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Nurse practitioner

crickethunger

Regular Member
Becoming an NP seems the best alternative for those that don't go into medicine. From this week they can charge medicare, prescribe meds (including heart meds!), vaccinate and basically most things a GP can.

Their pay is around 90k but with overtime and other benefits it exceeds 100k easily. It's like becoming a GP but with only about 5 years education and 2-3 years training. So about 7 years to become an NP vs 12 years to become a GP. The pay is practically similar and you do the same stuff.

In the US NP's will be required to do a doctorate in nursing practise by 2015 so all NP's will be knows as Doctor! In Australia you can just do a PhD.

Best of all you can run your own practise. While legislation recommends a GP is overseeing things some clinics are planning on running it completely independent of GP's so you get autonomy.

"
While the proposed clinics would work in collaboration with existing GP practices, other clinics such as the Revive Clinics group see themselves as operating more independently, saying there is "nothing in the [rules about] collaborative arrangements saying you have to have a signed agreement with a local GP", according to The Australian."

Awesome. Nursing for me next year.

Anyone else planning on going into the field? It's just awesome. My mum's a nurse and she's planning on studying for a Masters in Nursing practise and maybe a PhD so she will become a doctor. And I will follow suit
 

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Hayden

Getting busier
Emeritus Staff
Whoaaaa okay hang on.

Becoming an NP seems the best alternative for those that don't go into medicine. From this week they can charge medicare, prescribe meds (including heart meds!), vaccinate and basically most things a GP can.
That is not most things a GP can do.

Their pay is around 90k but with overtime and other benefits it exceeds 100k easily. It's like becoming a GP but with only about 5 years education and 2-3 years training. So about 7 years to become an NP vs 12 years to become a GP. The pay is practically similar and you do the same stuff.
It does not take 12 years to become a GP, you don't do the same stuff, and the pay is not similar.

In the US NP's will be required to do a doctorate in nursing practise by 2015 so all NP's will be knows as Doctor! In Australia you can just do a PhD.
You should have a bit of a read about the difference between degrees in Australia and the US.

Also, you know that a PhD is a doctorate level degree?

Best of all you can run your own practise. While legislation recommends a GP is overseeing things some clinics are planning on running it completely independent of GP's so you get autonomy.
Which I think most clever people would avoid because of the possible legal potholes...


"
While the proposed clinics would work in collaboration with existing GP practices, other clinics such as the Revive Clinics group see themselves as operating more independently, saying there is "nothing in the [rules about] collaborative arrangements saying you have to have a signed agreement with a local GP", according to The Australian."

Awesome. Nursing for me next year.

Anyone else planning on going into the field? It's just awesome. My mum's a nurse and she's planning on studying for a Masters in Nursing practise and maybe a PhD so she will become a doctor. And I will follow suit
A PhD does not make you a doctor. It makes you a person with a PhD.
 
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crickethunger

Regular Member
The pay for experienced NP's who do overtime can sometimes be about 130k. My family GP claims to get paid 150k and he work about 55 hours a week.

I was only mentioning a few examples of what NP's can do. They can also order imaging (eg. xrays), pathology, provide immunisation and a whole host of other things.

Getting a PhD changes your title to doctor (Dr.)

If Australia follows anything the US does (which it has by introducing NP's), nurse practitioners will be allowed to work in sole practise with no GP practise.

Plus the clinic I quote earlier is planning on opening a LOT of clincs with basically no GP's to supervise.

In every way one looks at it NP seems the best alternative to medicine. Better to start next year before enter scores goes through the roof
 

Hayden

Getting busier
Emeritus Staff
The pay for experienced NP's who do overtime can sometimes be about 130k. My family GP claims to get paid 150k and he work about 55 hours a week.
You are quoting figures of a job that has hardly any basis in Australia yet. The wages would likely be very labile as the job establishes itself within the industry. If more and more people sign up, wages will likely go down. I think 130k is really, really pushing it, and I wouldn't sign up hoping for that.

I was only mentioning a few examples of what NP's can do. They can also order imaging (eg. xrays), pathology, provide immunisation and a whole host of other things.

Getting a PhD changes your title to doctor (Dr.)
I'm quite aware of that. I was pointing out the fact that getting a PhD does not make you a doctor.

If Australia follows anything the US does (which it has by introducing NP's), nurse practitioners will be allowed to work in sole practise with no GP practise.

Plus the clinic I quote earlier is planning on opening a LOT of clincs with basically no GP's to supervise.
I think what you will find, if this takes off, is NPs doing the relatively boring, bread-and-butter part of general practice, with the more complicated (interesting) aspects going to the doctors. This is my opinion.

In every way one looks at it NP seems the best alternative to medicine. Better to start next year before enter scores goes through the roof
Go for it if you want. At the very least if you decide you don't want to go towards NP you can stay as a nurse. If I was in the same position, I would wait a while to see how the industry pans out.
 

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crickethunger

Regular Member
Yeah I would like to wait it out for a bit longer but I have no time. I would ideally like to become a GP but it's just wayyy too much training. Plus there are long waits for residencies these days.

Most people consider general practise boring- I don't mind. I study optometry so know what a boring job is like.

Mum has NP friends in the US and they earn heck of a lot more than other health professionals and some even as much as the same as family practitioners. Plus they have much lower uni debt. From 2015 the US is making "doctorate in nursing practise" compulsory as well as state and national board registration. This is the same level of recognition and professionalism as the MD's and DO's in the US.

Back to Australia, if you look at seek a lot of the NP jobs offer close to 100k salaries. And the quoted figures are for standard hours, so doesn't include overtime.

If I wait for any longer- I'll get older and the entry requirements would sky rocket. Already entry req. for nursing is at historical highs (monash nursing I think is very close or at 90 TER). With this week's announcements, the marks may become out of my reach in a few year's time. You have to consider the massive numbers of med rejects (like myself) that usually go into optometry, pharmacy and dentistry. Some of those people would probably flock to nursing.

And nursing is probably the only profession that has a huge shortage in terms of qualified nurses AND students.
 

Hayden

Getting busier
Emeritus Staff
Yeah I would like to wait it out for a bit longer but I have no time. I would ideally like to become a GP but it's just wayyy too much training. Plus there are long waits for residencies these days.

Most people consider general practise boring- I don't mind. I study optometry so know what a boring job is like.

Mum has NP friends in the US and they earn heck of a lot more than other health professionals and some even as much as the same as family practitioners. Plus they have much lower uni debt. From 2015 the US is making "doctorate in nursing practise" compulsory as well as state and national board registration. This is the same level of recognition and professionalism as the MD's and DO's in the US.
No it's not, again you need to have a look at the type of degrees offered in the US. They're not regulated like they are in Australia.

Back to Australia, if you look at seek a lot of the NP jobs offer close to 100k salaries. And the quoted figures are for standard hours, so doesn't include overtime.

If I wait for any longer- I'll get older and the entry requirements would sky rocket. Already entry req. for nursing is at historical highs (monash nursing I think is very close or at 90 TER). With this week's announcements, the marks may become out of my reach in a few year's time. You have to consider the massive numbers of med rejects (like myself) that usually go into optometry, pharmacy and dentistry. Some of those people would probably flock to nursing.

And nursing is probably the only profession that has a huge shortage in terms of qualified nurses AND students.
Well if you think it's the best idea then go for it.
 

scarah

Regular Member
Becoming an NP seems the best alternative for those that don't go into medicine. From this week they can charge medicare, prescribe meds (including heart meds!), vaccinate and basically most things a GP can.

Their pay is around 90k but with overtime and other benefits it exceeds 100k easily. It's like becoming a GP but with only about 5 years education and 2-3 years training. So about 7 years to become an NP vs 12 years to become a GP. The pay is practically similar and you do the same stuff.

In the US NP's will be required to do a doctorate in nursing practise by 2015 so all NP's will be knows as Doctor! In Australia you can just do a PhD.

Best of all you can run your own practise. While legislation recommends a GP is overseeing things some clinics are planning on running it completely independent of GP's so you get autonomy.

"
While the proposed clinics would work in collaboration with existing GP practices, other clinics such as the Revive Clinics group see themselves as operating more independently, saying there is "nothing in the [rules about] collaborative arrangements saying you have to have a signed agreement with a local GP", according to The Australian."

Awesome. Nursing for me next year.

Anyone else planning on going into the field? It's just awesome. My mum's a nurse and she's planning on studying for a Masters in Nursing practise and maybe a PhD so she will become a doctor. And I will follow suit

NPs can only prescribe a VERY SMALL number of meds that are relevant to their area of speciality. So you would only be able to prescribe cardiac meds if you were a cardiac nurse practitioner, and then you wouldn't be able to prescribe other meds. Nurse practitioners are not GPs and never will be, they are nurses and pride themselves on this. This means their focus is not on diagnosis and pharmacological treatment but patient care.

Becoming a NP is VERY LONG ROAD. I know, I am a nurse and I know people who have done the NP route in Australia. Be aware the US is very very different and unless you plan to live and work there I wouldn't base your career decision on the US situation. While NP might only be 5-6 years of uni education you are required to have many years practical experience in your field. This means:

3 years undergrad
1 year graduate nurse program
1-2 years post grad study part time in specialised area
3 years or so more years experience
2 years FT masters or part time equivilant...

Then you need to draft your scope of practice, sit the board exams and viva voce etc etc...

My friend who is an NP went down this route as she didn't want to go back to square one by going to med (she was already an experienced nurse). She now realises it was more work, study and time to go down the NP route.

As for being known as Dr... any with a PhD in any discipline has the right to call themselves that. If you think having a PhD and being Dr Nurse Practitioner is any different from being Mr Nurse Practitioner then you might want to think again.

Don't get me wrong, NP is a great initiative and I fully support the role of NPs in primary health care. However do not go into nursing believing that you will become a GP with a different name.
 

Kyle

Old Man MSO
Emeritus Staff
While legislation recommends a GP is overseeing things some clinics are planning on running it completely independent of GP's so you get autonomy.
I wonder what you see as being advantageous about this autonomy?
 

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theangelofdarkness

International Member of Mystery
Emeritus Staff
It seems a little dodgy to me for someone who is not a medical doctor to describe themselves as Dr and have an individual practice in a health field. Nursing isn't medicine, and a NP is not a GP. It's somewhat misleading really.
 

iUsername

Regular Member
I volunteer part-time at Auckland City hospital and I've seen (once or twice) that patients are attended to by NP's instead of a doctor. I'm not sure though about how severe of a condition these patients are in though.
 

vitualis

Member
As per some of the others.

Nurse practitioners in Australia are not the same as nurse practitioners in the US.

The role of nurse practitioners in Australia has not been clarified in the Australian setting so expectations of income and practice style are unwise. Moreover, the road to becoming a fully independent nurse practitioner in Australia would time wise be not too different to general practice training. However, the training, experience and thus role of GPs and NPs are quite different. They are not equivalent primary care practitioners.

Lastly, doing a PhD so that you can give yourself the title of "doctor" is foolish. You study and undergo research to attain a PhD because you have a genuine interest and curiosity; to undertake an original piece of research so that you are the world expert in whatever narrow field it is that you research. I would also note that even if you have a doctorate, you would not be able to call yourself a "doctor" in a clinical setting. The law requires that people not make themselves out to be a medical doctor when they are not. As a nurse practitioner, using the title of "doctor" (though entirely true) is misleading to patients.

Regards.
 

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crickethunger

Regular Member
A bit jealous are we? lol.

I've seen an article about why young doctors these days don't want to go into general practitioners and one of the main reasons was that nurse practitioners have nearly the same scope of practise as them. They wanted a widening of their scope like being able to do obstetrics (or something along those lines).

I mean shouting out about the "massive" differences gives the impression GPs are getting a bit nervous. Australia follows everything the US does (eg. scope of optometry is expanding just like in the US and soon may include surgical rights, pharmacy's slowly expanding scope like vaccinations, graduate-style degrees like at UMelb and UWA and the list of examples go on and on), so I think it's a safe bet to say that NP's will be a good career choice.
 

frootloop

House Surgeon
Moderator
*Sighs*, nobody here is belittling NPs, they're just pointing out the facts. There is no way that NPs will ever 'take over' the role of the GP, and I sincerely doubt they were introduced to 'replace' GPs, more likely they were introduced to lessen the load of the more mundane cases that don't really take a GP to handle.
If you're really that keen on NP, then by all means, I'm sure it will be a great career. Just don't assume it's some kind of short-cut to becoming a doctor, nor that you will be able to do all the things a doctor can do, because I'm afraid that's just boarderline delusional.
End rant.
Edit: As for 'pointing out the 'massive' differences', maybe it's because there *are* massive differences. [MENTION=6583]vitualis[/MENTION] is a GP, so I'm fairly sure his knowledge about the health-care system trumps whatever anecdotal evidence you're working from.
 
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vitualis

Member
As above. Actually, general practice training is becoming increasingly popular and undoubtedly, there will be more applicants than positions when the tsunami hits. Australia does not follow everything the US does and it is simplistic to say so. Using that argument, you should train to become a physician assistant; they actually do the work of a doctor in some settings. Of course, it is highly unlikely you'll get a job as a PA in Australia.

I certainly see NPs having a role in the health system but they will not be replacing GPs. If you want to see a possible future vision, have a look at the NHS.

Basically, if you want to be a doctor, then train as one. You should study and train to be a nurse if you want to do nursing as a career.

Regards.
 

scarah

Regular Member
A bit jealous are we? lol.

I've seen an article about why young doctors these days don't want to go into general practitioners and one of the main reasons was that nurse practitioners have nearly the same scope of practise as them. They wanted a widening of their scope like being able to do obstetrics (or something along those lines).

I mean shouting out about the "massive" differences gives the impression GPs are getting a bit nervous. Australia follows everything the US does (eg. scope of optometry is expanding just like in the US and soon may include surgical rights, pharmacy's slowly expanding scope like vaccinations, graduate-style degrees like at UMelb and UWA and the list of examples go on and on), so I think it's a safe bet to say that NP's will be a good career choice.
Dude, you're being a complete idiot on here. If you aren't going listen to people who have a hell of a lot more knowledge and experience then what is the point on being on a forum? Nurse Practitioners DO NOT have the same scope of practice as GPs , far far far from it. For instance their prescribing rights are extremely limited and only cover a very small area that is their specialty, and that's another point they are specialised so if they enter into one area like say mental health or emergency, they do not have the broad basis that doctors have and therefore cannot treat anything outside their area of specialisation. You've got a GP on here and me ( a nurse and med student) both telling you how things actually run in the real world yet you keep spouting crap about Australia following the US.

A nurse practitioner in a metro ED will treat the some cases independently, these will be things like suturing simple lacerations, treating simple fractures etc etc. They may prescribe some LIMITED medications but they won't ever be running a resuscitation or managing patients in triage categories one or two... no matter how experiences they become.

Believe me, I looked into NP and have worked closely with some NPs and there are reason I choose medicine over the NP route. NPs are amazingly intelligent people and do an amazing job, but when it came down to it I wanted to be a doctor and I realised that doing NP for a substitute was going to leave me frustrated and unfulfilled. NP is not a fall back plan if you don't get into med, nursing is a profession and career in it's own right and if you are doing it because you're a wannabe doctor you'll be a very bad nurse!
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
Dude, you're being a complete idiot on here. If you aren't going listen to people who have a hell of a lot more knowledge and experience then what is the point on being on a forum? Nurse Practitioners DO NOT have the same scope of practice as GPs , far far far from it. For instance their prescribing rights are extremely limited and only cover a very small area that is their specialty, and that's another point they are specialised so if they enter into one area like say mental health or emergency, they do not have the broad basis that doctors have and therefore cannot treat anything outside their area of specialisation. You've got a GP on here and me ( a nurse and med student) both telling you how things actually run in the real world yet you keep spouting crap about Australia following the US.

A nurse practitioner in a metro ED will treat the some cases independently, these will be things like suturing simple lacerations, treating simple fractures etc etc. They may prescribe some LIMITED medications but they won't ever be running a resuscitation or managing patients in triage categories one or two... no matter how experiences they become.

Believe me, I looked into NP and have worked closely with some NPs and there are reason I choose medicine over the NP route. NPs are amazingly intelligent people and do an amazing job, but when it came down to it I wanted to be a doctor and I realised that doing NP for a substitute was going to leave me frustrated and unfulfilled. NP is not a fall back plan if you don't get into med, nursing is a profession and career in it's own right and if you are doing it because you're a wannabe doctor you'll be a very bad nurse!
+1, and ditto Vitualis too. I work with a handful of NPs (and I'm not a GP), and I would also confirm that their clinical role, training, knowledge base and scope of practice is VERY different. Not bad different; just different, period.
 

frootloop

House Surgeon
Moderator
[OFFTOPIC]If you *still* refuse to listen, after being told by two doctors and a nurse what the real story is, then be it on your own head when you (finally) realise NP=/=GP[/OFFTOPIC]
 

BigRedSky

Regular Member
All proved wrong:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/nurse-clinic-spruiks-benefits-as-doctors-grumble-20110928-1kx4x.html

The nurses in these clinics do the exact same things GP's do. Funny seeing doctors have a whinge while patients rush into the clinic- the general public trusts nurses as much as doctors.
If you read that article, and came to that conclusion stated that way, you're either trolling - or you have very little idea as to what doctors do - or you can't see through your own apparent bias.

I'd add the statement that NPs have scope to do a subset of the things a GP does, but everyone else has said that already in one form or another.
 

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