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Moral Dilemmas: Questions and Advice Requests

novobo

Member
tl;dr My friend copied a body paragraph from my English essay word-to-word, should I report him?

Here's the thing:
We finished our internal trial assessment for English not too long ago. Today, after we got our results back, the teacher told me to compare his style of writing to mine, as we both got full marks. My friend offered to let me see his essay as well, and he suggested that he "used some of the ideas" from my prepared body paragraphs. I have sent my prepared paragraphs for final exam use to him solely because he had been begging me for ages, and he said he were "merely collecting ideas from different people". I remember I told him "it's ok to look at ideas, but do not copy!" (as I really am not a skilled essay writer, I often sit the tests with prepared body paragraphs and then stuff them in the essay to fit the essay question)

Sadly, he didn't listen. I saw his first body paragraph, and realised that was the best body paragraph I have prepared. He copied literally word-to-word, and only changed a few sophisticated words to their synonyms.

To be honest, I am more disappointed than angry. I think he should learn a lesson from this misconduct, but he: 1) he is an international student, only in the sense that his parents have paid a lot for his education and put high expectations on him; 2) if he is penalised to get 0 for this 15 mark essay, his internal rank for English will drop significantly. This will surely affect his HSC mark for English.

I really don't know what to do. I told him to meet our teacher privately, just between us three. But I think it is the best that he only loses some partial marks, but cannot guarantee nonetheless.

Please feel free to comment on anything!
 
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Fili

Dentist 🦷
Moderator
tl;dr My friend copied a body paragraph from my English essay word-to-word, should I report him?

Here's the thing:
We finished our internal trial assessment for English not too long ago. Today, after we got our results back, the teacher told me to compare his style of writing to mine, as we both got full marks. My friend offered to let me see his essay as well, and he suggested that he "used some of the ideas" from my prepared body paragraphs. I have sent my prepared paragraphs for final exam use to him solely because he had been begging me for ages, and he said he were "merely collecting ideas from different people". I remember I told him "it's ok to look at ideas, but do not copy!" (as I really am not a skilled essay writer, I often sit the tests with prepared body paragraphs and then stuff them in the essay to fit the essay question)

Sadly, he didn't listen. I saw his first body paragraph, and realised that was the best body paragraph I have prepared. He copied literally word-to-word, and only changed a few sophisticated words to their synonyms.

To be honest, I am more disappointed than angry. I think he should learn a lesson from this misconduct, but he: 1) he is an international student, only in the sense that his parents have paid a lot for his education and put high expectations on him; 2) if he is penalised to get 0 for this 15 mark essay, his internal rank for English will drop significantly. This will surely affect his HSC mark for English.

I really don't know what to do. I told him to meet our teacher privately, just between us three. But I think it is the best that he only loses some partial marks, but cannot guarantee nonetheless.

Please feel free to comment on anything!

So what was your friend's reply when you brought up your concerns of them cheating off you?
 
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dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator
This sounds like a medical school interview question ahaha

Ok first of all, if it is how you say it is, this is plagiarism. Taking someone else's work and presenting in as their own is plagiarism in any shape or form.

However, I wouldn't recommend taking it straight to the teacher where their obligation is to award a zero for the assignment, first try to resolve it locally. Have you tried asking your friend why you think its plagiarism. Keep in mind when it comes to two students studying the same text, with the same teacher, analysing the same themes, answering the same question, have been taught the same way how to write essays, etc.... there is ALOT of overlap when you 'just change a few synonyms'. Your friend may be able to point out to you how he might of gained inspiration from various resources given out to the class, other students, etc. Genuinely listen to what he has to say, dont think of any answer he gives as a 'cop out', etc
 

novobo

Member
So what was your friend's reply when you brought up your concerns of them cheating off you?
To be honest, I think he still doesn't see the seriousness of this offence. This afternoon when I told him "this is straight up plagiarism", he didn't quite respond. When we left school, he even got the mood to joke around, so I reckon:
1) this afternoon he didn't see what was the big deal
2) right now after I brought up we might meet with the teacher in SMS, he is really willing to see the teacher (quite surprisingly) and has apologised.

I feel like it's just that I'm normally too light-hearted, so he didn't quite take my *rage* as seriously. But my texts to him really emphasised my attitude.
 

LeSpicyGinger

Flinders MD II
This sounds like a medical school interview question ahaha

Ok first of all, if it is how you say it is, this is plagiarism. Taking someone else's work and presenting in as their own is plagiarism in any shape or form.

However, I wouldn't recommend taking it straight to the teacher where their obligation is to award a zero for the assignment, first try to resolve it locally. Have you tried asking your friend why you think its plagiarism. Keep in mind when it comes to two students studying the same text, with the same teacher, analysing the same themes, answering the same question, have been taught the same way how to write essays, etc.... there is ALOT of overlap when you 'just change a few synonyms'. Your friend may be able to point out to you how he might of gained inspiration from various resources given out to the class, other students, etc. Genuinely listen to what he has to say, dont think of any answer he gives as a 'cop out', etc

ezoolong This answer is likely better than mine
 

novobo

Member
This sounds like a medical school interview question ahaha

Ok first of all, if it is how you say it is, this is plagiarism. Taking someone else's work and presenting in as their own is plagiarism in any shape or form.

However, I wouldn't recommend taking it straight to the teacher where their obligation is to award a zero for the assignment, first try to resolve it locally. Have you tried asking your friend why you think its plagiarism. Keep in mind when it comes to two students studying the same text, with the same teacher, analysing the same themes, answering the same question, have been taught the same way how to write essays, etc.... there is ALOT of overlap when you 'just change a few synonyms'. Your friend may be able to point out to you how he might of gained inspiration from various resources given out to the class, other students, etc. Genuinely listen to what he has to say, dont think of any answer he gives as a 'cop out', etc

I absolutely agree with your points that I should listen to what he says! My little worry is that I always get *too* compassionate and start thinking "eh what's the big deal" or finding excuses for the guilty ones. This has long been my character, and I'm not sure if that's a good trait ;-;

And the problem is that it is really a 95% copying and pasting haha! (why haha) Sentences are straight up the same sentences; same for everything. But quite weird that he only copies one paragraph not all three. It would've been a lot easier that way (I can just report without any worry).

updates:
Apologies for claiming it was “totally word-for-word” and “same everywhere”, it started off the same but was slightly different near the end.
 
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whys

Regular Member
To be honest, I think he still doesn't see the seriousness of this offence. This afternoon when I told him "this is straight up plagiarism", he didn't quite respond. When we left school, he even got the mood to joke around, so I reckon:
1) this afternoon he didn't see what was the big deal
2) right now after I brought up we might meet with the teacher in SMS, he is really willing to see the teacher (quite surprisingly) and has apologised.

I feel like it's just that I'm normally too light-hearted, so he didn't quite take my *rage* as seriously. But my texts to him really emphasised my attitude.
If your friend is happy to see the teacher then he:
1. Does not understand the consequences of plagiarism
2. Does not see what he did as plagiarism
Figuring out which 2 of these categories he falls into can help you proceed with how you approach the situation (or perhaps it's both). Since this has occurred in your trials it is quite a significant issue too. Like dotwingz has said, this is straight-up plagiarism. You should try to talk to your friend and establish that this is a serious matter and discuss his motive for doing this - if he is downplaying the significance of it irl then you could text/call him (perhaps this will elicit a better response). It's good you are concerned for your friend and his feelings but in the end, plagiarism is plagiarism and whoever it is, they need to face the consequences of their actions so they learn that it's not ok to rip off someone else's hard work. Since you two are friends you can talk about any concerns, etc, but this shouldn't stop you from reporting the issue, because this forms a part of your HSC and is a pretty big deal, and if this goes unchecked then he could be expelled from uni for plagiarising work if he continues to do so. Do take his feelings into consideration but don't let that stop you from reporting this.

EDIT: Personally, I think it's best if you talk it out with your friend before letting the teacher know, but I still think it's imperative to tell the teacher at some point soon because you can't resolve the entirety of the matter yourself.
 

WASGIJ

Member
My concern would be that he was asking others for inspiration, and possibly plagiarising their work. Perhaps they have done this before. Regardless this seems to be something that the teacher should address, it could be a lack of understanding what constitutes as plagiarism but that should be determined and addressed by the school. I would advise you to get your friend to talk to the teacher about the situation, or if he refuses to talk to the teacher yourself.

In terms of only wanting him to lose a few marks, the school will determine the appropriate action.
 

novobo

Member
If your friend is happy to see the teacher then he:
1. Does not understand the consequences of plagiarism
2. Does not see what he did as plagiarism
Figuring out which 2 of these categories he falls into can help you proceed with how you approach the situation (or perhaps it's both). Since this has occurred in your trials it is quite a significant issue too. Like dotwingz has said, this is straight-up plagiarism. You should try to talk to your friend and establish that this is a serious matter and discuss his motive for doing this - if he is downplaying the significance of it irl then you could text/call him (perhaps this will elicit a better response). It's good you are concerned for your friend and his feelings but in the end, plagiarism is plagiarism and whoever it is, they need to face the consequences of their actions so they learn that it's not ok to rip off someone else's hard work. Since you two are friends you can talk about any concerns, etc, but this shouldn't stop you from reporting the issue, because this forms a part of your HSC and is a pretty big deal, and if this goes unchecked then he could be expelled from uni for plagiarising work if he continues to do so. Do take his feelings into consideration but don't let that stop you from reporting this.

Thanks man! The two points were so incisive and I would definitely not avoid talking to him about this face to face or maybe on call (boy I stammer a lot when I get emotional). Hopefully he can take his responsibilities and admit his errors, but I might try to understand if the consequence is "0" or partial marks off before proceeding with reporting.

To be honest, what I'm imagining as the best outcome is that:
1. he can explore why he decided to copy, maybe locally with me first or together with the teacher (he REALLY wouldn't do that with a clean and conscious mindset, he is definitely capable by all means)
2. any mitigating factor and the fact that he only used one body paragraph can hopefully only cost him at most 2 bands (so he gets ~10/15)


My concern would be that he was asking others for inspiration, and possibly plagiarising their work. Perhaps they have done this before. Regardless this seems to be something that the teacher should address, it could be a lack of understanding what constitutes as plagiarism but that should be determined and addressed by the school. I would advise you to get your friend to talk to the teacher about the situation, or if he refuses to talk to the teacher yourself.

In terms of only wanting him to lose a few marks, the school will determine the appropriate action.
Yes I will ask him if this is his first time or otherwise, just for my information. Thanks for the reply!
 
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chezpopcorn

UNSW BMedMD II
If it really was word for word, I don't think it matters if he did it deliberately or not- and your teachers should've picked up on it! In my school, according to protocol (NSW that is), penalties for plagarism are the same whether it was intentional or not. E.g. someone plagiarized a line off some novel word for word without realizing it and was still penalized. Lmao, I think other people's suggestions, although a good one, about talking to him first and asking him to talk to the teacher himself is a bit idealistic and SJT-esque imo. From experience, if you raise your concerns to the teacher, no harm is done even if you are wrong. If they were to inquire into it further, they won't tell your friend it was you that said it, (well they aren't to anyways).

tldr, please let your teacher know! Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself at all, even if they are your friend :) Other people copying your hard work and getting the credit for it isn't fair. No excuses. I remember being in a similar-ish scenario when I realised one of my classmates plagarised some celebrity's award acceptance speech word for word and managed to win the school's public speaking award.... 😬

Also, it's really nice to see someone so caring like you to worry about your friend's mark but don't burden yourself with it! It is solely his fault if the teachers agree with you, and whether he gets 0, or a few marks off is the head teacher/principals dilemma, not yours! Don't let it sway your decision :)
 

Eleanor Rigby

Regular Member
The facts of the matter is that your so-called friend has cheated. Imagine a world filled with people like him/her. There will be no rest! The thing about dishonesty is that it catches up on you. One of the worst kind of lies are the ones you tell yourself. Pretending to be a brilliant writer when you are just a phony is sad & pathetic. Tell your friend to take it on the chin for what he has done, he'll be better for it.
 

dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator
From experience, if you raise your concerns to the teacher, no harm is done even if you are wrong. If they were to inquire into it further, they won't tell your friend it was you that said it, (well they aren't to anyways).

I disagree with this. Whilst i know what youre saying, approaching someone and asking for clarification on why you thought someone was cheating is not at all idealistic. In my year, I had to do a physics model for which i chose to do a rather uniquely designed powerpoint to express a certain effect. I was sharing my ideas in our course group chat as a sort of clarification on what we should be showing and a peer of mine showed me his which was strikingly similar to mine a few days later. I mulled on it and asked him whether he copied (phrasing it in such a way as: i don't mind but we will both get burnt if so) and he showed me his earlier designs which were dated from before he even knew of mine. It wasn't at all an idealistic approach, and he completely understood my perspective and i understood his.

If I went straight to the teacher, I would of burnt a very productive bridge with someone, causing unnecessary stress to the both of us. Standing up for your work is not at all a bad trait, but causing stress and trouble over fixable issues is not at all a mature nor appropriate approach. Especially given the stressful times you are both about to walk into.

The facts of the matter is that your so-called friend has cheated. Imagine a world filled with people like him/her. There will be no rest! The thing about dishonesty is that it catches up on you. One of the worst kind of lies are the ones you tell yourself. Pretending to be a brilliant writer when you are just a phony is sad & pathetic. Tell your friend to take it on the chin for what he has done, he'll be better for it.

Do you know that though? Sure the work sounds familiar but like i said in my other reply, as two pupils in the same class/course/school there is a large overlap in what you learn, and two friends who possible have bounced off each other for essay preparation in the past will likely have similar essay structures and tones (I know me and my mate used to produce pretty much identical economics essays despite writing them in complete isolation of each other). Have you had extensive discussions with him on this issue to see his side? I beg you all to give the person the benefit of doubt and put yourself into their shoes. This is an issue you will see later in life, espesically in your preparation for medical school interviews.

ETA: If youre confident he cheated after actually talking to the guy and hearing his side of the story, then yeah get him to knock it on the chin. Academic Integrity IS important, but you should be wary about what information you are privy too when reporting him.
 

garmonbozia

Membered Value
Valued Member
Reporting your friend is in not only your interest but also the interest of all the other students in your grade, whom he's unfairly pushed down by gaining an illegitimate ranking over them. If he's not pulled up on this now, who knows what he might attempt in the actual HSC?

ETA: If you don't tell the teacher about this right now, and they only find out about the plagiarism later, then the teacher might suspect you of being the plagiarist!
 
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novobo

Member
If it really was word for word, I don't think it matters if he did it deliberately or not- and your teachers should've picked up on it! In my school, according to protocol (NSW that is), penalties for plagarism are the same whether it was intentional or not. E.g. someone plagiarized a line off some novel word for word without realizing it and was still penalized. Lmao, I think other people's suggestions, although a good one, about talking to him first and asking him to talk to the teacher himself is a bit idealistic and SJT-esque imo. From experience, if you raise your concerns to the teacher, no harm is done even if you are wrong. If they were to inquire into it further, they won't tell your friend it was you that said it, (well they aren't to anyways).

tldr, please let your teacher know! Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself at all, even if they are your friend :) Other people copying your hard work and getting the credit for it isn't fair. No excuses. I remember being in a similar-ish scenario when I realised one of my classmates plagarised some celebrity's award acceptance speech word for word and managed to win the school's public speaking award.... 😬
It was quite disheartening and surprising that my teacher didn't pick up the identical paragraphs! Can absolutely see how much effort she has put into our class now smh (my teacher is the only one marking the essays)
 

chezpopcorn

UNSW BMedMD II
O
I disagree with this. Whilst i know what youre saying, approaching someone and asking for clarification on why you thought someone was cheating is not at all idealistic. In my year, I had to do a physics model for which i chose to do a rather uniquely designed powerpoint to express a certain effect. I was sharing my ideas in our course group chat as a sort of clarification on what we should be showing and a peer of mine showed me his which was strikingly similar to mine a few days later. I mulled on it and asked him whether he copied (phrasing it in such a way as: i don't mind but we will both get burnt if so) and he showed me his earlier designs which were dated from before he even knew of mine. It wasn't at all an idealistic approach, and he completely understood my perspective and i understood his.

If I went straight to the teacher, I would of burnt a very productive bridge with someone, causing unnecessary stress to the both of us. Standing up for your work is not at all a bad trait, but causing stress and trouble over fixable issues is not at all a mature nor appropriate approach. Especially given the stressful times you are both about to walk into.

That's fair enough! I was thinking more so in the context of ezoolong's scenario, with their friend treating their concerns as a bit of a joke, it would be unlikely he would agree to see the teacher :)
 

Eleanor Rigby

Regular Member
It was quite disheartening and surprising that my teacher didn't pick up the identical paragraphs! Can absolutely see how much effort she has put into our class now smh (my teacher is the only one marking the essays)
Probably underpaid and giving each essay ten minutes of her time. Probably have other challenges on her mind like when am I going to be back paid for this.
 

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novobo

Member
O


That's fair enough! I was thinking more so in the context of ezoolong's scenario, with their friend treating their concerns as a bit of a joke, it would be unlikely he would agree to see the teacher :)

Alright guys, I'm talking to him now. All work I have done today is just taking out my workbook and opening it.

Updates:
apologies to my previous claim that it was a 95% plagiarism, I would say 85%

He took photos of his work and I compared it. So a body paragraph has
1) a topic sentence -- he copied word for word
2) elaboration on the topic -- copied word for word
3) 1st quote + analysis -- copied
4) Another sub-point to elaborate on the topic -- not copied here; [2 sentences of his own quotes]
5) 2nd quote + analysis -- it's a bit cutting the edge, but can see similarities
6) concluding sentence -- different
 

N182

Regular Member
Alright guys, I'm talking to him now. All work I have done today is just taking out my workbook and opening it.

Updates:
apologies to my previous claim that it was a 95% plagiarism, I would say 85%

He took photos of his work and I compared it. So a body paragraph has
1) a topic sentence -- he copied word for word
2) elaboration on the topic -- copied word for word
3) 1st quote + analysis -- copied
4) Another sub-point to elaborate on the topic -- not copied here; [2 sentences of his own quotes]
5) 2nd quote + analysis -- it's a bit cutting the edge, but can see similarities
6) concluding sentence -- different
The first 3 points are clearly copied from you. It's impossible for it to be simply a coincidence even if you are in the same class, same notes/resources etc. The fact that it's word for word means he copied you (this is different from just same structure ideas etc.). He also probably just changed the last few parts of the paragraph to avoid suspension (although I'm assuming this). So like the previous posters mentioned in my opinion I would see the teacher about this.
 

novobo

Member
I was a little emotional when making the decision, but I do not regret (up until now). I thought of what I would feel in his position, plus considering the deep guilt he showed, so I decided to keep this matter from the teacher and leave the decision solely to him. I have, however, suggested that it is a good idea to reveal his misconduct to the teacher after HSC, but it would be up to him (tbh it sounds like a worse act to only reveal it then, but marks do make people go miserable; I probably would do that if I was him).

I know I’m not making the right decision, and I admit that I’m not competent enough to be a doctor and hold its ethics. I will definitely learn from this experience, and surely will he.

What really makes me feel the worst throughout our chat was the last lines he gave, summing up the meaning:
’any excuse I make right now is irrelevant and useless, as I have really made the wrong decision and didn’t consider the consequences. I’m feeling extremely ashamed.‘

Thats the end of the discussion (hopefully), and guys, DO NOT show your essay to anyone!
 
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