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Internships for FFP MD students/Difficulty of science in MD pre-requisites VS MD subjects

Hi there,

I have the 99+ guaranteed FFP for the Doctor of Medicine at the University of Melbourne (doing Arts as by undergrad degree) and have a few questions!

1. I am aware there is uncertainty surrounding getting an internship for FFP students. How many of the FFP students get internships straight after graduating, and how many are left without an internship? I am very worried that I will be left without a job after graduating because of the FFP. On the Unimelb website it says over 75% of international students got internships - is there a figure known for the FFP students?

2. What WAM do I need to be getting in the MD to ensure I get an internship as a FFP student?

3. In the internship application process, how important is/what weighting is given to the internZ score, and what to the other components (IIRC the other components are the references/CV and interview right)? (Eg: 25%, 50%??) I know it is different for each hospital, but it would be good to get a general idea of the average.

4. I have heard with a 4.2 you are safe - what WAM does this equate to at Unimelb?

5. I feel that one of the benefits of doing undergrad Arts with the pre-requisites for medicine as my breadth subjects is that I am easing into an intensive science course, so I get a taste of the kind of material I have to be learning at a fast pace instead of being thrown into the deep end. If anyone has done the undergrad --> MD route at Unimelb, how hard are the pre-requisites, in terms of content and speed of course, in comparison to the science studied in the actual MD? As I am not very scientifically minded (I want to do med for the humanistic/clinical side), I want to get an idea of how long it will take for me to grasp the science concepts in medicine. Eg: If I am finding the level 2 science pre-requisites fine, will I be fine for the MD?

Thanks for your help!
 

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A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
I have the 99+ guaranteed FFP for the Doctor of Medicine at the University of Melbourne (doing Arts as by undergrad degree) and have a few questions!

1. I am aware there is uncertainty surrounding getting an internship for FFP students. How many of the FFP students get internships straight after graduating, and how many are left without an internship? I am very worried that I will be left without a job after graduating because of the FFP.
You are practically guaranteed of an internship (whether it's at a location of choice or suitable for you is a different matter though). Being a Vic FFP graduate all states except WA will give you higher internship priority than their international grads, so worst case Vic runs out of places you can always apply interstate. It's highly unlikely the state govs/med schools will let it get to the stage of zero internship for int'l grads let alone domestic FFPs.

2. What WAM do I need to be getting in the MD to ensure I get an internship as a FFP student?
The WAM that you need to graduate.
 

pi

Junior doctor
Emeritus Staff
I agree with the above^.

3. In the internship application process, how important is/what weighting is given to the internZ score, and what to the other components (IIRC the other components are the references/CV and interview right)? (Eg: 25%, 50%??) I know it is different for each hospital, but it would be good to get a general idea of the average.
Have a read of VIC Internship explanation

In general, you'd expect the InternZ score to make up the majority of any scoring sheet the hospitals use.


4. I have heard with a 4.2 you are safe - what WAM does this equate to at Unimelb?
Safe for what? Safe for a shot at an interview at Alfred/RMH/StV/Austin? It was last year (as per my link above). Safe for a spot at any of those? Nope.

As for what WAM this is, no idea! Perhaps someone in the MD can do some digging, Perplex? Worth noting that this is a WAM for the MD - what you do now in your Arts degree has no bearing at all. So I wouldn't worry about it at the moment. Who knows, the system might change by the time you graduate in 7 or so years time.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
You are practically guaranteed of an internship (whether it's at a location of choice or suitable for you is a different matter though). Being a Vic FFP graduate all states except WA will give you higher internship priority than their international grads, so worst case Vic runs out of places you can always apply interstate. It's highly unlikely the state govs/med schools will let it get to the stage of zero internship for int'l grads let alone domestic FFPs.
Broken record time: that guarantee is current now, but not necessarily so when you graduate. It's pure supposition to predict how the contemporaneous state government will dictate employment terms in the future for non-CSP graduates who are not, and never have been, protected by the COAG agreement. It's akin to saying interest rates are low now, so they'll be low in 5 years when it comes to buying a house then.
 

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A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
Broken record time: that guarantee is current now, but not necessarily so when you graduate. It's pure supposition to predict how the contemporaneous state government will dictate employment terms in the future for non-CSP graduates who are not, and never have been, protected by the COAG agreement.
Should I add that the COAG agreement itself can change too, can you quote a source that says it can never be changed?

My post above isn't based on a specific guarantee but on the likelihood of zero internship Australia-wide for international grads (since only when that happens it starts to affect Vic FFP grads). I actually pray for that to happen as it would solve a lot of vocational training issues but I suspect as usual my prayers are seldom answered.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Should I add that the COAG agreement itself can change too, can you quote a source that says it can never be changed?

My post above isn't based on a specific guarantee but on the likelihood of zero internship Australia-wide for international grads (since only when that happens it starts to affect Vic FFP grads). I actually pray for that to happen as it would solve a lot of vocational training issues but I suspect as usual my prayers are seldom answered.
Of course the COAG agreement can be changed, but as it is a collective agreement to which all states and territories have agreed, it is far less vulnerable to the whims of a single government, and a reversal of this agreement would obviously cause far more controversy and trouble for far more people (students and politicians alike) - so it's reasonable to consider it a safer bet. What I'm not certain on (I haven't bothered finding out) is how easily a state or territory could secede from the COAG agreement individually - that scenario could prove very dangerous for all students. Nevertheless, intuitively it makes no sense for a government to level the playing field: just as it is politically easy to deny an international student a job on graduation (they don't vote, they aren't citizens, etc etc), it's also much easier to sell the premise of denying a wealthy graduate a job, so as to secure employment for graduates whose education was sponsored by the taxpayer. Otherwise, why invest in CSPs at all if the public sees no return?

I agree that the most likely outcome is that international grads will go without long before any domestics miss out, but I think it's also worth pointing out that what is solid ground for domestic FFPs today cannot, and should not, be assured based on the confidence they are feeling this year. The rug can be pulled out from underneath them without notice: all it would take is a state government (which today is not yet even elected) to look for cuts to the budget, discover we have too many interns, and whammo, domestic FFPs are on the chopping block. Obviously the chances of this are low, but without the protective umbrella insurance of the COAG agreement, that risk will never drop to zero. Presently, the only "guarantee" of employment to FFPs expires at the end of each calendar year, and entirely hinges on a state-determined priority list, not any agreement to protect or guarantee anything. How comfortable (financially and otherwise) people feel taking that gamble is up to them.
 
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