.

Thanks for reading my long vent if you made it through, I really would appreciate any advice.

 

[A1]

I’m well aware that this GPA is not competitive and wanted to wander if it’s even a good idea to continue down this path.

You'll likely get better answers from the pagingdr.net forum, MSO is more for undergrad medicine. I'll describe what limited I know.

Your most-recent 3yr GPA is 6.19. For the 10ish GEMSAS grad-entry schools interview selection is by combination of GPA+GAMSAT, the rule-of-thumb formula is [GPA/7.0]+[GAMSAT/100] > 1.xx

I've heard the 1.xx mentioned as 1.62 in some year, so you'll need
[6.19GPA/7.0]+[74GAMSAT/100] = 1.624 to get an interview.

74 GAMSAT being around 98%ile is a tough challenge. Raising GPA to 6.5 reduces GAMSAT to a more reasonable 69 but you'll need Postgrad Y2 near 7.0 for that. Or you can try UCAT to get into 5-yr JMP (I specifically leave out WSU as its required UCAT for non-NSW has gone sky high).

 

[UoAscrub]

You'll likely get better answers from the pagingdr.net forum, MSO is more for undergrad medicine. I'll describe what limited I know.

Your most-recent 3yr GPA is 6.19. For the 10ish GEMSAS grad-entry schools interview selection is by combination of GPA+GAMSAT, the rule-of-thumb formula is [GPA/7.0]+[GAMSAT/100] > 1.xx

I've heard the 1.xx mentioned as 1.62 in some year, so you'll need
[6.19GPA/7.0]+[74GAMSAT/100] = 1.624 to get an interview.

74 GAMSAT being around 98%ile is a tough challenge. Raising GPA to 6.5 reduces GAMSAT to a more reasonable 69 but you'll need Postgrad Y2 near 7.0 for that. Or you can try UCAT to get into 5-yr JMP (I specifically leave out WSU as its required UCAT for non-NSW has gone sky high).

I applied to JMP this year and I’m being frank but I don’t think it’s possible for me, with 5-6 months of prep and milking out (a prep course) I got a 2890 UCAT which was difficult with balancing schoolwork while I do think I could potentially improve it a bit more the JMP aggregate cutoff this year was 3160 if I’m remembering correctly I have little to no confidence that I can achieve that if I’m being reasonable it just seems impossible. Thanks for your calculation though it gives good insight, I was just wondering I know that certain GEMSAS unis weight heavier on later years or I remember some universities even give a slight grade pump for post/grad works or like Deakin which weights heavier for more recent FTE work if I am not misremembering which I hope would help my chances even a little. Assuming I maintain a strong upwards trend I do believe I can achieve a reasonably good GAMSAT with the right prep.

 

[A1]

I was just wondering I know that certain GEMSAS unis weight heavier on later years or I remember some universities even give a slight grade pump for post/grad works or like Deakin which weights heavier for more recent FTE work if I am not misremembering which I hope would help my chances even a little. Assuming I maintain a strong upwards trend I do believe I can achieve a reasonably good GAMSAT with the right prep.

All the best with your endeavours. At MSO we have seen a few who tried 4 years of UMAT/UCAT before getting in.

As for how the unis/schools weight the FTE years and/or bonus GPA for postgrad degrees, it's all described in detail in the GEMSAS Guide
> https://gemsas.edu.au/images/pdf/2024-medicine-gemsas-admissions-guide.pdf