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HSFY 8th Paper

xyz

New Member
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greenglacier

Emeritus MSO Staff
Emeritus
BSNS104 didn't do podcasts when I took it. You'll soon learn that having every lecture podcasted is a real luxury. Personally I haven't had a lecture recorded officially in a long time due to the med lecture theatre not being set up for it.
 
Hey.. theres no podcasts for MAOR102 either, I'm pretty sure the majority of non-HSFY courses don't record.. but this doesn't mean you can't record!
At the beginning of the lecture just go up to the lecturer and ask to record - you'll suprisingly find alot of lecturers don't even mind being recorded so you can still get your podcasts :)
alternatively you can just place the recorder on your desk... the quality will obviously not be as good but I guess its audible.. not that I encourage this sort of thing :p
 

xyz

New Member
So you just go up to them, ask them if you can record and then give them an audio recorder to put on their desk?
 

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Ben

(╯°□°)╯︵ǝuᴉluosʇuǝpnʇ spǝɯ
[offtopic] I'd love to see someone trying to force a recording headset (like in PHSI) on a lecturer. [/offtopic]
 

xyz

New Member
Cool I might do that if the lecturers for BSNS speak too fast. I'm a little overly-compulsive about getting the exact phrasing and context in which the lecturer says stuff :lol:. Thanks for the help guys
 

OtagoLol

New Member
8th Paper

Hey guys, I have a few questions regarding doing an 8th paper for HSFY. Iv read as much info as i can find on these forums already, but i would really like some extra stuff answered.

1. Which paper? BSNS104, MAOR102 or Other?

From what I can find out, only BSNS and MAOR can allow someone to gain an A+ more easily with the least study time, however is this really true? or just biased opinion? There are only a small number of people on this forum that has given an opinion on their own experiences with an 8th paper. Would this mean there are other easy papers which you could more easily get an A+ in?, just that no ones whos done them are on this forum?

Based on peoples opinions on this forums I see that economics is the more appealing choice but slightly harder than Maori. Im more personally interested in economics but I would prefer an easier paper. That being said, I dont enjoy writing essays which is required in maori...

2. Structure of BSNS/MAORI?

All i know so far is BSNS is 25% mid year, 75% final with plussage and that maori has 2 essays/mcq in the final. Also 3/2lectures per week respectively.

But how are the exams for BSNS set out? (i cant access previous ones, it says theyre embargoed) Is it all mcq/short answer or mini essays etc?
Are there essays for BSNS?
Are the textbooks very useful/necessary for BSNS/Maori?
Is it true we have to write essays as assignments for maori?
Are there any labs/tutorials that are compulsory? Do they contribute to your final grade?
Are there assignments for BSNS?
Do we need to learn a lot of stats for BSNS ( I havent done any before, only Calc)

3. Is it worth it? - would doing an 8th paper and getting a high grade in it cause a decrease in grades for the other 3 (due to less time spent on them)? Or does it not have much/any effect on the other 3 papers (assuming good time management)? Or is it better to just dedicate the time to just 3 papers and not do an 8th?

I have heard rumours that you only need to study for about 2 days before the BSNS final exam to get an A+, is this true?

I know that MAORI and BSNS are not as demanding as the HSFY papers but by how much exactly? (how much time do we need to spend on them generally)?

Finally, how do I contact studylink saying that Im adding an extra paper and i need to add it to my student loan? or is this done automatically by the uni?

Thanks for any help!
 

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Cathay

Train Driver
Emeritus
I'm gonna list a few of your questions (that I can address) and make an effort at addressing them:
1) Would this mean there are other easy papers which you could more easily get an A+ in?, just that no ones whos done them are on this forum?

2) Im more personally interested in economics but I would prefer an easier paper. That being said, I dont enjoy writing essays which is required in maori...

3) Is it worth it? - would doing an 8th paper and getting a high grade in it cause a decrease in grades for the other 3 (due to less time spent on them)? Or does it not have much/any effect on the other 3 papers (assuming good time management)? Or is it better to just dedicate the time to just 3 papers and not do an 8th?

4) I have heard rumours that you only need to study for about 2 days before the BSNS final exam to get an A+, is this true?

5) Do we need to learn a lot of stats for BSNS ( I havent done any before, only Calc)
1. As GG has said here, if you take a paper other than PSYC, BSNS, or MAOR, don't count on getting A+, which would imply that these three are the "tried and true" 8th papers for A+. (Also notice that he said if you take PSYC make sure it's something you're interested in and will work harder for.)

2. You've pretty much answered your dilemma - if you don't like writing essays, and are interested in economics, then the fact that it is "harder" (by way of requiring you to contribute a little bit more time) would not bother you as much as if you were thrown in an essay exam on something you're not interested in. I am of the belief that you gain nothing by taking a paper perceived to be slightly easier than the other, if you have no interest in it.

3. I believe you're asking "how hard is it to do the time-management to not let the 8th paper drag down the others" - because the first part of your question assumes poor time-management while the next bit assumes good time-management. Judging by what GG has said about the 8th papers of choice here, they are nothing compared to a health sci paper, and you've survived having to juggle four health sci papers in the first semester, so if the extra couple of hours a week of studying dedicated to the 8th paper would drag down your ability to juggle only three full-blown health sci papers, then there must've been a drastic change in your studying between the semesters.

The value of the 8th paper depends on you. Remember that this is not all about second semester. If you have a particular blunder in one of the first semester papers (I know CHEM was evil for some), then you'll definitely want to take that 8th paper to wipe out that record. If you are uncertain about UMAT or anything in the future, perhaps take it to be on the safe side. If, on the other hand, you have a good UMAT and a good first semester average (I know a few that do) with no particular blunders, then there may not be such a need to take it for the grades, in which case one could seek an 8th paper of interest, or demonstrate confidence by not doing an 8th paper.

4. I should really let GG answer that one (seeing as he's the one that got 98 in it), but I'd say that depends on what you mean by only 2 days of study before the exam - if you meant as in no work during the semester and only studying for two days leading up to the exam, it's probably not true (even if it is, that would be terribly inadvisable). If, on the other hand, you meant consistent work throughout the semester with two days of dedicated intense studying before the exam, then it probably is true, and is in fact what I did for my first semester papers (I dedicated time to HUBS for much of the week leading up to it, then spent the weekend between HUBS and CELS studying CELS, the time between CELS and CHEM, uh, was mostly procrastinated away but I did do some CHEM, and then pure PHSI after CHEM exam), which seemed to have worked out somewhat okay.

5) I haven't read this up to confirm but I do believe HEAL192 involves plenty of stats, so perhaps best not to worry too much about getting stats involved? (Or if you are worried about stats, maybe worry about HEAL192 also.)


Disclaimer: the above are the comments of a health sci, should they contradict the opinions of Otago med students (namely the Health Sci God), discard the above as inaccurate.
 

OtagoLol

New Member
I'm gonna list a few of your questions (that I can address) and make an effort at addressing them:

1. As GG has said here, if you take a paper other than PSYC, BSNS, or MAOR, don't count on getting A+, which would imply that these three are the "tried and true" 8th papers for A+. (Also notice that he said if you take PSYC make sure it's something you're interested in and will work harder for.)

2. You've pretty much answered your dilemma - if you don't like writing essays, and are interested in economics, then the fact that it is "harder" (by way of requiring you to contribute a little bit more time) would not bother you as much as if you were thrown in an essay exam on something you're not interested in. I am of the belief that you gain nothing by taking a paper perceived to be slightly easier than the other, if you have no interest in it.

3. I believe you're asking "how hard is it to do the time-management to not let the 8th paper drag down the others" - because the first part of your question assumes poor time-management while the next bit assumes good time-management. Judging by what GG has said about the 8th papers of choice here, they are nothing compared to a health sci paper, and you've survived having to juggle four health sci papers in the first semester, so if the extra couple of hours a week of studying dedicated to the 8th paper would drag down your ability to juggle only three full-blown health sci papers, then there must've been a drastic change in your studying between the semesters.

The value of the 8th paper depends on you. Remember that this is not all about second semester. If you have a particular blunder in one of the first semester papers (I know CHEM was evil for some), then you'll definitely want to take that 8th paper to wipe out that record. If you are uncertain about UMAT or anything in the future, perhaps take it to be on the safe side. If, on the other hand, you have a good UMAT and a good first semester average (I know a few that do) with no particular blunders, then there may not be such a need to take it for the grades, in which case one could seek an 8th paper of interest, or demonstrate confidence by not doing an 8th paper.

4. I should really let GG answer that one (seeing as he's the one that got 98 in it), but I'd say that depends on what you mean by only 2 days of study before the exam - if you meant as in no work during the semester and only studying for two days leading up to the exam, it's probably not true (even if it is, that would be terribly inadvisable). If, on the other hand, you meant consistent work throughout the semester with two days of dedicated intense studying before the exam, then it probably is true, and is in fact what I did for my first semester papers (I dedicated time to HUBS for much of the week leading up to it, then spent the weekend between HUBS and CELS studying CELS, the time between CELS and CHEM, uh, was mostly procrastinated away but I did do some CHEM, and then pure PHSI after CHEM exam), which seemed to have worked out somewhat okay.

5) I haven't read this up to confirm but I do believe HEAL192 involves plenty of stats, so perhaps best not to worry too much about getting stats involved? (Or if you are worried about stats, maybe worry about HEAL192 also.)


Disclaimer: the above are the comments of a health sci, should they contradict the opinions of Otago med students (namely the Health Sci God), discard the above as inaccurate.
1. Thats the thing, only he has said it. A couple of ppl have backed him up but only a couple...what if some paper is even more appealing/just as easy?

2. That is true...i wouldnt be completely detached from maori but the essay aspect of it is a bit --, especially if we do it for an assignment.

3. True..
4. yea iv heard literally a few days before exam, cramming it in with no study previously..because its that easy apparently...but this is all rumour...

5. not worried about stats, just wondering how much it would involve..

Thanks for the reply
 

skyglow1

Regular Member
5. No, not much stats in HEAL. Don't stress about that, really. Would have no idea about the stats in BSNS.
 
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frootloop

House Surgeon
Moderator
1. Thats the thing, only he has said it. A couple of ppl have backed him up but only a couple...what if some paper is even more appealing/just as easy?

2. That is true...i wouldnt be completely detached from maori but the essay aspect of it is a bit --, especially if we do it for an assignment.

3. True..
4. yea iv heard literally a few days before exam, cramming it in with no study previously..because its that easy apparently...but this is all rumour...

5. not worried about stats, just wondering how much it would involve..

Thanks for the reply
1) I'm not sure you know who we're talking about here.... :p
2) If you don't like essays, then MAOR doesn't sound like a good paper for you (although *apparently* the essays were marked quite easily last year (I've heard rumours that MAOR may be 'made harder' this year, although I doubt there is much substance to them)).
[OFFTOPIC]I'm surprised you got so many replies already, considering when the thread was started :lol: although this is probably more a question for the HSFY2011 thread (where it has already been discussed...), so I'd suggest posting there rather than just starting a new thread for every question.[/OFFTOPIC]
 
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greenglacier

Emeritus MSO Staff
Emeritus
(1) Yes, there are limited accounts of the other 8th papers, but that's because almost no one does an 8th paper that isn't BSNS, MAOR, or PSYC. I've known two people who did - in both cases it brought their average down, but that was the sacrifice they were willing to make to do a paper that really interested them (and they both still got into med). What you have to realise is that it is actually pretty easy to get an A/A+ in a typical health sci paper compared to the average paper offered across the whole university. That's why I take the stance I do - if you want to take a paper apart from BSNS, MAOR, or PYSC then by all means do, but be prepared for it to be harder to get an A+ than your health sci papers. Such a paper would be an unknown, and it wouldn't be wise to expect it to be easy. BSNS, MAOR, and PSYC are popular options that have been taken by many students I've known so I can vouch for them being manageable.

(2) The BSNS104 final exam is 50 MCQ and 25 marks of short answer questions (which in my year were set out as a page worth 10 marks where you had to draw and annotate a graph, then 3 5 mark questions where you had to write a couple of paragraphs). The old lecturer for BSNS104 told us in advance what the short answer questions would be. I don't know if the new lecturer will also do this. The mid-semester is similar but shorter - 15 MCQ, 10 marks short answer. The lectures very closely follow the textbook, so pre-reading is really helpful. There's a one hour tutorial each week. It's optional, and there aren't any assignments, but each tutorial has a couple of prep questions to do on your own before the tutorial, then at the tutorial the tutor will check over them and help you with anything you're uncertain of. There's no stats in BSNS104, but it helps to be able to think in a fairly mathematical mindset - a lot of it is about graphs and relationships.

(3) I did BSNS104 and all I did was turn up to all the lectures and tutorials (which is more than most people!) and in the weekend did the pre-reading for that week (generally one chapter from the textbook per week) and the tutorial prep. I then did a few hours study before the final exam. It wasn't taxing in the slightest and I actually enjoyed it. In many ways MAOR (even though a bit easier) can be more stressful during the semester because you have to write a couple of essays - e.g. in my year the BIOC192 mid-semester (20%) was on a Saturday and the 2nd HEAL192 terms test (15%) the following Friday, and the MAOR students had a 20% essay due the Monday after that. The only mistake that most people make with BSNS is not turning up to/listening in lectures.
 

Cathay

Train Driver
Emeritus
1. Thats the thing, only he has said it. A couple of ppl have backed him up but only a couple...what if some paper is even more appealing/just as easy?

4. yea iv heard literally a few days before exam, cramming it in with no study previously..because its that easy apparently...but this is all rumour...
1. So, one person says it, a couple of backers, that's not bad given the number of Otago med students who still frequent the forum (and actively give advice to us health scis). Honestly, skyglow is occasionally around but right now only GG is as much of a MSO addict as myself and frootloop. You may have noticed this from the HSFY 2011 thread, where the bulk of the posting is done by current health scis + GG.

4. That depends on what "no study previously" means - if it means going to all lectures and tutes and making an active effort to learn the material but not doing much work outside of class, then that's not too surprising.
 

brin

New Member
Based on some of the complete morons I've met who passed it, I've concluded BSNS can't be very difficult.
 

Cathay

Train Driver
Emeritus
To explain what just happened there, for anyone who arrived here after this thread was created, this is the result of various 8th paper discussions merged into one thread as part of an effort by the moderation staff to clean up the NZ forums (which are currently cluttered with various threads of similar topic).
 

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skyglow1

Regular Member
1. So, one person says it, a couple of backers, that's not bad given the number of Otago med students who still frequent the forum (and actively give advice to us health scis). Honestly, skyglow is occasionally around but right now only GG is as much of a MSO addict as myself and frootloop. You may have noticed this from the HSFY 2011 thread, where the bulk of the posting is done by current health scis + GG.

4. That depends on what "no study previously" means - if it means going to all lectures and tutes and making an active effort to learn the material but not doing much work outside of class, then that's not too surprising.
I mostly lurk now. GG is more qualified than I am for answering these questions :) I can only say that having only 3 papers, one of them being HEAL which doesn't have labs but does have a tutorial instead, made second semester life very relaxed. But that's only if you think you can get away with doing 7 papers.
 

Cathay

Train Driver
Emeritus
Moved here from Potential HSFYers Read Me thread as it fits here better.
The 8th paper, for current and prospective HSFYers
Why (and why not) an eighth paper?
There are three common (and good) reasons to take an eighth paper:
1, You are very interested in the subject (and don't need a grade-bumper), in which case that's fair enough, go for it - if you get into med (and I suspect other professional programmes also) this would be one of the only times when you get to choose a paper of your interest, according to (the legendary) greenglacier.
2, You've made a blunder in a First Semester paper (this is where I remind prospective HSFYers that you have until the start of Second Semester to tell them that you want to do an 8th paper).
3, You're okay with your first semester results (a fair A+ average), but have not sat UMAT before (or are sitting on a mediocre UMAT pending another go) and are not confident with a second semester paper. (Notice the word AND - this will become important in a minute)
[box=Scenario where it is okay not to take an 8th paper]You're sitting on a good UMAT and a good S1 average, so that you can get much (>10%) lower S2 average and still maintain an overall average that will give you a Ranking Score of 78 or above using Greenglacier's formula below, and you have no interest in the paper other than to bump grades in case HEAL192 "is mean to you". In this case you have little to lose to HEAL, and there is a good chance that if you knew you had no choice but to do HEAL to its best, and had the extra time freed up by not doing an 8th paper, that you would do fairly well.[/box]

What marks will I need?

An aid to decision-making, particularly useful for those who already have a UMAT result. If you haven't sat UMAT before, probably best to assume a mediocre UMAT.
[box=The Infinite Wisdom of the Legendary greenglacier]In order to be eligible for undergraduate entry into 2nd year medicine, applicants must pass all HSFY papers with at least a B (70%). If this is the case, then all applicants are ranked by:

Average mark across best 7 papers in HSFY (which means that an 8th paper, if taken, can knock out the worst HSFY mark) - 66% weighting
UMAT score (sections 1, 2 and 3 weighted 45:45:10 respectively) - 34% weighting

Note that for UMAT it is the score that is used, NOT the percentile.

This can be viewed as a score calculated by the following formula: [box=formula](Mark in best paper + Mark in 2nd best paper + ... + Mark in 7th best paper)*2/21 + (UMAT S1 mark*0.45 + UMAT S2 mark*0.45 + UMAT S3 mark*0.1)/3[/box] The cut-off score for entry into the 2010 2nd year class through a first round offer (i.e. not off the waiting list) was somewhere between 77.2 and 77.5, which can approximately translate to one of the following:
30th percentile UMAT and 94% average
50th percentile UMAT and 92% average
80th percentile UMAT and 89% average
90th percentile UMAT and 87% average
95th percentile UMAT and 86% average[/box]

Okay, I need an 8th paper to bump my grades, which one should I do?
The tried-and-true approach: MAOR102, BSNS104, PSYC112
I'll let our resident guru, greenglacier, take over:
If you don't take MAOR102, BSNS104 or PSYC112, don't count on getting an A+. If you take PSYC112, make sure it's something you're interested in - I've seen people love it and people hate it. It's definitely more work than the other 2, but an A+ is quite achievable. I know many people who took PSYC112, loved it, and got a really good mark.
"Now wait a minute," I can hear you through the screen (not really), "what about the others? Surely there might be some that are easier than those three?"
Yes, there are limited accounts of the other 8th papers, but that's because almost no one does an 8th paper that isn't BSNS, MAOR, or PSYC. I've known two people who did - in both cases it brought their average down, but that was the sacrifice they were willing to make to do a paper that really interested them (and they both still got into med). What you have to realise is that it is actually pretty easy to get an A/A+ in a typical health sci paper compared to the average paper offered across the whole university. That's why I take the stance I do - if you want to take a paper apart from BSNS, MAOR, or PYSC then by all means do, but be prepared for it to be harder to get an A+ than your health sci papers. Such a paper would be an unknown, and it wouldn't be wise to expect it to be easy. BSNS, MAOR, and PSYC are popular options that have been taken by many students I've known so I can vouch for them being manageable.
Essentially, not to discourage the innovative spirit (trying new stuff is what got us, the human race, where we are, right?), but the tried-and-true papers are tried-and-true because they are known to work. If you head on to do the others, that is your choice, and I respect it, but I'll draw your attention to the phrase from the above quote "what you have to realise is that it is actually pretty easy to get an A/A+ in a typical health sci paper compared to the average paper offered across the whole university," so if you take another one, you'll be in uncharted waters, and how you'll do is anyone's guess. If anything, I feel that in terms of the papers you take to bump grades in HSFY, this is a better time to conform to known methods of success, rather than exploring new stuff (which may or may not end well in terms of getting into med.)

MAOR102 vs BSNS104
I've taken neither (being a health sci on break between semesters at time of writing), and don't actually intend to take an 8th paper after applying the decision process I've written about above. So I'll again pass over to Green "Health Sci God" Glacier.
MAOR102 - less content than BSNS104, and easier for most people. Just make sure you know what content it includes and that you'd like to learn it, and be prepared to have to write essays when other HSFYers are studying for mid-semester tests.

BSNS104 - easy if you're a maths person, very manageable if not. Plussage, so essentially 100% final exam - great during the semester because it really reduces the workload but make sure you attend the lectures and do 1-2 hours tutorial prep/reading each week. You can easily get an A+ with 6 hours work per week (and those 6 hours include lectures and tutorials).
I did BSNS104 and all I did was turn up to all the lectures and tutorials (which is more than most people!) and in the weekend did the pre-reading for that week (generally one chapter from the textbook per week) and the tutorial prep. I then did a few hours study before the final exam. It wasn't taxing in the slightest and I actually enjoyed it. In many ways MAOR (even though a bit easier) can be more stressful during the semester because you have to write a couple of essays - e.g. in my year the BIOC192 mid-semester (20%) was on a Saturday and the 2nd HEAL192 terms test (15%) the following Friday, and the MAOR students had a 20% essay due the Monday after that. The only mistake that most people make with BSNS is not turning up to/listening in lectures.
 
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sid_kudav

New Member
I picked Psyc. Lecture 1 was really interesting, one of my fav's from this whole year.

Seems like it will be fun =]
 

frootloop

House Surgeon
Moderator
Just for reference, MAOR102 has so far been one of, if not the, most interesting paper of the semester for me. That might just be me, but for anyone who is tossing over it in future because they think Maori will be 'boring', I think it depends a lot on your attitude towards the paper. Obviously if you walk into every lecture expecting to hate it, you will, but if you give it a shot, you might be surprised :)
ETA: Yay, 500 posts :D
 

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