International Students: Multiple Offers Advice Requests

[leont]

Hey guys!

I'm an International student here, and I am wondering if there are any forumers who know more about the Monash and UNSW Medicine course, and are willing to share insights into the differences between the two schools so I could make an informed decision as to which school to head to, should I be offered a placing from both schools?

From what I gathered:

1. Monash being a 5 year course gets us to cut one year off studying (which means paying one year less of school fees!) and be able to enter the medical profession earlier than UNSW graduates who studied via a 6 year course. However, the pro of studying at UNSW is that there's a research year that might be useful in the future as research is an essential skill all doctors need to possess. Is this pro necessary worth the one extra year though?? (Can any UNSW students or anyone with this knowledge comment on this point?)

2. UNSW is located in a more vibrant location than Monash, as it's well located in the middle of the Sydney's city hub and near famous beaches and Sydney's more famed for having a better weather as compared to Melbourne.. That being said though, living in the city is expensive, and the Monash lifestyle is more affordable and slow-paced? (Can someone please comment on this point?) Furthermore, Monash is in a suburb area far away from Melbourne city (can someone please tell me if the Monash area itself is convenient and not so isolated?), so it offers a good study atmosphere, but there might not be much to do in our free time... (Again, can any Monash students or anyone with this knowledge comment on this point?)

3. UNSW is slightly more reputable worldwide than Monash? I know this is not the most important point, but it definitely plays a part in the decision making process.

Besides these, any other points you guys might like to add on that could help me in this decision making process?

Thank you so much! I will really appreciate insights and feedback.

 

[miss_universe]

Don;t even get started on number 3. It doesnt make a difference at any point and you will only start a pointless school-proud debate.

 

[geeoftee]

Don;t even get started on number 3. It doesnt make a difference at any point and you will only start a pointless school-proud debate.

Um no. That is bad advice for an international student plain and simple. Given the medical student tsunami and how international students will be pushed out for aussie internships; considering international reputation for a medical degree is essential.

Although australian degrees are equivalent in Australia; that is not the case internationally. Certain countries / states rate different Aussie degrees differently. For example, my friend from JCU was not able to apply for internship/matching in California since apparently the Californian government did not recognise a medical degree from JCU (but he was able to apply to other states like Kansas and Arkansas). Then there is the fact that certain countries give preference to IMGs who have practiced in that country over other IMGs. For instance, the US matching process for US internships looks favourably on letters of support etc from American doctors and experiences in American hospitals over randoms applying with letters of recommendation and experiences in just Wagga Wagga General or something. Some aussie unis have better international connections / placement opportunities than others. That may not be useful for an aussie planning to stay in australia but for an international who may be forced to apply elsewhere, it should be something that is discussed in theri decision making process.

 

[Ben]

Um no. That is bad advice for an international student plain and simple. Given the medical student tsunami and how international students will be pushed out for aussie internships; considering international reputation for a medical degree is essential.

Although australian degrees are equivalent in Australia; that is not the case internationally. Certain countries / states rate different Aussie degrees differently. For example, my friend from JCU was not able to apply for internship/matching in California since apparently-

And I'm done reading. Hearsay be crazy.

 

[miss_universe]

Ok, I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[pi]

1. Monash has an "opt-in" research year too that can be taken after second year (BMedSci) for those with achieving certain grades (I think it's a Credit or higher average), so no loss there if you take one (both degrees then have research + 6 yrs total if you "opt-in").

2. Haven't been to UNSW (declined the interview offer last year), but here's my take on Monash: it's not ideally placed. It's located in the East and is ~25mins from the city by public transport. Having said that, it was it's advantages, the main one being you will tend to get to know your cohort a lot better and it's a lot more quiet As for "free" time, you don't get much such time in a med degree (at least not until you've cemented some good study habits), so I wouldn't worry about that a whole lot

3. Looking at this (first link on Google haha): Rankings of Australian Universities Monash is ranked 117 to UNSW's 173. And in terms of medical schools, Monash > UNSW again, Best Medical Schools in Australia | Good University Ranking Guide


Hope that helps

 

[geeoftee]

And I'm done reading. Hearsay be crazy.

Hey mate, instead of being a smart alec, next time try and show that the anecdotal evidence provided is false before trying to discredit someone.

In case anyone is still interested I've checked the medical board of california website just now and lo and behold, no JCU recognition.

Here is the link for those interested: Welcome to the Medical Board of California - Medical Schools Recognized by the Medical Board of California

[h=4]Australia[/h]

• Australian National University Medical School
• Bond University School of Medicine
• Monash University Faculty of Medicine
• The Flinders University of South Australia
• The University of Queensland Medical School
• University of Adelaide Medical School
• University of Melbourne Faculty of Medicine
• University of New South Wales Faculty of Medicine
• University of Newcastle Faculty of Medicine
• University of Notre Dame Australia School of Medicine, Fremantle
• University of Sydney Faculty of Medicine
• University of Tasmania Faculty of Medicine
• University of Western Australia School of Medicine

Im surprised that JCU still isn't on the list. My friend's incident occurred roughly 2 years ago. It seems Griffith isnt on the list as well and that Fremantle is on the list whislt Notre Dam Sydney isnt.

I wonder what criteria the Californians use to choose who does and does not qualify.

 

[frootloop]

[offtopic]

Hey mate, instead of being a smart alec, next time try and show that the anecdotal evidence provided is false before trying to discredit someone.

I'd have thought it was up to the person providing the anecdotal evidence to supply the proof, rather than the other way around... *Butts out*[/offtopic]

 

[Ben]

Hey mate, instead of being a smart alec, next time try and show that the anecdotal evidence provided is false before trying to discredit someone.

Hey buddy, instead of being passive aggressive try making some sense- how am I to disprove that 'your friend' 'apparently' got told something? I'm not looking to derail a thread here; just pointing out your lack of commitment on what you're trying to say.

What a GoT.

 

[greenglacier]

It is worth noting at this point though that better "ranking" doesn't necessarily translate to better employability overseas. If you're an international student looking to work in your own country after graduation, perhaps look at the factors that have been mentioned here (i.e. what med schools are actually recognised in your home country, what med schools would give you the best opportunity to boost your CV when applying for jobs in your home country - and in both of these regards you may well find no difference between Monash and UNSW), rather than fussing over uni rankings. Rankings are, in themself, meaningless.

 

[geeoftee]

[offtopic]

[offtopic]
I'd have thought it was up to the person providing the anecdotal evidence to supply the proof, rather than the other way around... *Butts out*[/offtopic]

I dont have to supply proof for anecdotal evidence. I supplied anecdotal evidence as anecdotal evidence. If someone doesn't want to accept that as evidence then that is fair enough. If someone wants to clarify the evidence or ask for something more substantiative then they are free to ask. If someone wants to make an asshat remark and imply that the anecdotal evidence supplied is BS then they should show that that it is BS instead of just making a jack ass style remark.

Train ettiqute.
Simply stuff.

Hey buddy, instead of being passive aggressive try making some sense- how am I to disprove that 'your friend' 'apparently' got told something? I'm not looking to derail a thread here; just pointing out your lack of commitment on what you're trying to say.

What a GoT.

How about you post a link showing the claims in my anecdote were false - for instance going to the Californian board and showing that JCU was on that list. If you wanted clarification or stronger evidence then ask for it directly instead of just making a stupid remark. Wouldnt that be a good idea next time?

Also I do agree in not taking this topic further off topic so I will stop.
[/offtopic]

It is worth noting at this point though that better "ranking" doesn't necessarily translate to better employability overseas. If you're an international student looking to work in your own country after graduation, perhaps look at the factors that have been mentioned here (i.e. what med schools are actually recognised in your home country, what med schools would give you the best opportunity to boost your CV when applying for jobs in your home country - and in both of these regards you may well find no difference between Monash and UNSW), rather than fussing over uni rankings. Rankings are, in themself, meaningless.

I agree with this. You will have to do your own research on what is best for you depending on your circumstances. Rankings are broad measures that don't necessarily relate to student experiences or utility for students.

 

[leont]

1. Monash has an "opt-in" research year too that can be taken after second year (BMedSci) for those with achieving certain grades (I think it's a Credit or higher average), so no loss there if you take one (both degrees then have research + 6 yrs total if you "opt-in").

2. Haven't been to UNSW (declined the interview offer last year), but here's my take on Monash: it's not ideally placed. It's located in the East and is ~25mins from the city by public transport. Having said that, it was it's advantages, the main one being you will tend to get to know your cohort a lot better and it's a lot more quiet As for "free" time, you don't get much such time in a med degree (at least not until you've cemented some good study habits), so I wouldn't worry about that a whole lot

3. Looking at this (first link on Google haha): Rankings of Australian Universities Monash is ranked 117 to UNSW's 173. And in terms of medical schools, Monash > UNSW again, Best Medical Schools in Australia | Good University Ranking Guide


Hope that helps

Thank you for the insightful reply!

You are from Monash right? How is the teaching culture and student culture like in your cohort? Are the lecturers effective, or do they rely heavily on self learning via e-portal means? Also, there are shops selling necessities and what nots in the monash campus itself right? Any other information that you can share about the experience in Monash university?

 

[leont]

It is worth noting at this point though that better "ranking" doesn't necessarily translate to better employability overseas. If you're an international student looking to work in your own country after graduation, perhaps look at the factors that have been mentioned here (i.e. what med schools are actually recognised in your home country, what med schools would give you the best opportunity to boost your CV when applying for jobs in your home country - and in both of these regards you may well find no difference between Monash and UNSW), rather than fussing over uni rankings. Rankings are, in themself, meaningless.

Alright, I would keep this in mind. However as an international student coming from a country whose medical board accredited both monash and UNSW and having to pay such high international fees, it's only natural that I would be slightly concerned in which school I am putting my money into for my tertiary education, and thus the factor of rankings might come into play. Thank you for your insightful reply though, I will look into the opportunities portion and continue my research on these two universities.

 

[pi]

Thank you for the insightful reply!

You are from Monash right? How is the teaching culture and student culture like in your cohort? Are the lecturers effective, or do they rely heavily on self learning via e-portal means? Also, there are shops selling necessities and what nots in the monash campus itself right? Any other information that you can share about the experience in Monash university?

Yep, I'm at Monash

Personally, I love the cohort! I'ts amazing and most people are very helpful and not competitive, which really creates an awesome environment. There is also really good input from our Medsoc (MUMUS) and a great facebook culture too.

Most lecturers are pretty good, some I didn't enjoy (more due to the content of the lecture rather than the lecturer themselves) and some were over-ambitious haha (70+ slides in 50 mins aint gonna happen ). Otherwise, the lecture notes are good and there are readings that are listed to do as well for better understanding

Our "eportal" called Moodle is mainly a resource for the lecture notes (slides), small quizzes, and staff messages, so most of the learning is done in lectures and tutes themselves. There are also Study Groups with second years that you can join, kinda like an extra revision tute a week

The Monash bookstore is very expensive, so stay well away from buying textbooks/equipment from there. MUMUS organises sales of discounted steths, lab coats and other equipment during the end of first sem, so that's great. As for general stores, don't buy groceries on campus unless you are particularly rich There are a few major shopping centers a quick bus ride away though

As for any other general info... GO MONASH! It's awesome

 

[leont]

Yep, I'm at Monash

Personally, I love the cohort! I'ts amazing and most people are very helpful and not competitive, which really creates an awesome environment. There is also really good input from our Medsoc (MUMUS) and a great facebook culture too.

Most lecturers are pretty good, some I didn't enjoy (more due to the content of the lecture rather than the lecturer themselves) and some were over-ambitious haha (70+ slides in 50 mins aint gonna happen ). Otherwise, the lecture notes are good and there are readings that are listed to do as well for better understanding

Our "eportal" called Moodle is mainly a resource for the lecture notes (slides), small quizzes, and staff messages, so most of the learning is done in lectures and tutes themselves. There are also Study Groups with second years that you can join, kinda like an extra revision tute a week

The Monash bookstore is very expensive, so stay well away from buying textbooks/equipment from there. MUMUS organises sales of discounted steths, lab coats and other equipment during the end of first sem, so that's great. As for general stores, don't buy groceries on campus unless you are particularly rich There are a few major shopping centers a quick bus ride away though

As for any other general info... GO MONASH! It's awesome

Thanks rohitpi you have been of great help! do internationals have problems mixing in with the locals over in monash?

Any inputs from any UNSW students??

 

[Calem]

Thanks rohitpi you have been of great help! do internationals have problems mixing in with the locals over in monash?

Any inputs from any UNSW students??

I'd say there's not a great mix between locals and internationals. That's not to say that it can't happen (there are some internationals who I'm reasonably close to), but I think there are differences in interests and background which make it easier to not mix. But it doesn't affect stuff in class.

Just to offer a different perspective from [MENTION=9565]Rohitpi[/MENTION], Monash is a great school, but definitely has some issues. The campus is nowhere near the city and is often hard to get to by public transport at nights/Sundays, and there's not really a lot around there (it's a pretty quiet area apart from the uni). As all of the locals have just done year 12 or done a gap year, the cohort is quite homogenous which I don't particularly like - people (including myself a bit) can study at the expense of the rest of their life and while they're not so much focused on their marks some are a bit study-hard and sheltered which I don't particularly like.

I'd say the research opportunities and the clinical experiences are great here, if you're still interested .
I am enjoying it here, and am looking forward to starting back here.

 

[miss_universe]

Thanks rohitpi you have been of great help! do internationals have problems mixing in with the locals over in monash?

Any inputs from any UNSW students??

Just to put my perspective on this question, I find that international students tend to stick together because of the comfort it brings being in a different country and all. Not to say that thats the sole reason why occasionally there are not great mixes, but just an observation.

But saying that, our BDS class is all mixed up and loving it, though that could be because of a smaller, more intimate (lol) class.

 

[bleukreuz]

As first year international student in UNSW, I vote for UNSW

I'm only 3/4 of the way through my first year but I can say that I'm enjoying it here.

We have big campus, lots of facilities, and reasonably close to the city. Special express buses are available for students who live in the city area.

The students are helpful, with high solidarity, everyone's sharing their resources. Every cohort have their own facebook group which is very active.

A cohort consist of about 270 students, out of which about 70 are international.

The medsoc is very active, there's a lot of events: medcamp, medball, medshow, medrevue, sports competition, workshops, tutorial nights, special interest groups, and parties (lots of it!)

UNSW medsoc also have its own bookshop which is fairly cheap, I think they advertise themselves as the cheapest med bookshop in australia with 20% off RRP or so. But you still can get cheaper books online.

For studying we have the big main library and a faculty of law library which we can also use. We use online system called eMed for timetabling and submitting assignment. Another online portal called blackboard is used to distribute resource from the teachers, most of the lectures are recorded and lecture slides provided in pdf form.

Drawback: STAIRS and 6 years worth of tuition

 

[leont]

I'd say there's not a great mix between locals and internationals. That's not to say that it can't happen (there are some internationals who I'm reasonably close to), but I think there are differences in interests and background which make it easier to not mix. But it doesn't affect stuff in class.

Just to offer a different perspective from @Rohitpi , Monash is a great school, but definitely has some issues. The campus is nowhere near the city and is often hard to get to by public transport at nights/Sundays, and there's not really a lot around there (it's a pretty quiet area apart from the uni). As all of the locals have just done year 12 or done a gap year, the cohort is quite homogenous which I don't particularly like - people (including myself a bit) can study at the expense of the rest of their life and while they're not so much focused on their marks some are a bit study-hard and sheltered which I don't particularly like.

I'd say the research opportunities and the clinical experiences are great here, if you're still interested .
I am enjoying it here, and am looking forward to starting back here.

Thanks for the insights! The cohort being homogenous problem should be a common issue throughout all undergraduate medical schools in Australia right? Because most australians would have just graduated from high school and enter directly into the undergrad courses. Can I safely say that UNSW should have the same issue too?

 

[leont]

As first year international student in UNSW, I vote for UNSW

I'm only 3/4 of the way through my first year but I can say that I'm enjoying it here.

We have big campus, lots of facilities, and reasonably close to the city. Special express buses are available for students who live in the city area.

The students are helpful, with high solidarity, everyone's sharing their resources. Every cohort have their own facebook group which is very active.

A cohort consist of about 270 students, out of which about 70 are international.

The medsoc is very active, there's a lot of events: medcamp, medball, medshow, medrevue, sports competition, workshops, tutorial nights, special interest groups, and parties (lots of it!)

UNSW medsoc also have its own bookshop which is fairly cheap, I think they advertise themselves as the cheapest med bookshop in australia with 20% off RRP or so. But you still can get cheaper books online.

For studying we have the big main library and a faculty of law library which we can also use. We use online system called eMed for timetabling and submitting assignment. Another online portal called blackboard is used to distribute resource from the teachers, most of the lectures are recorded and lecture slides provided in pdf form.

Drawback: STAIRS and 6 years worth of tuition

Finally an input from UNSW's side! Thank you so much for this!

Do you find it difficult to mix with the locals in UNSW? Also, is the extra year of ILP worth it? What's the experience of the ILP like and is it easy to score well in?

Stairs! Well, at least it helps to keep you guys fit!