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Internship and residency in Australia as an international student

chinaski

Regular Member
The routes used by overseas graduates and trained physicians are much varied indeed. Re-doing internship/internship is the least preferred option for them. Many immigrant doctors (and there are many) have taken other routes including reciprocity (e.g CCFP), practice experience program (PEP), special arrangements with specialty colleges etc. They do their residency in their home country and then do AMC exams 1 and 2 and directly join the medical workforce, mainly in areas of need.

The overseas graduate/trained specialist does not get to choose the way in which their qualifications are appraised. These rules are set by the relevant college, AMC and AHPRA combined - the overseas applicant has to jump through the hoops set in front of them by convention.
 

Perplex

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
The routes used by overseas graduates and trained physicians are much varied indeed. Re-doing internship/internship is the least preferred option for them. Many immigrant doctors (and there are many) have taken other routes including reciprocity (e.g CCFP), practice experience program (PEP), special arrangements with specialty colleges etc. They do their residency in their home country and then do AMC exams 1 and 2 and directly join the medical workforce, mainly in areas of need.

Do you know how many overseas graduates applied to internship position in Australia and did not get? That would be an awesome stats to have IMHO.

Many I imagine. I would guess there is a decent cohort of domestic students studying overseas with the hopes of returning.
 

DrDrLMG!

Resident Medical Officer
Administrator
Many I imagine. I would guess there is a decent cohort of domestic students studying overseas with the hopes of returning.

Indeed, we even have them pop up here from time to time indicating exactly this.
 

Ian Naga

Retired Lurker
Many I imagine. I would guess there is a decent cohort of domestic students studying overseas with the hopes of returning.

I wish we have the stats available like the one from US nrmp. Otherwise, it is subjective discussion.

Data tables: http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-conten...the_Numbers_Infographic_AdvanceDataTables.pdf

Unlike US where the only route to practice is redoing internship/residency in US, we have other routes available in Australia. I have talked to a few overseas educated doctors and was amazed by the different routes they have taken to join the medical workforce in Australia. Hence the reason I questioned Mana's stats.
 

Perplex

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
I wish we have the stats available like the one from US nrmp. Otherwise, it is subjective discussion.

Data tables: http://www.mssnyenews.org/wp-conten...the_Numbers_Infographic_AdvanceDataTables.pdf

Unlike US where the only route to practice is redoing internship/residency in US, we have other routes available in Australia. I have talked to a few overseas educated doctors and was amazed by the different routes they have taken to join the medical workforce in Australia. Hence the reason I questioned Mana's stats.

Although there may be many that work currently, the number of Doctors we are importing (to the best of my knowledge) is on the decline. They still fill shortages in rural and remote locations, but not so much in metro regions. A thing of the past by the looks of it, as we continue to produce a large domestic cohort of students.
 

Ian Naga

Retired Lurker
A thing of the past by the looks of it, as we continue to produce a large domestic cohort of students.

Obviously, It will be affected by supply and demand. Do you have the stats for past year's intake (e.g visas granted to medical practitioners) ? Or is it just your hunch?. Australian PR visa grants for skilled workers is based on points for education, occupation,age, etc. The government regulates the visas issues by maintaining a list of occupation in demand. That's why for example, in the mid 1990s, only a few specialties were on the list resulting in fewer intakes of doctors. As long as Australian graduates shun rural opportunities, I suspect there would always be overseas graduates as the government is able to send overseas doctors to areas of need using medicare provider number scheme (Usually 10 years in rural area before they could get medicare provider number in urban areas). I think it works out good for the politicians and benefits their rural constituents. I doubt if it will ever be a thing of the past but definitely numbers will vary, up and down. .
 

Ian Naga

Retired Lurker
And when one avenue closes, another opens like this one:
Do the UKCAT/UCAT and apply to English schools as they are about the same price as our Bond uni (except that you won't get 120K fee help unlike for Bond). Do the fellowship and you have the option to come back to Australia through reciprocity arrangements. I will strongly recommend if you can afford it (big if!)
>>>>>>>
Aussie doctors to be offered $34k to move to UK as Britain’s GP shortage worsens

Category: | Herald Sun

AUSTRALIAN doctors will be offered $34,000 to move to the UK, as Britain’s GP shortage worsens.

Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) is set to offer cash incentives to Australian GPs in an attempt to fill an alarming shortage of family doctors across the country.

NHS England have declared they’ll offer £18,500 ($A34,000) to British GPs who have relocated and Australian-trained doctors who want to live and work in the UK.

Details of the recruitment plans were outlined at the Royal College of GPs’ annual conference in Glasgow on Thursday with a target of 2000 foreign doctors hoped to be in place by 2020-21.

The initiative mirrors the success of the London Ambulance Service recruiting over 500 paramedics from Australia and New Zealand in the past four years.

GP vacancy rates in the UK are the highest on record with more than 1000 doctors leaving the NHS in the last three years citing unmanageable workloads and increasing demands.

Two recruitment agencies have been tasked with finding suitable candidates and the British government has relaxed a cap on workers from outside the European Economic Area.

This could lead to the application procedure for Australian doctors reduced from a year to three months.

“It’s no secret the NHS needs to recruit more GPs, so it makes sense to head to Australia where doctors’ skills, training and high levels of care closely match those of their British counterparts,” Dominic Hardy, NHS England’s director of primary care delivery told the London Evening Standard.

WHAT’S THE PROBLEM?
An August piece in the UK Telegraph highlighted that the waiting time for GP appointments in the UK was at an “all time high”.

The chairman of the Royal College of GPs Prof Helen Stokes-Lampard said patients were being forced to wait up to a month for appointments, leaving many to suffer or develop further health complications.

Professor Stokes-Lampard said overseas GPs who wanted to work in the UK had also struggled in the past to obtain a licence to work.

She said two years ago health officials promised to train 5000 more GPs by 2020 to counter the crisis but it seems the opposite has happened and the workforce has instead fallen by 1000.

 

Rawa

Lurker
Hi I am an Australian and planning to study Medicine in Malaysia at Mahsa university this year 2019. As you know there is no internship in Malaysia for international students after graduation. Do you think Australian Medical board asks for internship to be eligible to appear for the AMC exam?
Thanks
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
Hi I am an Australian and planning to study Medicine in Malaysia at Mahsa university this year 2019. As you know there is no internship in Malaysia for international students after graduation. Do you think Australian Medical board asks for internship to be eligible to appear for the AMC exam?
Thanks

Google AMC Standard Pathway, iirc there is no internship requirement to sit the two AMC exams. But after passing you will be required to obtain a 12-month supervised work/internship, which is very difficult.

In 2017 of the 3500 internships offered only a few went to this AMC pathway.
 

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Rawa

Lurker
Thanks for you reply. Should a 12-month supervised work/internship be done in a hospital setting? or at any private clinic?
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
Thanks for you reply. Should a 12-month supervised work/internship be done in a hospital setting? or at any private clinic?

The AMC webpage says it must be an Approved program. So I assume it can be at a private clinic if the clinic has sought AMC approval. However there is still the matter of how from there you will break into the hospital system to gain entry into a vocational/specialist training program.

I don't know much about this. Hope someone more senior will help.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
These are the guidelines for what an approved program is (it is set by the Medical Board of Australia, not the Australian Medical Council) - Medical Board of Australia - Supervised practice for international medical graduates guidelines

Notably in this it says this (and I have bolded the bit that may make things prohibitive for you):

"
Requirements for principal supervisors, co-supervisors and term co-supervisors

All principal supervisors, co-supervisors and term co-supervisors:

  • should have specialist registration

    If the proposed supervisor has general registration, not specialist registration, they must provide an explanation for the Board’s consideration about their training and experience and why they are suitable to be a supervisor. A medical practitioner with limited or provisional registration cannot be appointed as an IMG’s supervisor.

  • must be appropriately qualified, preferably in the same field of medicine as the position proposed for the IMG

    If the proposed supervisor is not qualified in the same field of medicine as the proposed position for the IMG, they must provide an explanation for the Board’s consideration as to why supervision will not be undertaken by a person qualified in the same field of practice and how it is proposed that effective supervision will be provided.

  • should have a minimum of three years full time equivalent practice with general and/or specialist registration in Australia prior to being appointed as a supervisor

    If the proposed supervisor does not have three years full time equivalent experience with general and/or specialist registration in Australia, they must provide an explanation for the Board’s consideration as to why they are suitable to be a supervisor.


  • must satisfactorily complete the Board’s online education and assessment module on these guidelines, to ensure that they understand their roles and responsibilities as a supervisor.

    New supervisors must satisfactorily complete the module within one month of commencing as a supervisor. All supervisors must repeat the module each time the guidelines are re-issued by the Board.

Now this bit in bold basically means that they need to be someone who is a specialist and who did general or specialist training in Australia for three years (and the vast majority of these people will be doctors who practice in Australia and therefore would be people who would work in the public system in Australia or the private system in Australia, and not outside Australia because their specialist registration is recognised in Australia.)

Given this is the case, I don't think there are going to be many of these accredited positions at all, and if you are going to be doing a degree in Malaysia and you know you are not going to get an internship in Malaysia then your degree is almost useless (as you're also not going to get an internship in Australia, being literally last priority after Australian/NZ domestic graduates and Australian/NZ international graduates who studied in Australia/NZ, some of who are missing out).


I would seriously rethink your choice to go and study medicine at Mahsa University given that you will in all likelihood have no internship and therefore won't be able to use your degree to practice.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Thanks for you reply. Should a 12-month supervised work/internship be done in a hospital setting? or at any private clinic?

It's my understanding that if you are applying down the standard pathway, you must FIRST complete an internship in Australia or its equivalent overseas, THEN apply for provisional registration in Australia via AHPRA and only THEN are you at the point of having to fulfil 12 months of supervised practice. The required 12 months of supervision is not the equivalent of an internship year - this is an additional requirement.

 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
It seems to me for the Competent Authority pathway, an applicant must have completed an internship in a "competent" country (US, UK, Canada...), then they don't need to sit the two AMC exams. Despite having completed the internship they need to obtain a place in an approved 12-month program first to get provisional registration, then general registration on completion.

For the Standard pathway I could be wrong but I have not seen the internship requirement specified. It seems provided their med degree is from a recognised uni (diff to accredited) they can apply to sit the AMC exams. On passing they get an AMC Certificate to apply for an Aus internship then provisional registration.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
For the Standard pathway I could be wrong but I have not seen the internship requirement specified. It seems provided their med degree is from a recognised uni (diff to accredited) they can apply to sit the AMC exams. On passing they get an AMC Certificate to apply for an Aus internship then provisional registration.

It appears to be a requirement in the link I provided above. In order for a standard pathway applicant to gain general registration, first they must obtain provisional registration. An approved internship is a requirement of provisional registration (see link). It is during the period of provisional registration that the required 12 months of supervised practice is fulfilled - the 12 months is a requirement of gaining general registration. Indeed, the link itself warns applicants for provisional registration thusly:

You are strongly advised to complete an internship or comparable in your country of graduation before you apply for registration in Australia as priority for accredited medical internship positions in Australia is given to Australian graduates. International medical graduates are likely to find these positions are very difficult to obtain.

Someone chime in if my info is out of date, but competent pathway doesn't apply to the OP as Malaysia doesn't belong to the list of "competent" countries.
 

A1

Rookie Doc
Moderator
It appears to be a requirement in the link I provided above. In order for a standard pathway applicant to gain general registration, first they must obtain provisional registration. An approved internship is a requirement of provisional registration (see link). It is during the period of provisional registration that the required 12 months of supervised practice is fulfilled - the 12 months is a requirement of gaining general registration.

Someone chime in if my info is out of date, but competent pathway doesn't apply to the OP as Malaysia doesn't belong to the list of "competent" countries.

I was just going to add this bit to my post above. I saw in the MBA link above, the overseas internship can be waived if they show proof of an Aus internship offer.

So after passing the exams for the AMC Cert they can either:
- show overseas internship for provi rego then go get the 12-month supervised practice, or
- if no overseas internship, get an Aus internship for provi rego

Btw I mentioned the Competent pathway for sort of completeness, not for this Malaysian degree.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
So after passing the exams for the AMC Cert they can either:
- show overseas internship for provi rego then go get the 12-month supervised practice, or
- if no overseas internship, get an Aus internship for provi rego

So in the context of the OP, neither represent very feasible options. Either way, the take-home message appears to be that internship is a requirement, whether this is undertaken overseas or in Australia.
 
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Hello,

Just wondering if anybody here was a cat 4 applicant and applied to NSW - if so where did you end up? HETI have confirmed they will not release this information in their upcoming report and I'm mostly seeing whether I could get into the liverpool or bankstown network.

many cat 4 applicants for this year?
Thank you!
 

Trump

Lurker
Hi everone :) I'm a medical student from Denmark. It is the first time i uses this site so i hope that i'm doing it correct.
My question is: What is required if a doctor from Denmark want's to move to Australia for working? I mean is there any axame that I have to do before to get acceptet?
Best wishes <3 <3
 

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