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No UMAT needed- a good or a bad thing?

Jackie

=D
Emeritus
Effort can be outtrumped by other factors which can destroy one's result (e.g. bad luck, nervousness, EDIT: oh and a big one, SABOTAGE!)
 

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Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus
Effort can be outtrumped by other factors which can destroy one's result (e.g. bad luck, nervousness)
Though one could argue that performance under stress would be a positive attribute in a medical student/doctor ;)
 

NoobyMcNooberton

Regular Member
Well from my situation and were I have come I have to respectively disagree. When I was 5 i was diagnosed by a Psychiatrist with dyslexia, and told that I would struggle through school in written academics. However, I was well advanced in oral communication, and interaction with others, especially adults - my problem was putting that on paper, an intellectual gap my parents were told would never close. Now, at 17, I am in year 12 and achieving A's, through luck? natural ability? No, years and years of effort.
 

Jackie

=D
Emeritus
Once again I agree with you - the UMAT is already pushed to it's limits as is the interview, removing the interview however only results in pushing the UMAT and ATAR further to their limits. Something needs to be changed, but no realistic solution has been found as of yet.
This.

Though one could argue that performance under stress would be a positive attribute in a medical student/doctor ;)
Just added sabotage lol... then again, you might be looking for that in the handling of future office disputes :p
UMAT's objective so how would they know unless you're applying for misadventure etc.
 

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Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus
Misadventure...I could throw a fair few sarcastic and cynical remarks that way but I think I'll leave it at that ;)

Nooby: Seems like there wasn't an issue with innate ability then eh? By that I mean the people that give it their all and still only receive an average mark.
 

LemonTea

Senior Procrastinator
Well from my situation and were I have come I have to respectively disagree. When I was 5 i was diagnosed by a Psychiatrist with dyslexia, and told that I would struggle through school in written academics. However, I was well advanced in oral communication, and interaction with others, especially adults - my problem was putting that on paper, an intellectual gap my parents were told would never close. Now, at 17, I am in year 12 and achieving A's, through luck? natural ability? No, years and years of effort.
So you tried really hard and then achieved something difficult. We're not arguing that individual effort has NO effect on individual results. We're arguing that the correlation between effort and result in a sample of people would not be particularly strong. So, for any given person who puts in an amount of effort and reaches a certain result, there can easily be someone else who put in more effort and did worse, and someone else who put in less effort but did better.
 

NoobyMcNooberton

Regular Member
.....
Nooby: Seems like there wasn't an issue with innate ability then eh? By that I mean the people that give it their all and still only receive an average mark.
"There all" can be defined in many ways. Eg. Cramming days before each test and exam or continuously studying and making notes. By which i mean the efficiency or method used can matter. How you use your effort is crucial, as effort is reliant on motivation which is a valuable resource indeed :lol:

"There all" is really finding the learning method that works for you best, tailoring your study, and efficiency (very suitable word lol)
 

JeremiahGreenspoon

Regular Member
I imagine that sometimes, when practicing, there simply isn't the time/capacity to give it your all (under any definition) and you have to rely on innate ability.

(Hasn't uni started in which case shouldn't everyone be doing something more useful?)
 

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Jjub

Regular Member
I imagine that sometimes, when practicing, there simply isn't the time/capacity to give it your all (under any definition) and you have to rely on innate ability.

(Hasn't uni started in which case shouldn't everyone be doing something more useful?)
Next week... only O Week at the moment... which in itself is procrastination ;)
 

iUsername

Regular Member
IMO the UMAT or an interview alone is enough to flush out those who don't possess a passion.
I don't believe that at all....UMAT shows nothing about passion. All it helps is to drag the average GPA down so that those who aren't geniuses or bookworms have a decent shot at medicine.
I'm not entirely sure that the interview can weed out those without passion. It's hard for a lot of people to come across as passionate to complete strangers in 20-30 mins. I've met a few people in med that should have never gotten through the interview...
 

Studental

New Member
Honestly, without UMAT and interview at Griffith Uni I wouldn't be in the degree. Its sad that the focus is changing towards grades instead of the UMAT/ Interview days. There's a reason smart 99.95er's got dumped with Interviews. They just couldn't communicate. That's basic 101 for treating patients. If it were upto me it would be Interview and School Grades 50:50. If you work hard, you'll have good grades, and if you communicate well you'll be sweet in an interview.

Having said that Griffith has a really strong emphasis on following the best scientific evidence available. And most will agree that studies show no difference in quality of graduates/ drop-out rates from university to university if they have combinations of UMAT/ Interview/ Entry Grades... The one selection criteria alone to constantly produce "High achieving" graduates is "Entry Grades" gated entry.

But when you think about it... How high achieving are they really? Like... it's one thing to know how to do a Class II resto... It's another thing to build a practice and retain and care for 1000 patients. Food for thought.
 

Studental

New Member
And I forgot to mention that NOT ALL 99.95er's couldn't communicate. I was just making the point that some of them didn't make the grade and that's how interviews were used. I actually got a rejection letter from Griffith Uni, and then 1 week before schoolies I get a phone call saying I was shortlisted and they would love to see me. That sort of thing can't happen with a "Grades only" system.

I just wonder how universities like UQ and Griffith would make their selections if the number of applicants with high grades (ie OP1/ HSC 99/ GPA 7) exceeded the number of places available.
 

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Cide

Regular Member
Well UQ still uses UMAT for the moment so it doesn't have that problem yet. I do wonder what Griffith would do if there were more applicants than spots. Name out of the hat? :p.
 

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