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Intern Year Questions and Discussion

Do we have any say in what placements we get as an intern? Is it worth sending the JMO manager an email, requesting exposure to particularly specialities ?
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
Most hospitals will ask you to submit preferences, but you must bear in mind that rosters are tricky to write and not everyone gets exactly what they want. Interns have to fulfill a minimum time in surgery, ED and medicine in order to gain full registration, so the primary aim for workforce is to ensure you all have adequate exposure for accreditation purposes.
 
Putting in my preferences for my intern year next year. Is emergency Med good term to start off with? I’m interested in critical care and was wondering whether it’s possible to do EM as the 5th term as well?
 
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chinaski

Regular Member
Not really following your logic here. Emergency isn't a medical term. Do you mean, would you be able to complete two ED terms as an intern? If so, I would wager not, and would advise against in any case.
 

whoartthou

Regular Member
You run the risk of limiting your choice of specialties as a registrar by doing 2 ED terms. Unless you are absolutely sure you want to do ED I would recommend opening your options.
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
You run the risk of limiting your choice of specialties as a registrar by doing 2 ED terms.
I disagree. Rotations as a PGY1 have a negligible effect on training options. The bigger issue would be the personal limitation of rotation repeats during a year which us meant to deliver a breadth and depth of professional experience and exposures. PGY1 is specifically NOT about focused pathways. Given that many PGY1s function in a supernumerary role in emergency departments these days, ED in particular would be a poor term to repeat at that level. I doubt it would be allowed, in any case.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Putting in my preferences for my intern year next year. Is emergency Med good term to start off with? I’m interested in critical care and was wondering whether it’s possible to do EM as the 5th term as well?
Probably a bit coloured by my (and my partner's) experiences here but personally I think emergency medicine is a great term to start with as an intern (partner started with this, I started on the wards) - provided you do get a ward term in term 2 (i.e. not relief). I think it makes for better decision making processes in regards to ward work early on.

In terms of career progression, I do think the terms that you end up doing do affect your applications later. In terms of getting different experiences over the two JMO PGYs in NSW it may be possible to optimise your terms by doing two ED terms in intern year and then not doing any ED terms in RMO year in favour of (for critical care) ICU and specialty terms like cardiothoracic surgery or neurosurgery where your critical care (i.e. ICU and anaesthetics) exposure is maximised. However, other states may have 1 year contracts and so if you are accepting an intern position in a state where RMO positions are also ones where you will have to interview for, then you'll want as much relevancy in your specialty terms to your career pathway.

Long story short: 2 year contract - would consider provided you get potential for good resident terms; 1 year contract: wouldn't duplicate any terms as this would strictly decrease your specialty exposure.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
In terms of career progression, I do think the terms that you end up doing do affect your applications later. In terms of getting different experiences over the two JMO PGYs in NSW it may be possible to optimise your terms by doing two ED terms in intern year and then not doing any ED terms in RMO year in favour of (for critical care) ICU and specialty terms like cardiothoracic surgery or neurosurgery where your critical care (i.e. ICU and anaesthetics) exposure is maximised.
Caveat to that is that quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Two terms in ED as a PGY1 is of limited value, in that you're likely to be a supernumerary body, who doesn't really attract that much attention from the staff. Compare and contrast a PGY2, who forms an integral part of the roster, who comes to the role with considerably more useful experience and seniority than a PGY1. When it comes to a) quality of the clinical experience and b) likelihood of being noticed enough to make a good impression and take away a meaningful reference, two terms in PGY1 isn't likely to be your best bet.
 
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whoartthou

Regular Member
I disagree. Rotations as a PGY1 have a negligible effect on training options. The bigger issue would be the personal limitation of rotation repeats during a year which us meant to deliver a breadth and depth of professional experience and exposures. PGY1 is specifically NOT about focused pathways. Given that many PGY1s function in a supernumerary role in emergency departments these days, ED in particular would be a poor term to repeat at that level. I doubt it would be allowed, in any case.
Probably should point out I don't mean limitations but rather it may delay your chance of entering a training program where certain pre-requisites are required. For example paediatrics for General Practice or the fact that cardiologist and respiratory terms give extra points on an application for cardiothoracic surgery.
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
Probably should point out I don't mean limitations but rather it may delay your chance of entering a training program where certain pre-requisites are required. For example paediatrics for General Practice or the fact that cardiologist and respiratory terms give extra points on an application for cardiothoracic surgery.
I can't speak to GP entry requirements, but I'm pretty sure that points for CTS applications only apply to terms taken after general registration is obtained (ie PGY2 and beyond).
 

whoartthou

Regular Member
I can't speak to GP entry requirements, but I'm pretty sure that points for CTS applications only apply to terms taken after general registration is obtained (ie PGY2 and beyond).
Ah you are correct! A paediatric term is usually reserved for residents which means PGY2.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Yep, similarly other sought-after terms such as O&G, ICU etc tend to be allocated to PGY2s and up. Really, PGY1 is about covering the core rotations and getting enough runs on the board to turn one's provisional rego into general - the OP shouldn't feel that focussing one's interests should and can start as early as PGY1. A rotation taken after you've had a bit more experience is often far more useful than doing the same rotation as a green PGY1.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Caveat to that is that quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Two terms in ED as a PGY1 is of limited value, in that you're likely to be a supernumerary body, who doesn't really attract that much attention from the staff. Compare and contrast a PGY2, who forms an integral part of the roster, who comes to the role with considerably more useful experience and seniority than a PGY1. When it comes to a) quality of the clinical experience and b) likelihood of being noticed enough to make a good impression and take away a meaningful reference, two terms in PGY1 isn't likely to be your best bet.
I think we are talking about different sides of the same coin here; my suggestion of doing two ED terms in the first year of a two year contract is to specifically avoid doing any ED terms in the second year of a two year contract and instead have higher "impact" terms there relevant to training especially given that job applications and offers will occur in the third (of five) RMO terms.
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
...That assumes workforce don't give you a third ED term as PGY2, for "operational needs" of the hospital.
 

whoartthou

Regular Member
If your ED term counts as half a paeds term you could potentially finish the requirement for GP training in internship. However, I heard they are trying to make juniors do a specific paeds term and not just ED with a paediatric component.
Some hospitals don't roster interns for ED night shifts so for some hospitals a resident during an ED term is a necessity.
 

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