This thread is for discussing JCU written applications. Feel free to post any questions about the written application process. Any PM's that I receive asking for advice this year will be replied to in this thread with usernames removed.
JCU written applications are due on the 30th of September and need a JP to stamp the Statuatory Declaration. Application forms can be found https://www.jcu.edu.au/division-of-tropical-health-and-medicine/application-forms/domestic-applicants']here.
A General Overview
Spend some serious time on your written application and going through possible interview questions (it's more of a process of being able to explain, describe and sell yourself than memorising answers) and it will likely help you more than increasing your ATAR by one point.
Why do you want to be a doctor?
The first section (why would you like to be a doctor) is for you to fill in with anything that you feel shows a quality that would make you a good doctor or that shows how motivated you are. Whether that comes through in the form of you showing how much you like helping people, or learning things about the human body or so forth is upto you and what you can put across in the best way. It may also be beneficial (if you've got heaps of space left/not many things to talk about) to talk about things you want to do and how they would help you make the decision. Essentially the other questions in the application are asking why you would make a good doctor/deal with rural life or why the heck you want to do a course that will take you six years to complete and then put you at the bottom of the foodchain in a hospital whereupon you'll spend the next 15 years of your life studying and working your way upto the top again.
Some good 'devils-advocate' questions to ask yourself:
Why do you want to learn specifically about Indigenous/tropical/rural/remote health?
This question is tough and really weeds out the people who have and haven't done research. Do not think you can answer this question appropriately if you haven't at least tried to read up on what these all mean. You need to think about what they(the groups above) have, what they don't have, what different things they have to overcome for health care and how living in a rural area is such a huge factor for poor health. Why do you think that is? What reasons can you come up with for why people in rural areas have poor health? Why does that make you WANT to do this? Don't just talk about the differences, make it clear why this inspires you/challenges you etc.
The harsh truth is that rural practice is completely and totally different from metropolitan practice in the sense that there is both poorer health care in the majority of tropical Australia/tropical anywhere because it's so rural (leading to diseases that normally wouldn't have a significant impact having an incredibly large impact - see Rheumatic Heart Disease as a result of group A Strep. infections which is primarily a tropical and low socioeconomic disease) and also in the sense that tropical areas provide the perfect environment for a huge number of diseases that simply can't survive in other environments - see melioidosis, leptospirorsis, dengue fever, malaria and an almost endless list of diseases you won't see anywhere else which have largely been eradicated in more populated areas due to prevention measures and better hygiene/health care.
If you don't actually know anything about rural/remote/tropic/Indigenous health then tell them that you don't, but of course admit that with something in mind - do you want to learn about those things? Actually think about it, is helping the underserved population something you're actually interested in? Because if it isn't, perhaps JCU isn't a place you want to be - it really is a big, big emphasis. As for a couple things you can read, maybe try these: Rural and Regional Health Australia - Health status
The summary of this: http://www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/Down...?id=6442459831
Though this is likely the best one to read: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/nh...(j%20humph.pdf
If you're only going to read one of those make it the last one, basically the issues that you need to think about are (in brief and not all-inclusive): in rural areas it is harder to actually get to people (further away from everything); the majority of people in rural areas have a different, occupational view of health such that it's unlikely they'll see a doctor or a dentist unless they absolutely have to/it stops them from working; confidentiality is a huge problem since in most rural towns its very hard to go to a doctor/dentist without knowing the receptionist or other people there first hand; there's further problems in that rural towns and their populations are generally poorer/have a lower socioeconomic status along with a lower level of education which all lead to poor health decisions and couple all of that with much greater rates of smoking, alcohol, tobacco and mental health problems and you've got the average rural town with significantly lower health outcomes.
Questions to ask yourself:
Paid Employment/Work Experience Etc.
The following is quoted out of a thread fully available here: Note for work experience
Many applicants attend work experience and get some huge profound thing out of it/"fall in love with medicine" and describe this in their interview. Keep in mind that your interviewers are mostly doctors who have all been through medical school and have done more than a few interviews; they will 100% see through your bullshit.
In saying that, I feel that someone who spends time on a medical placement prior to their application and doesn't at least try to reflect on it during their interview has wasted their time. This is just about the only time when reflecting on your pre-medical school placement will actually be useful to anyone other than yourself and by not highlighting it you're losing out on that.
It also demonstrates quite clearly that you actually have a reasonable idea of what the job in the future might be like. Sure, you're not really going to understand it deeply but you have a much better idea than someone who has never set foot in a hospital/clinic.
I think that someone who goes on a medical placement and instantly "falls in love with it" or something similar is not thinking critically or reflecting on it properly. The most important thing to get out of the placement is a sense of what it's like to do the job from 8-5, to realise that amongst the brilliant moments where you connect with people/do medicine stuff and the like that it's a job with real work to be done. It's about realising how much you actually don't know, how much you have to learn and being excited about that prospect.
There's no other way you can realistically get the idea of how much there is to learn in this career without actually getting involved and considering that continued learning/academia throughout life is one of JCU's application questions and almost always a staple interview question it would be silly to not use the opportunities you have had to discuss it further and show you've put some real thought into it.
I agree with Pi that you need to set yourself apart, I just think that it should be through your critical thinking/evaluation of what happened at your medical placement rather than saying "I saw someone have a heart attack and we fixed it! MEDICINE IS GREAT!".
I'll cover your question about how long you should spend on the placement with more questions: are you still getting anything out of it? Not learning medicine (you'll do this in medical school) but actually getting experience of what your potential future is like? Do you have a solid understanding of the 8-5 job or have you only been going from 2-5pm? Have you done more than just sit with the Doctor, have you considered spending some time with the nurses, physiotherapists, other allied health? Do you feel like the placement has anything else to offer you?
Try and remember that even though you've decided 100% in your heart that you want to do medicine you realistically have no idea what the next 5-6 years of medical school and then your future after that entail. Don't spend this time trying to get a placement so it looks good on your interview, spend it trying to evaluate whether you actually want to do this as a life choice.
Other Relevant Details
There are a number of ways you can respond to this section of the JCU application and largely it depends on your personal experience - if you have something that you haven't been able to bring up in the previous questions then realistically this is where you can detail it. This is especially important for those with prior experience in fields that JCU is looking for - i.e. if you are currently an Indigenous Health Liason Officer working in the hospital/healthcare sector but for some reason haven't been able to bring it up earlier in the application then this is where you would put that information.
On the other end of the spectrum - i.e. high school graduates - this often allows for people to list achievements that aren't necessarily directly related to their medicine application but demonstrate leadership/commitment to learning etc. For example, if you represented Australia at a national level for sport; or you have written papers/been involved in research then you can list those references here. There are more examples I can give but again it's entirely dependent on your own personal background, whether you think the information you are putting down is worthwhile and/or demonstrates why you are a good applicant.
Letters of Support
Unless things have changed my understanding is that you submit a Letter of Support from a referee rather than contact details. In this sense JCU is incredibly unlikely to actually chase referees down themselves given the enormous number of applications they get and the inherent inability to contact people at any time of the day.
I wouldn't worry greatly about referees - unless they are exceptional it's unlikely they'll make a great deal of difference; every student worth their salt can find three people to say nice things about them and in that sense there's very little that actually sets apart referees and their letters of support. In saying this, it is not an area to neglect - definitely include 3 letters if you can get them!
I hope this clears things up a little bit and gives some of you a few ideas of how to proceed. Feel free to post any questions or answers to the questions I've posted above!
JCU written applications are due on the 30th of September and need a JP to stamp the Statuatory Declaration. Application forms can be found https://www.jcu.edu.au/division-of-tropical-health-and-medicine/application-forms/domestic-applicants']here.
A General Overview
Spend some serious time on your written application and going through possible interview questions (it's more of a process of being able to explain, describe and sell yourself than memorising answers) and it will likely help you more than increasing your ATAR by one point.
Why do you want to be a doctor?
The first section (why would you like to be a doctor) is for you to fill in with anything that you feel shows a quality that would make you a good doctor or that shows how motivated you are. Whether that comes through in the form of you showing how much you like helping people, or learning things about the human body or so forth is upto you and what you can put across in the best way. It may also be beneficial (if you've got heaps of space left/not many things to talk about) to talk about things you want to do and how they would help you make the decision. Essentially the other questions in the application are asking why you would make a good doctor/deal with rural life or why the heck you want to do a course that will take you six years to complete and then put you at the bottom of the foodchain in a hospital whereupon you'll spend the next 15 years of your life studying and working your way upto the top again.
Some good 'devils-advocate' questions to ask yourself:
- If you're in this 'to help people' why don't you do nursing/physio/other allied health? What exactly about medicine is it that you want to do?
- If you're in this to 'constantly keep learning' or for 'depth of knowledge' then why aren't you doing a science degree?
- Have you actually thought through how you're going to support yourself for the next 6 years? Do you still want to do this?
- What makes you better than the other applicant with a 99 ATAR? What have you actually done that talks about who you are?
- What do you actually know about JCU medicine? How is the course structured? Have you spoken to any students doing the course currently, what did they have to say about it? (FEEL FREE TO ASK ABOUT THIS BELOW!)
Why do you want to learn specifically about Indigenous/tropical/rural/remote health?
This question is tough and really weeds out the people who have and haven't done research. Do not think you can answer this question appropriately if you haven't at least tried to read up on what these all mean. You need to think about what they(the groups above) have, what they don't have, what different things they have to overcome for health care and how living in a rural area is such a huge factor for poor health. Why do you think that is? What reasons can you come up with for why people in rural areas have poor health? Why does that make you WANT to do this? Don't just talk about the differences, make it clear why this inspires you/challenges you etc.
The harsh truth is that rural practice is completely and totally different from metropolitan practice in the sense that there is both poorer health care in the majority of tropical Australia/tropical anywhere because it's so rural (leading to diseases that normally wouldn't have a significant impact having an incredibly large impact - see Rheumatic Heart Disease as a result of group A Strep. infections which is primarily a tropical and low socioeconomic disease) and also in the sense that tropical areas provide the perfect environment for a huge number of diseases that simply can't survive in other environments - see melioidosis, leptospirorsis, dengue fever, malaria and an almost endless list of diseases you won't see anywhere else which have largely been eradicated in more populated areas due to prevention measures and better hygiene/health care.
If you don't actually know anything about rural/remote/tropic/Indigenous health then tell them that you don't, but of course admit that with something in mind - do you want to learn about those things? Actually think about it, is helping the underserved population something you're actually interested in? Because if it isn't, perhaps JCU isn't a place you want to be - it really is a big, big emphasis. As for a couple things you can read, maybe try these: Rural and Regional Health Australia - Health status
The summary of this: http://www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/Down...?id=6442459831
Though this is likely the best one to read: http://www.health.gov.au/internet/nh...(j%20humph.pdf
If you're only going to read one of those make it the last one, basically the issues that you need to think about are (in brief and not all-inclusive): in rural areas it is harder to actually get to people (further away from everything); the majority of people in rural areas have a different, occupational view of health such that it's unlikely they'll see a doctor or a dentist unless they absolutely have to/it stops them from working; confidentiality is a huge problem since in most rural towns its very hard to go to a doctor/dentist without knowing the receptionist or other people there first hand; there's further problems in that rural towns and their populations are generally poorer/have a lower socioeconomic status along with a lower level of education which all lead to poor health decisions and couple all of that with much greater rates of smoking, alcohol, tobacco and mental health problems and you've got the average rural town with significantly lower health outcomes.
Questions to ask yourself:
- What does rural health even mean? Can you explain it?
- What do you know about the Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander population that makes up so much of FNQ's patient base? Why is it like this? What can we do to actually change it?
- Have you ever lived in/stayed at/been to a rural area? Where and why? What was it like? Did you like it - if so, why? If not - how come?
Paid Employment/Work Experience Etc.
The following is quoted out of a thread fully available here: Note for work experience
Many applicants attend work experience and get some huge profound thing out of it/"fall in love with medicine" and describe this in their interview. Keep in mind that your interviewers are mostly doctors who have all been through medical school and have done more than a few interviews; they will 100% see through your bullshit.
In saying that, I feel that someone who spends time on a medical placement prior to their application and doesn't at least try to reflect on it during their interview has wasted their time. This is just about the only time when reflecting on your pre-medical school placement will actually be useful to anyone other than yourself and by not highlighting it you're losing out on that.
It also demonstrates quite clearly that you actually have a reasonable idea of what the job in the future might be like. Sure, you're not really going to understand it deeply but you have a much better idea than someone who has never set foot in a hospital/clinic.
I think that someone who goes on a medical placement and instantly "falls in love with it" or something similar is not thinking critically or reflecting on it properly. The most important thing to get out of the placement is a sense of what it's like to do the job from 8-5, to realise that amongst the brilliant moments where you connect with people/do medicine stuff and the like that it's a job with real work to be done. It's about realising how much you actually don't know, how much you have to learn and being excited about that prospect.
There's no other way you can realistically get the idea of how much there is to learn in this career without actually getting involved and considering that continued learning/academia throughout life is one of JCU's application questions and almost always a staple interview question it would be silly to not use the opportunities you have had to discuss it further and show you've put some real thought into it.
I agree with Pi that you need to set yourself apart, I just think that it should be through your critical thinking/evaluation of what happened at your medical placement rather than saying "I saw someone have a heart attack and we fixed it! MEDICINE IS GREAT!".
I'll cover your question about how long you should spend on the placement with more questions: are you still getting anything out of it? Not learning medicine (you'll do this in medical school) but actually getting experience of what your potential future is like? Do you have a solid understanding of the 8-5 job or have you only been going from 2-5pm? Have you done more than just sit with the Doctor, have you considered spending some time with the nurses, physiotherapists, other allied health? Do you feel like the placement has anything else to offer you?
Try and remember that even though you've decided 100% in your heart that you want to do medicine you realistically have no idea what the next 5-6 years of medical school and then your future after that entail. Don't spend this time trying to get a placement so it looks good on your interview, spend it trying to evaluate whether you actually want to do this as a life choice.
Other Relevant Details
There are a number of ways you can respond to this section of the JCU application and largely it depends on your personal experience - if you have something that you haven't been able to bring up in the previous questions then realistically this is where you can detail it. This is especially important for those with prior experience in fields that JCU is looking for - i.e. if you are currently an Indigenous Health Liason Officer working in the hospital/healthcare sector but for some reason haven't been able to bring it up earlier in the application then this is where you would put that information.
On the other end of the spectrum - i.e. high school graduates - this often allows for people to list achievements that aren't necessarily directly related to their medicine application but demonstrate leadership/commitment to learning etc. For example, if you represented Australia at a national level for sport; or you have written papers/been involved in research then you can list those references here. There are more examples I can give but again it's entirely dependent on your own personal background, whether you think the information you are putting down is worthwhile and/or demonstrates why you are a good applicant.
Letters of Support
Unless things have changed my understanding is that you submit a Letter of Support from a referee rather than contact details. In this sense JCU is incredibly unlikely to actually chase referees down themselves given the enormous number of applications they get and the inherent inability to contact people at any time of the day.
I wouldn't worry greatly about referees - unless they are exceptional it's unlikely they'll make a great deal of difference; every student worth their salt can find three people to say nice things about them and in that sense there's very little that actually sets apart referees and their letters of support. In saying this, it is not an area to neglect - definitely include 3 letters if you can get them!
I hope this clears things up a little bit and gives some of you a few ideas of how to proceed. Feel free to post any questions or answers to the questions I've posted above!
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