Registered  members with 100+ posts do not see Ads

Internship Applications for 2014

zvyx

Regular Member
Hey all :)
The internship sub-forum seems to be slightly dead, so I'm hoping some Class of '13 peeps will see this and know that, yes, there are others going for 2014 internship! UWS just had our HETI Internship presentation for NSW and some interesting things they quoted include:

49% of people get their 1st preference
56-70% of people get their 1st-4th preference (range of % was because this was a school-by-school survey)
Lowest preference granted in 2013 was 9th
Lowest preference granted in 2014 may be as low as 10th

Couldn't get any information on number of grads who applied per hospital (a la Queensland) but I guess that's to be expected.

What are your thoughts about internship '14?
 

Season

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
Our information night is next next week. I'm excited, I really really want to graduate. I want money damnit.
 

furl

Regular Member
Figures are not right. Last year I know at least 5 people who got their 12 th preference. HETI said the same to us. I also don't know anyone that got 2-5 preference. Most people got their 1st or >6th. I got my 7th. Need to really think about how to preference.
Furl
 

JeremiahGreenspoon

Regular Member
Interesting...
When looking at the rotations offered by a network, is a network that offers surgery (colorectal, hand, neuro, plastics etc) likely to also offer 'general surgery'? Only ask as if general surgery and general medicine are two of the compulsory rotations for a particular specialist pathway, it would be helpful if one's internship network offered these. Right?
 

chinaski

Regular Member
General surgery is a specialty in its own right, so it would not be unusual to see it alongside other surgical specialties. I am not aware of any specialist pathway which stipulates gen med and gen surg as compulsory rotations. Perhaps you are confusing it with the requirement that all interns have exposure to ED, medical and surgical rotations prior to the completion of their PGY1?

It is worth adding that you are not guaranteed a rotation (outside of those requirements), even if you preference it highly or need it as a pre-requisite for further training. Rostering will take preferences into account, but you may not be lucky enough to score everything you want. Service provision and staffing logistics tends to be a higher priority for those making allocations, rather than meeting everyone's preferences.
 

JeremiahGreenspoon

Regular Member
Thanks for the info. Fair enough with the preferencing vs rostering, just curious at this stage.

The information regarding requirements was from here: FAQs | GP Australia
Wonder if they're just being vague...

Save you linking:

  • What are the compulsory rotations for each pathway?
RACGP
There are four compulsory hospital rotations for RACGP general practice training: general medicine, general surgery, emergency medicine and paediatrics.
To complement this, you also need to complete three hospital rotations of your choice, provided they are relevant to general practice. Psychiatry, obstetrics and gynaecology, geriatrics and anaesthetics are all considered useful for aspiring GPs.


 

Registered  members with 100+ posts do not see Ads

Khorne

Member
General surgery in that case means a surgical rotation. General surgery on its own right, as a surg-spec relates to surgery usually involving the abdominal area and organs.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
I wouldn't be so quick to assume any surgical rotation would equate to "general surgery" in the RACGP's eyes - best check with them. General surgery would certainly be more relevant to a GP trainee than another more specific sub-specialty (ditto, general medicine). Thinking back now, I seem to recall my colleagues who wanted to do GP needing to request a secondment away from our main hospital which did not have a general medicine unit at the time. Procurement of the general terms was comparatively easier than landing a Paeds, gas or O&G term back then, but this would obviously depend on the network and demand these days (though I expect the same would be true now as it was then).
 

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
[offtopic]
General surgery in that case means a surgical rotation.
Considering you haven't even started medical school yet, let alone GP training, it's a little early to be coming up with authoritative statements like that, don't you think? That's certainly not how I'd have read those guidelines, anyway.[/offtopic]
 

Khorne

Member
[offtopic]
Considering you haven't even started medical school yet, let alone GP training, it's a little early to be coming up with authoritative statements like that, don't you think? That's certainly not how I'd have read those guidelines, anyway.[/offtopic]

Please leave your condescension at the door, there is no requirement for first hand experiences to answer questions. From the guidelines:

FRACGP Registrars: General medicine and general surgery are preferred but, realising that these are not always available as such in some hospitals, a medical rotation that offers broad medical experience and a surgical rotation that covers the principles of basic surgical care would be considered.
 

Sam

¿umm?
Please leave your condescension at the door, there is no requirement for first hand experiences to answer questions. From the guidelines:

FRACGP Registrars: General medicine and general surgery are preferred but, realising that these are not always available as such in some hospitals, a medical rotation that offers broad medical experience and a surgical rotation that covers the principles of basic surgical care would be considered.

Boom, roasted.
 

greenglacier

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
Please leave your condescension at the door, there is no requirement for first hand experiences to answer questions. From the guidelines:

FRACGP Registrars: General medicine and general surgery are preferred but, realising that these are not always available as such in some hospitals, a medical rotation that offers broad medical experience and a surgical rotation that covers the principles of basic surgical care would be considered.
Hey Khorne, I think it's great you're reading around like that and you're definitely allowed to answer questions when you've got a good source - in fact it's encouraged to help improve MSO!

Can I make a couple of suggestions though? Take it or leave it... :)

Firstly, it's really good if you can link to your source - doing so in your initial post would've avoided this confusion. This is something we should all do, regardless of how senior we are.

Secondly, if you are going to be answering the questions of someone further along their training than you, it pays to construct your answer accordingly. In this case, telling someone halfway through med school what general surgery as a specialty encapsulates, could be seen as a tad condescending (even though I know you didn't intend this).
 
Last edited:

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
Please leave your condescension at the door
My condescension? I'm not the one who posted this to someone halfway through med school:
General surgery on its own right, as a surg-spec relates to surgery usually involving the abdominal area and organs.
Also, I didn't say you needed first hand experience. However, as gg pointed out, if you're going to make authoritative statements, you need to back them up.
Oh, and on a less petty note, where did you get that bit from? Because that's not on the page Jeramiah linked (and I'm interested now, lol).
 

Khorne

Member
Secondly, if you are going to be answering the questions of someone further along their training than you, it pays to construct your answer properly. In this case, telling someone halfway through med school what general surgery as a specialty encapsulates, could be seen as a tad condescending (even though I know you didn't intend this).

Here's my cut of the gib:

There is an objective truth. A person who was serious about a queston would no ask it in such a place, they would go directly to a primary source (i.e. the college), or at least a trusted secondary (i.e. a current reg, etc). Consequently, by posting it in a public domain, you accept incorrect answers and anyone has the right to answer. My answer should have been referenced, but it is easily found with a search.

My issue with frootloop's comment is that he directly used personal information to attack my answer based on who _I_ was, not what I was saying, and the cherry on top is that he then used his position in comparison to elevate his opinion. I wouldn't have cared if he said "look khorne, I found this document X, and it clearly states a general term MUST be completed yadda yadda". That is fine. However, he essentially said "You are X, I am Y (implicit), hence I more informed".
 

Registered  members with 100+ posts do not see Ads

frootloop

Doctor
Moderator
Here's my cut of the gib:

There is an objective truth. A person who was serious about a queston would no ask it in such a place, they would go directly to a primary source (i.e. the college), or at least a trusted secondary (i.e. a current reg, etc). Consequently, by posting it in a public domain, you accept incorrect answers and anyone has the right to answer. My answer should have been referenced, but it is easily found with a search.
So all internet forums are pointless, because the answers are available elsewhere?
My issue with frootloop's comment is that he directly used personal information to attack my answer based on who _I_ was, not what I was saying, and the cherry on top is that he then used his position in comparison to elevate his opinion. I wouldn't have cared if he said "look khorne, I found this document X, and it clearly states a general term MUST be completed yadda yadda". That is fine. However, he essentially said "You are X, I am Y (implicit), hence I more informed".
Well yes, it kind of does make a difference who you are. If you were the head of the RACGP, I wouldn't have questioned you. However, you're a pre-med, so you kind of need to back up what you say. Especially when what you're saying appears to conflict with evidence someone else just gave.
I didn't say I personally was better informed? (I'm not, by the way, knowing jack all about how specialty training works, and even less about how it works on the other side of the Tasman) Just how I'd have read the guidelines, and those guidelines that Jeramiah linked listed it as one of four compulsory rotations.

Edit: Apologies to those whose thread we're derailing with this. Khorne, if you'd like to continue our poop-flinging, PM me.


Note from Shizzy:
Let's keep on topic from this point onward please. Everything offtopic will be deleted.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JeremiahGreenspoon

Regular Member
Wow what happened...
Anyway, khorne had a point, but I wonder if this is the website taken from?
Central and Southern Qld Training Consortium

In which case it's not a very good point, because it refers specifically to the registrar training program offered by one particular provider, not the college.

I'm more inclined to take chinaski's word for it, as I would expect that given there are 'general surgery' rotations available in a range of networks, not having it within your own internship network doesn't preclude you from having to do it. You would just have to do it within your registrar training period, rather than internship, or get a secondment out if you can.

[offtopic]For what it's worth, I hate to think that only people unserious about their enquiries ask questions here, and everything else goes to qualified professionals and training colleges [/offtopic]
 

chinaski

Regular Member
I'm more inclined to take chinaski's word for it, as I would expect that given there are 'general surgery' rotations available in a range of networks, not having it within your own internship network doesn't preclude you from having to do it. You would just have to do it within your registrar training period, rather than internship, or get a secondment out if you can.

Indeed, most interns wouldn't rack up the pre-requisites you cited earlier during their PGY1. More specifically, rotations like Paeds, gas and O&G are not uncommonly reserved for PGY2+ doctors, so wouldn't be on offer to interns anyway. There's also a good argument for completing relevant pre-vocational rotations when you're at a level of competency and experience that you can actually glean some worthwhile learning (as opposed to just muddling through, trying to keep your head above water whilst being buried in paperwork). As such, there needn't be a rush to get everything ticked off your list ASAP - extra time in the trenches can actually be a valuable pursuit - arguably moreso for GP trainees who can sometimes be in too much of a hurry to leave the hospital system behind.
 

Registered  members with 100+ posts do not see Ads

Top