Moved from Official UMAT thread

[hoscar01]

Originally posted by animadverted@Sep 20 2007, 05:45 PM
oh right, I don't know what this group of 8 thing is so I'm only familiar with the 6.5. Anyway, it doesn't matter, that's awesome that it's looking likely you'll get in

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Thanks animadverted, im pretty excited.

Just for clarification Group of Eight research-intensive universities include University of Queensland, University of Sydney, University of NSW, Australian National University (ANU), University of Melbourne, Monash University, University of Adelaide, and University of Western Australia.

Non group of 8 = all others.

 

[Abbie_Grace]

Originally posted by xpatryot@Sep 20 2007, 06:43 PM
S1 - 60 (87%)
S2 - 52 (67%)
S3 - 56 (75%)

Overall - 56 (81%)

Haha, you must have had a really nice UAI estimate, Kira, because I didn't get an interview at NSW. And no email at all, coming to think of it. No offer, no rejection email ... hmm. Ah well, might as well get a good UAI now. Good luck everyone, and well done!

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Ring them!! I got neither a rejection or acceptance, and it turns out that it was because they had my name recorded wrong, not that I didn't have a good enough UMAT. It's worth a try.

 

[xpatryot]

Originally posted by Abbie_Grace@Sep 20 2007, 07:00 PM
Ring them!!  I got neither a rejection or acceptance, and it turns out that it was because they had my name recorded wrong, not that I didn't have a good enough UMAT.  It's worth a try.

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I did. And I got a 'no interview, sorry about that try again.' I asked them if they could send an email but she said I'd have to wait for it in due time? Huh?

Maybe I should try to ring again and clarify it. My estimate I sent in was 98.2, and now it's 99.1. My school doesn't send trials results in time to UNSW. *sigh* Let's keep working!

[Telling you that this post was edited, after thinking about it ]

 

[Veon]

Originally posted by Yoke@Sep 20 2007, 04:53 PM
Courage and pride has led me to post my results. Some people consider the UMAT as the determining factor or perfect indicator as the 'superior' and desirable doctor, which to an extent may possibly be true, or untrue. It is arguable. In my case, I disagree, as you would all soon understand why.

The fear of posting my unlikeable results stems from people's negative perspectives towards me; inadequacy in linguistics and comprehension, lack of empathy/sympathy etc, and lack of intellectual ability. But I believe that this statistical measure does not correspond with my own competency etc. There are so many factors that can affect performance on the day...Anyway, I am not going to pay any attention to what others think of me as a person or a 'future' doctor, hence my contribution to this discussion.

Section 1: 41 (19%)
Section 2: 44 (37%)
Section 3: 52 (57%)

OVERALL: 46 (32%)

Raw Mark Total: 137
Percentile Total: 113%

Mmmm nonetheless, I have still got my head up, and will strive for medicine 2009 . Good luck to those who received results that satisfy them! Good luck in the interview processes and everything else that will get you into medicine 2008!

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It is ludicrous to suggest that a multi-choice examination with arbitrary and idiosyncratic questions, will provide an accurate indicator of ability to perform as a health professional.
I don't even care if these questions are devised by current health professionals or people who are supposed to be 'in the know'.
Wtf, if it's supposed to guage aptitude how the hell do people virtually always improve their score through doing it?
Should not a proper test of this nature be able to get a reading on the first go?
Or is it as we suspect; a raffle ticket system?
Being a good health professional means different things to different people, and i think any attempt to weed out undesirables should only occur in the form of an interview, and then only to try to grasp an idea of the person's motivation and
communication skills (highly important, in my mind).

I advocate a lottery system where all candidates who achieve an ENTER of above a certain threshold (say, 95 or something) are then assigned a number.
These are then all chucked into a hat and a certain amount are drawn by a woman in a frilly dress.
These kids are then offered an interview.

At least this system doesn't claim to 'prove' worth as a student doctor,etc.
We would get no hard feelings, no implication that we are somehow less compassionate, less logical, less visually perceptive, less suited to succeed in our profession of choice and at the end of the day it makes much more sense than the UMAT, anyway.

 

[Shepwarp]

Yoke, I love that you posted that because I think you basically encapsulated what we've all been thinking

I don't understand why they assume the UMAT is an accurate guide if someone can get a different score from year to year. But anyway... hopefully someone will fix the whole UMAT thing soon. It should just be based on TER and interview I think... just my opinion.

And Veon, I have heard of the raffle ticket system being used in Germany. Exactly as you stated. They get all candidates with scores above a certain threshold and pull their names out of a barrell.

 

[Veon]

How then would you decide who gets interviews?
Far too many people apply to have them all interviewed.
Ideally everyone does, but they number in the tens of thousands, i'd imagine.

ENTER isn't an indicator of much either, but it's still the lesser of the two evils i suppose.

 

[Shepwarp]

I don't know... make the TER a higher cut off... and then make them fill out forms about themselves. Achievements and all that jazz...

 

[TeamSherman]

Hi all, can someone please tell me what the overall score is out of? im too tired right now to work it out??

 

[Veon]

I don't know... make the TER a higher cut off...

Er? One of the biggest problems with the current system is that perfectly capable students are missing out because of a few points in a stupid ranking.
The only thing more unfair than the UMAT for deciding interviews, is the fact that the ENTER cutoffs are so ridiculously enforced in the selection process, rather than just being hurdles.
Jacking up the ENTER won't make it fairer, to my way of thinking.

and then make them fill out forms about themselves. Achievements and all that jazz...]

Achivements? What would you expect people to put?
Academic achievements? Isn't this ENTER?
Community/Extra-curricular achievements?
Not everybody has the capacity to do this.
We don't have fancy-pants programs where we go to 'help the socioeconomically disadvantaged', and get our names in the paper.
I can't imagine any sort of 'achievement' that would deem me more suitable over anyone else.

I was denied school captaincy because i made a joke during my nomination speech. I said i'd oppose the war on Iraq, as well as cereal as a breakfast food. This was in year 8. I was taken off the ballot and was never allowed to run again.
I was denied the ability to do 'peer support' stuff, where you're in a leadership sort of role introducing new students in year 7 to high school life, because i was deemed 'too irresponsible and inappropriate in my humour, it might set a bad example'.
But enough of why the world is against me; we have those sorts of forms for some unis anyway. I don't think they help in seperating applicants.

 

[Shepwarp]

Originally posted by Veon@Sep 20 2007, 09:20 PM
Er? One of the biggest problems with the current system is that perfectly capable students are missing out because of a few points in a stupid ranking.
The only thing more unfair than the UMAT for deciding interviews, is the fact that the ENTER cutoffs are so ridiculously enforced in the selection process, rather than just being hurdles.
Jacking up the ENTER won't make it fairer, to my way of thinking.
Achivements? What would you expect people to put?
Academic achievements? Isn't this ENTER?
Community/Extra-curricular achievements?
Not everybody has the capacity to do this.
We don't have fancy-pants programs where we go to 'help the socioeconomically disadvantaged', and get our names in the paper.
I can't imagine any sort of 'achievement' that would deem me more suitable over anyone else.

I was denied school captaincy because i made a joke during my nomination speech. I said i'd oppose the war on Iraq, as well as cereal as a breakfast food. This was in year 8. I was taken off the ballot and was never allowed to run again.
I was denied the ability to do 'peer support' stuff, where you're in a leadership sort of role introducing new students in year 7 to high school life, because i was deemed 'too irresponsible and inappropriate in my humour, it might set a bad example'.
But enough of why the world is against me; we have those sorts of forms for some unis anyway. I don't think they help in seperating applicants.

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Well ok... I think your opinions are fine... but I think we're going to have to face the fact that medicine is a difficult degree that requires a certain level of intellectual aptitude as well as a certain level of self discipline and willingness to work hard. Not exactly qualities that everyone has, but I think those two qualities are effectively assessed through ENTER.

Veon, you're sounding pretty bitter about my suggestion of using achievements... but really... the opportunity to get out into the community exists everywhere, regardless of 'fancy pants' programs as you'd like to call them. By mentioning extracurricular as well as community involvement you will show those assessing your applications that you have hobbies and interests outside of study...

 

[TeamSherman]

Originally posted by TeamSherman@Sep 20 2007, 08:12 PM
Hi all, can someone please tell me what the overall score is out of? im too tired right now to work it out??

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Anyone?????

 

[AussieChica]

It's out of 300 (technically).

See the link in my sig to get an idea of what kind of UMAT unis look for for med

 

[TeamSherman]

I mean, with all the results that people are posting saying OVERALL = ??, what is that overall score out of?

Some scores have been for example: 46, 56, 70 ect.

 

[anonymouse]

Overall score caps out around 80 (according to the graph given on the candidate page)

 

[AussieChica]

They mean the average of their three scores.

Edit- oops no it's not. It should say on your UMAT slip.

How is the Overall Score calculated?
A The Overall UMAT Score is an unweighted average of the three Section scores, statistically calculated from two decimal
places. It is not possible for candidates to replicate this process.

(Hehe got my hands on a friend's 2007 UMAT slip).

Some of you who didn't do as well as you hoped might be interested in this thread:
http://www.medstudentsonline.com/forums/-topic3654.html

 

[Veon]

Well ok... I think your opinions are fine... but I think we're going to have to face the fact that medicine is a difficult degree that requires a certain level of intellectual aptitude as well as a certain level of self discipline and willingness to work hard. Not exactly qualities that everyone has, but I think those two qualities are effectively assessed through ENTER.

That's all well and good but ignores the fact that a few points of seperation at the higher end of the spectrum hardly shows much difference, if any, in intellectual capacity, self discipline or ability to work hard.
Sometimes it's just two or three points on an exam here or there.

These qualities are effectively assessed when you compare an ENTER of 50 and an ENTER of 90, but not between 94 and 97, say.
I don't think it's fair to say that the person with 97 is any 'better' than the 94, intellectually or in terms of discipline/hard work, especially considering almost every exam can be crammed for, whereas people who put in the hard yards all year may choke on the exam.

Furthermore, as i have already expressed, this community involvement stuff, regardless of the relevance of it, i for one, find i barely have enough time to sleep, let alone enough energy to perform community service, however altruistic i may be.
The hobbies i pursue are rather boring, frankly.
I collect botanical themed stamps and stamps depicting portraits, i paint miniatures, i go for walks and i like watching Antiques Roadshow.
I used to play football and cricket and rugby for the school team but i've had to forgo these sorts of interests due to the heavy workload.

I don't have the time to do all this community involvement stuff, and really, if you include it as a requirement, then what you have is a bunch of people doing community service just so they can put it down on the sheet.
Is that necessarily a good thing? What then, does this show?
Does this not defeat the purpose of doing volountary work?

Again, i don't really see much relevance in using these sorts of things to seperate applicants, but i do see the benefit of the idea, in theory.

Perhaps something akin to the US system where we need to write an essay.

 

[anonymouse]

I don't think so... the overall score is different to sum or average of scaled scores AC

 

[AussieChica]

Oops- ya I corrected my post

Originally posted by Veon@Sep 20 2007, 08:58 PM
Perhaps something akin to the US system where we need to write an essay.

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LOL I almost wrote one of my friend's U.S. college essays for her (she got in but later rejected the college ). Srsly Veon that leads to the whole "people who can pay people to do this for them vs. people who have to rely on their own disadvantaged selves" phenomenon.

 

[L337]

Originally posted by liverpool3k@Sep 20 2007, 09:50 PM
Overall score caps out around 80 (according to the graph given on the candidate page)

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Unfortunately, I'm not seeing said graph

 

[anonymouse]

hmm. if you click on "view your results, and then "Candidate ranking information for 2007 is available here", it should come up