NZ expat looking into Medicine in AUS

[maleehaashfaq]

Hello,


It's been extremely difficult to find information about the admissions process, requirements etc that are specific to my situation so I thought I'd post a thread on this website.
I've just finished year 11 in India under the ISC Board of education. I don't know if it's too early to be looking into this at the moment but I like to be well informed and in advance
I'm also a New Zealand citizen which makes me a domestic student in Australia.
I'm keen on studying Medicine via the undergraduate pathway and so my questions are , what are the documents required for an application? How will my year 12 average be evaluated since I won't be writing the VCE, ACT, IB etc? Do I need to present my year 9,10 or 11 results as well? Are those results taken into consideration while my application is being processed?
And realistically speaking, what are my chances of getting into any Medical school in Australia?

 

[Rotors]

The first and most important thing to understand is that as a Kiwi in AU you get no assistance from HECS/FEE-HELP or Centrelink and will be required to self-fund your education and all living expenses. Got a spare hundred grand?

You need to ask VTAC or the University about how they treat international qualifications, they are the only people you can reasonably expect to get the correct answer from.

If I were you I'd also give thought about coming back here and doing Medicine in NZ as you get student loan and allowances etc

Good luck.

 

[maleehaashfaq]

Thanks for the info. I'll seriously be considering going back the New Zealand for Medicine.
Could you maybe give me a brief on how I should go about applying to various universities in New Zealand for a medical course?I know that you have to acheive a certain score in your first year health science course in order to get a placing for MBBS or MB ChB but apart from that I have no idea where to start. I'm extremely appreciative of all your help.
Also, a little off topic but are you a current medical student?

 

[frootloop]

Thanks for the info. I'll seriously be considering going back the New Zealand for Medicine.
Could you maybe give me a brief on how I should go about applying to various universities in New Zealand for a medical course?I know that you have to acheive a certain score in your first year health science course in order to get a placing for MBBS or MB ChB but apart from that I have no idea where to start. I'm extremely appreciative of all your help.
Also, a little off topic but are you a current medical student?

As per Rotors, Australia would be fairly expensive for you, while being an NZ citizen would give you access to NZ student loans, which would make studying more affordable (unless you/your parents have the finances to sustain you without a loan in Australia).
If you want more information about the health-science first year course at Otago, or the overlapping year one at Auckland, take a look at this subforum.
If you're still set on Australia, I'll let one of the Aussies take over.

 

[greenglacier]

New Zealand Medicine Universities - Med Students Online for info on Otago.

For info on Auckland (which is similar), look up the Auckland website and around this forum.

 

[maleehaashfaq]

I'm currently open to both options and any information that you can provide would be great.
Since I'll be completing my secondary education outside of New Zealand are there different rules that apply to me or do I take the normal route like writing the UMAT.
And since you're doing your second year at Otago, how difficult was it to get in ? Are there any qualificatons or requirements that may give you a one up on other applicants?

 

[greenglacier]

As you're an NZ citizen you need to take the normal route.

Gain entry to HSFY (for Otago) or OLY1 (for Auckland), then compete with everyone else (including sitting UMAT).

 

[miss_universe]

They unis will convert ISC into 'useable' marks for youas they would for international students, though you still will be a domestic student.

How realistic will it be to get into med in Australia? Depends on your UMAT, Year 12 marks and interview skills.

 

[frootloop]

I'm currently open to both options and any information that you can provide would be great.
Since I'll be completing my secondary education outside of New Zealand are there different rules that apply to me or do I take the normal route like writing the UMAT.
And since you're doing your second year at Otago, how difficult was it to get in ? Are there any qualificatons or requirements that may give you a one up on other applicants?

Nope, so long as your secondary school qualification is regarded as equivalent to NCEA, and you're an NZ citizen, then once you're in HSFY, your school marks will be forgotten, and you'll sit HSFY and the UMAT like everyone else.
'Difficulty' of achieving the required marks in HSFY is hard to quantify. There are approx. 1300 people in HSFY, and approx. 180 spots in second-year for people from the HSFY category (although not everyone starting HSFY wants to get into medical school). So it's hard, but by no means impossible if you're prepared to put some work in.
And no, other qualifications/experiences etc won't help your application, as the *only* things you will be ranked on when applying to second-year medicine through the HSFY category are your HSFY marks, and your UMAT grade. Nothing else.

 

[Rotors]

Here's a quick comparison

Otago

- Seven core papers (chemistry, biochemistry, 2 x human body systems, cellular biology, physics and epidemiology)
- HSFY is open only to school leavers without university study or to those with not more than 1 year of unrelated study (e.g. business)
- Optional eighth paper (general education)
- All seven core papers count towards your GPA
- Otago award percentages so a 99 is much better than a 90 (for example)
- Minimum of B grade (70%) across all papers required for Medicine
- 66/34 split between grades/UMAT for entry to Medicine
- HSFY enables you to apply to Dentistry, Medical Lab Science, Physiotherapy and Pharmacy as well as Medicine
- Division of classes after Med3 to Dunedin, Christchurch and Wellington
- Cost of living is overwhelmingly likely to be much cheaper than Auckland
- ... but it's freezing bloody cold!

If you're more academically focused and can work hard all year long then Otago is probably for you especially if you know your communication/people skills or extracurriculars are a bit weak* and want more choices (e.g. dent) to fall back on from medicine

* not to suggest in the slightest that Otago'ers lack people skills or are introvert shut in's but realistically it is better option if you can't hack an interview at this stage in their life - I was that person once too, it's just a matter of life experience really. /disclaimer

Auckland

- You enrol in either first year BSc (Biomedical Science) or first year Bachelor of Health Science
- OLY1 is open entry so you could potentially be competing against people who have previous knowledge (e.g. nurses/paramedics)
- Four core papers (chemistry, epidemiology, human body systems and cellular biology)
- Three non-core papers; for the BSc these are biochemistry, physics and general biology or for the BHSc 2x health system and 1x health psychology
- Mandatory eighth general education paper
- Three core papers in semester 1 (chem, bio and epi) and one in semester 2 (human body)
- All papers count toward grade for interview selection - minimum of B+ grade (GPA 6.0)
- Only the core papers count towards your GPA for selection
- Auckland award grades so if the A+ threshold is 90 then a 99 is no better than a 90 (for example)
- Auckland has an interview worth 25%
- Interview graded as either A (guaranteed entry), B, C or automatic rejection
- 60/15 between grades (core papers only) and UMAT for entry to Medicine plus the 25% from interview
- OLY1 enables you to apply to Optometry and Pharmacy as well and pretty much wipes out the first year of the Bachelor of Nursing too
- Mandatory 12 months outside Auckland at either Whangarei, Rotorua, Tauranga or Gisborne across Years 4-6
- 12 months is cumulative e.g. 6 months in Whangarei in Year 4 and six months in Gisborne in Year 5 = 12 months

On the other hand Auckland may be for you however I must caution you that the interview basically decides who gets in and who does not. Because OLY1 is open entry you could (and probably will) be competing against older, more mature people who have a Degree in Wonkanomics or Seussology who went out into the big wide world for ten years then decided they wanted to study Medicine. These people are overwhelmingly likely to have a huge advantage at the interview over a school leaver due to their life and work experience. Even if you're not and everybody who has an interview at Auckland alongside you is a school leaver with identical life experience if your communication skills aren't up to scratch and bomb out at the interview you're dead meat.

 

[greenglacier]

Helpful post Rotors. Just some minor corrections (nitpicking I know).

- All seven core papers count towards your GPA

Best seven of your eight papers count (if you do eight) = can knock one out.

- All papers count toward grade for interview selection - minimum of B+ grade (GPA 6.0)

Once you've achieved a 6.0 GPA across all 8 of your papers, only the core papers are used to rank you for interview selection, so they're the only ones that really count.

- Interview graded as either A (guaranteed entry), B, C or automatic rejection

Interview is graded 1-10 (we know this from MSO members who've requested their interview scores.

- Mandatory 12 months outside Auckland at either Whangarei, Rotorua, Tauranga or Gisborne across Years 4-6

Does Hamilton count as non-Auckland as well? (I'm not sure here).

On the other hand Auckland may be for you however I must caution you that the interview basically decides who gets in and who does not.

The data is actually inconsistent with this. According to the Auckland med school, the interview only changes the composition of the class by 5% (i.e. 95% of the people selected for med would still be selected if they scrapped the interview). The interview definitely has potential to make or break you, but across the whole class its impact isn't that dramatic.

 

[maleehaashfaq]

I've looked into the pros and cons of studying in both Australia and NZ and I've settled on coming back o NZ. It is after all my hometown and I'd love more than anything to come back.
This question is for anyone who currently goes to Otago or Auckland University, could I please have your first hand experience of how it's actually like attending your respective universities. What would be the tuition fees, cost of accommodation (in Otago) and a little about the course structure?
Thanks.

 

[lordgarlic]

sigh I guess I better come debunk the myths. Whilst I appreciate the advice from Rotors it would be good if the facts were right and came from someone who is currently in or in my case recently graduated from the programme

Interviews USED to be graded Auto Entry/A/B/C/Auto Fail but this was changed 2-3 years back to a 1-10 system to allow a bit more variation in interview scores

Mandatory 12 months is not correct. The correct terminology I believe is 24 weeks needs to be spent out of Auckland over the 3 year clinical programme. This INCLUDES rural GP, elective and other additional components. Also in reality the infrastructure of the medical school is such that the vast majority will NOT spend > 24 weeks out of Auckland purely because of the number of places available

Your example is not valid because whangarei is only a year 5 and O&G/Paeds year 6 site. Gisbourne is only a paeds year 6 site

I agree with GG. The interview is purely a screening tool for psychopaths/neurotics. The vast majority of people get in because of their GP since it constitutes 60% of the final assessment. The interview marks are usually very homogenous except for the psychopaths

Whilst I appreciate you trying to help our new members I would recommend that you make sure all the advice is correct. This is how myths generally get started!

 

[frootloop]

I've looked into the pros and cons of studying in both Australia and NZ and I've settled on coming back o NZ. It is after all my hometown and I'd love more than anything to come back.
This question is for anyone who currently goes to Otago or Auckland University, could I please have your first hand experience of how it's actually like attending your respective universities. What would be the tuition fees, cost of accommodation (in Otago) and a little about the course structure?
Thanks.

Otago:
Tuition fees are in the region of $12,000 per year (which I'm pretty sure is the exact same at Auckland?), but it's covered by studylink, so you don't have to front up with the money on arriving at the medical school gates, you get to pay that back later when you're earning (unless you can afford to do so beforehand). Oh, and HSFY fees are more like $7-8,000 (also covered by studylink).
Accommodation at a hall of residence (which you'll likely stay in for one, maybe two years, depending on the hall), is around $11,000, but that includes food, power, etc. When flatting, you can pretty much go as cheap (starting at ~$90/week) to as expensive (some single-roomed 'apartments' are upwards of $200/week) as you like. Personally, I'm paying $130/week, and my flat is reasonably warm, comfortable, un-durgy.
Course structure is HSFY in first year (I'll let you read up about that, it's been discussed endlessly on this forum), and then 'medical school' from years 2-6, with years 2 and 3 being more classroom-based, and learning about what is 'normal', and then years 4-6 are spent mostly in clinical arenas (mostly hospitals, GP practices, etc). Year 6 is the 'trainee intern' year, which I gather is meant to make the transition from 'medical student' to 'doctor' easier, and you get paid ($27,000 in TI year? @lordgarlic will have to confirm that. Might change by the time we get there though).
Once you hit second-year, the course structure seems a little confusing and haphazard at first (for example, in one day you may have: a lecture on the anatomy of the lower limb, another lecture on haemostasis, another lecture on meningitis, then a tutorial on caring for people with disabilities), but it all falls into place after a few weeks. They're pretty good at trying to make what they teach clinically relevant, so most of the time you can see how different bits of the course link into each other in a 'clinical' context.
Dunedin is quite a 'pretty' town, very nice uni campus, etc. It has quite the 'party atmosphere', but to be honest you can be as involved in, or removed from, that as you like. The only major downside of Otago is that it does get quite cold, which may be a bit of a shock coming from India!

 

[maleehaashfaq]

Thanks for all the info, it's the most detailed information I've got off the internet!
In terms of the degree of difficulty in getting into Auckland or Otago, which would you say is a easier?
I'm moving to a different continent just to study medicine and I would really like some if not a little bit of assurance.
Does the fact that Auckland requires you to sit an interview make it more difficult for you to get in?
I'm not concerned about the differences in the course structure as they seem to be minor.
As for the cold weather down in Otago, I'm sure it's nothing I can't handle and on the upside, I'll be more than glad to leave the sweltering heat behind

 

[frootloop]

Thanks for all the info, it's the most detailed information I've got off the internet!
In terms of the degree of difficulty in getting into Auckland or Otago, which would you say is a easier?
I'm moving to a different continent just to study medicine and I would really like some if not a little bit of assurance.
Does the fact that Auckland requires you to sit an interview make it more difficult for you to get in?
I'm not concerned about the differences in the course structure as they seem to be minor.
As for the cold weather down in Otago, I'm sure it's nothing I can't handle and on the upside, I'll be more than glad to leave the sweltering heat behind

'Easier' to get in is all relative to your strengths. And to be fair, you can't know at this stage whether your strengths lie in UMAT or interviews (and, from what lordgarlic has said, the interview sounds more like a 'screen out' than 'screen in' tool, so it's probably not something you should base your choice of uni on).
In terms of the grades you need, it's pretty much the same at both unis, and I'd say that if you can get the academic grades to get in at one uni, you'd get them at the other too.
So basically, don't pick based on which one would be 'easier' to get into, because I'm fairly sure that the selection criteria appear more different than they are, and probably the same people would get in no matter which uni they'd tried at.
Basically, pick the place you'd be ok with living in for the next 6 years (or, in Otago's case, 3 years, because you can go to Christchurch/Wellington for 4/5/6th year)

 

[Rotors]

Sorry lads I was going to put a line in there about how if what I said wasn't correct to put the right info in, I even went searching on here because I wasn't sure of one or two things and put in what I found as I didn't want the bloke to get the wrong information

This is like that time I get propofol and propranolol mixed up, that was embarrassing

 

[maleehaashfaq]

Are there any specific grade requirements in regard to getting into HSFY or OLY1 ?

 

[maleehaashfaq]

Are there any specific grade requirements in regard to getting into HSFY or OLY1 ?

 

[Kception]

Ideally if you are going for Medicine etc, you have to get better than B in Otago and B+ at Auckland. But really, you just have to do the best you can.