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Internship: NSW Preferencing and Explanation

DrDrLMG!

Resident Medical Officer
Administrator
Wait what, if CV and uni marks are completely irrelevant to which hospital you'll be allocated to in NSW, how do they choose applicants for internship and residency other than your priority category??

I believe it's largely a preferencing and ballot system.
 

DamE

Lurker
How does this work? Unless you mean in individual hospital networks?

As a cat 2 applicant currently anxiously awaiting an offer (I also applied through DRA), I've noticed that HETI has already made many offers to cat 3 and 4 applicants via DRA, which makes me concerned that I won't get one (this is based off their Twitter account).

I read in earlier posts that everyone in cat 2 should get an offer (?), but in the Annual Report from last year, 19 people in cat 2 did not receive an offer, while in the year before 62 people in cat 2 did not get an offer. Am I reading the tables wrong?

Could anyone please clarify? I know there are no guarantees for cat 2 but I was really hoping to move back to NSW :confused:.

Hi purple1, did you end up getting an offer? Would love to know as I am also a future Cat2 applicant for NSW.
 

yesiam

Lurker
Hi guys, I'm also a cat 2 applying for NSW internship next year. I'm interested in applying through the DRA pathway and I'm trying to understand what my realistic chances are. I'm interested in the John hunter, Wollongong and Gosford networks, but unsure in what order to place them. Does anyone have any advice on this? Thanks for your help!
 

dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator
Very poor chances as a cat 2.

From the HETI report last year

Regional pathway acceptances for 2020 for NSW medical graduates

Domestic students (Category 1) 195 International students (Category 4)
42

Total 237

This is because any positions a Cat 1 doesn’t fill in DRA, goes to the optimised allocation, before being given a chance by a Cat 2.

Out of the each of them, Wollongong is the least subscribed (through the DRA process) at 65% filled, then Gosford at 71% then JHH at 96%. So that order is probably your best bet, cause DRA fills first come first serve.
 

yesiam

Lurker
Very poor chances as a cat 2.

From the HETI report last year



This is because any positions a Cat 1 doesn’t fill in DRA, goes to the optimised allocation, before being given a chance by a Cat 2.

Out of the each of them, Wollongong is the least subscribed (through the DRA process) at 65% filled, then Gosford at 71% then JHH at 96%. So that order is probably your best bet, cause DRA fills first come first serve.
Thanks dotwingz! I'm a little confused why there were only acceptances for cat 1 and 4 via the DRA. Is this because those cat 4s may have put a less competitive network as their first preference than the cat2/3s applying via the DRA?
 
I’m a cat 4 who got Network 15, in round one itself.
In my opinion as a cat 2, you would get any of the hospitals you rank as your first choice under DRA.
also for DRA, only your first choice gets looked into, not the rest.
 

dotwingz

Google Enthusiast
Moderator

Have a read of this,
If positions still remain at a DRA network, following the above process i.e. after all Category 1 applicants have been offered a position, HETI makes offers to the next category of applicants as per the NSW Health priority list, who have put a DRA network as their first preference. HETI uses PTAP to randomly select who will receive a position offer.

So after the first round - when every Cat 1 applicant has got an offer through every pathway, that’s when they start allocating to the other categories. A very popular hospital like JHH won’t have any spots open after that optimised allocation, and you would be wasting your DRA by selecting it there.

The only networks open for the non cat 1 DRA applicants are undersubscribed ones, not every DRA hospital is undersubscribed.

Pick wollongong or gosford, I don’t know the relative popularity of either of them, but JHH is most certainly off limits.

EDIT: I would think that the reason why there’s no Cat 2/3s getting DRA spots is that there really is only a minor advantage in applying through the DRA for these positions, you are only getting into undersubscribed hospitals, which you were likely restricted to anyways...
 

Have a read of this,


So after the first round - when every Cat 1 applicant has got an offer through every pathway, that’s when they start allocating to the other categories. A very popular hospital like JHH won’t have any spots open after that optimised allocation, and you would be wasting your DRA by selecting it there.

The only networks open for the non cat 1 DRA applicants are undersubscribed ones, not every DRA hospital is undersubscribed.

Pick wollongong or gosford, I don’t know the relative popularity of either of them, but JHH is most certainly off limits.

EDIT: I would think that the reason why there’s no Cat 2/3s getting DRA spots is that there really is only a minor advantage in applying through the DRA for these positions, you are only getting into undersubscribed hospitals, which you were likely restricted to anyways...
I do know quite a few cat 4s who got Newcastle. So can assure its definitely not off limits, atleast for the year 2020 it wasn’t.
 

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Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Just want to clarify this:

If you are a category 2 or below, the order you preference does not change your chance at obtaining an internship (just changes your chance at specific hospital networks). However, the allocation process you choose DOES affect your chance at an internship because DRA is allocated before optimised. This is probably the gist of what dotwingz is getting at here - if you are in a lower category, your chance at using DRA to get JHH is much lower than using it to get into Gosford or Wollongong based on previous years' relative popularity.

I haven't followed how this year unfolded, but I do know that JHH is both a very popular DRA choice and also that there are offers in most networks to lower categories, JHH included, so while it is probable that category 4s got into JHH this year, that doesn't change the validity of what dotwingz is saying - your chances are indeed much lower if you select an oversubscribed network.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
I know a few International student ( Cat 4) who got into Wollongong this year.

Not sure how useful this information is, every network has Category 4's in it (even RPAH and RNSH.)
 
Not sure how useful this information is, every network has Category 4's in it (even RPAH and RNSH.)

the difference is, is a considerable number of cat 4s tend to offers in DRA hospitals in round 1/2 itself whereas the ones who got offered in RPAH AND other hospitals is through late vacancy, which is basically a lottery. Tbf the whole thing is one big lottery lol, especially if you are not a cat 1.
 

purple1

Lurker
Hi guys, I'm also a cat 2 applying for NSW internship next year. I'm interested in applying through the DRA pathway and I'm trying to understand what my realistic chances are. I'm interested in the John hunter, Wollongong and Gosford networks, but unsure in what order to place them. Does anyone have any advice on this? Thanks for your help!
I actually know about 4 cat 3s that got offered John Hunter through DRA (all declined their offers) in round 2 in 2020 and this was just at my uni. If you put any of these 3 networks as your first preference, I would think you would be quite likely to get an offer in any round as a cat 2, but as mentioned above, it really depends on popularity each year.
I’m a cat 4 who got Network 15, in round one itself.
In my opinion as a cat 2, you would get any of the hospitals you rank as your first choice under DRA.
also for DRA, only your first choice gets looked into, not the rest.

This seems to only be true for certain networks. I had Liverpool Hospital as my first preference and did not end up getting an offer through DRA or optimised pathway. However I know many cat 2s and 3s that got other offers through DRA in round 1.
 

Edam

Lurker
I actually know about 4 cat 3s that got offered John Hunter through DRA (all declined their offers) in round 2 in 2020 and this was just at my uni. If you put any of these 3 networks as your first preference, I would think you would be quite likely to get an offer in any round as a cat 2, but as mentioned above, it really depends on popularity each year.


This seems to only be true for certain networks. I had Liverpool Hospital as my first preference and did not end up getting an offer through DRA or optimised pathway. However I know many cat 2s and 3s that got other offers through DRA in round 1.
What were some of the offers of cat 2s and 3s that you knew of?
 

Gangau

Member
Very poor chances as a cat 2.

From the HETI report last year



This is because any positions a Cat 1 doesn’t fill in DRA, goes to the optimised allocation, before being given a chance by a Cat 2.

Out of the each of them, Wollongong is the least subscribed (through the DRA process) at 65% filled, then Gosford at 71% then JHH at 96%. So that order is probably your best bet, cause DRA fills first come first serve.
This is incorrect.

Quote:
HETI directly allocates category 1 applicants to their first preferenced regional DRA network when the number of category 1 applicants applying to a DRA network is less or equal to the number of positions available.
If a DRA network has fewer positions than the number of category 1 applicants who have listed it as their first preference, an algorithm is used to randomly select which applicants will receive a position offer.
Any category 1 applicants that do not receive an offer via the DRA pathway will automatically be progressed to the Optimised Allocation pathway.
If positions remain at a DRA network, following the above process i.e. after all category 1 applicants have been offered a position, HETI makes offers to the next category of applicants as per the NSW Health priority list who have put a DRA network as their first preference. These applicants will be randomly selected by an algorithm and offers will be made to these vacant positions.
Once category 2 applicants who have put a particular DRA network as their first preference have been exhausted, HETI will then offer remaining vacancies in the network to the next category of applicants as per the NSW Health Priority List. During a single offer period, applicants from different priority categories may receive offers to different DRA networks. This will depend on the numbers of category 2 to 4 applicants who have placed the DRA network as their first preference and the number of vacant positions at the time of offers.

I’m a cat 4 who got Network 15, in round one itself.
In my opinion as a cat 2, you would get any of the hospitals you rank as your first choice under DRA.
also for DRA, only your first choice gets looked into, not the rest.
May I ask what hospital you got , is Blacktwon or Bathurst
 

Gangau

Member
My friend will graduate this year from BOND and wish to take internship in NSW.

She has a particular question:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Please some one help me for my doubt.

If I put Network 4 as my first preference for DRP, and network 4 has Fairfield hospital, Liverpool hospital combined. If I want to go to Liverpool hospital as my home just 5 minutes away, how the system will give me Liverpool hospital ,not Fairfield hospital.

Like network 15 if I put it in first preference, has Blacktown Hospital/Mt Druitt Hospital and Bathurst Hospital, how I will get Blacktown/Mt Druitt Hospital, not Bathurst Hospital.

Appreciate your help

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
Would suggest your friend read in the HETI guide as to what "T3" T5" "R" and "OT" keys mean when denoting the different hospitals in a network. Essentially "the system" doesn't allocate you to a single hospital; it allocates you to a network. The network then allocates contracted employees to work within that system (ie sometimes you will be moved around as per the operational needs of the roster). The keys listed above are informative as they indicate whether a hospital is accredited to a whole year, partial year or rotational-based work for interns.
 

Gangau

Member
Would suggest your friend read in the HETI guide as to what "T3" T5" "R" and "OT" keys mean when denoting the different hospitals in a network. Essentially "the system" doesn't allocate you to a single hospital; it allocates you to a network. The network then allocates contracted employees to work within that system (ie sometimes you will be moved around as per the operational needs of the roster). The keys listed above are informative as they indicate whether a hospital is accredited to a whole year, partial year or rotational-based work for interns.
Thank you for your reply.
 

yoyoyo143

Lurker
I'm a Cat 4 (international student) interested in applying through the DRA pathway. There was a talk today and someone said "as an international student if you don't really get your 2nd and 3rd preferences". I was just wondering how true this statement is? Do you guys know anyone who got their 2nd, 3rd or 4th preference? If I were to apply Nepean (1), Bankstown (2), Wollongong (3) and I don't get Nepean, does that mean I won't have a chance in the DRA pathway anymore?
 

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