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PGY2+: Post-internship Questions

VeronicaHoran

Regular Member
Hi Guys:)

Could someone please provide me with some information on what happens after internship year, as I'm a bit confused. Do we stay at the same hospital we were at for internship, or could we go to any other hospital? Also, after intern year, what are we called? Resident, registrar, junior doctor, could someone please explain what these all mean.

Thanks!
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Hi Guys:)

Could someone please provide me with some information on what happens after internship year, as I'm a bit confused. Do we stay at the same hospital we were at for internship, or could we go to any other hospital? Also, after intern year, what are we called? Resident, registrar, junior doctor, could someone please explain what these all mean.

Thanks!

You'll learn this as you progress through medical school and get exposed to the hospital system, but:

re: what happens after internship year:
Some states give you 2 year contracts by default (NSW, mostly, provided you're not an international graduate on a CMI) whereas most other states will offer you a 1 year contract (pretty much every other state). This means that if you are interning in NSW, you'll automatically become an RMO at the same hospital network (not necessarily the same hospital but at least within the same network) after you finish your 1 year of internship provided you pass all the hurdles (unless you choose to terminate the contract voluntarily, for example if you had another PGY2 job lined up in another state). In all other states, you'll be applying for positions during your intern year for PGY2, and these are usually given out based on merit (CV/interview/references etc).

After intern year, your job title is dependent on what job you are doing. If you continue your work as a junior medical officer (i.e. doing more terms like you were as an intern), you'll be a resident (RMO). If you were to get onto a registrar position (either accredited or unaccredited by the relevant College) then you'd be accepting the responsibility of a registrar, supervising interns and RMOs who work under you. In many states in particularly undersubscribed specialties it's possible to get a registrar position in PGY2, but for most states PGY3 is where you would usually be applying for registrar positions. There are other positions in PGY3 ("SRMO" - senior residents) which are technically more senior than an RMO job.

The term Junior Doctor tends to refer to those in intern/resident positions but it technically can be used for any doctor who hasn't finished their fellowship (although very rarely would you refer to an advanced trainee in any specialty as a "junior doctor").


In terms of registrar and onwards:
A registrar is someone who is doing a job in an accredited or unaccredited training position in a particular specialty, and who is (still) supervised themselves by a consultant (someone who has completed their specialty training). There are several stages of being a registrar; in terms of ascending seniority there are:

unaccredited (the years of training doing this do not technically count towards the specialty but it increases your experience in the area and your competitiveness for applying for accredited positions)
provisional trainee (these years count for training toward the specialty)
advanced trainee (once you have finished your provisional training)
fellow (finished/very close to finishing your years of training with the specialty but still junior to a fully fledged consultant)

There are also levels of seniority within consultancy as well as various other career pathways in medicine which do not involve registrarship (for example, a CMO position where you never really get a fellowship but do that job for the remainder of your medical career).
 

VeronicaHoran

Regular Member
You'll learn this as you progress through medical school and get exposed to the hospital system, but:

re: what happens after internship year:
Some states give you 2 year contracts by default (NSW, mostly, provided you're not an international graduate on a CMI) whereas most other states will offer you a 1 year contract (pretty much every other state). This means that if you are interning in NSW, you'll automatically become an RMO at the same hospital network (not necessarily the same hospital but at least within the same network) after you finish your 1 year of internship provided you pass all the hurdles (unless you choose to terminate the contract voluntarily, for example if you had another PGY2 job lined up in another state). In all other states, you'll be applying for positions during your intern year for PGY2, and these are usually given out based on merit (CV/interview/references etc).

After intern year, your job title is dependent on what job you are doing. If you continue your work as a junior medical officer (i.e. doing more terms like you were as an intern), you'll be a resident (RMO). If you were to get onto a registrar position (either accredited or unaccredited by the relevant College) then you'd be accepting the responsibility of a registrar, supervising interns and RMOs who work under you. In many states in particularly undersubscribed specialties it's possible to get a registrar position in PGY2, but for most states PGY3 is where you would usually be applying for registrar positions. There are other positions in PGY3 ("SRMO" - senior residents) which are technically more senior than an RMO job.

The term Junior Doctor tends to refer to those in intern/resident positions but it technically can be used for any doctor who hasn't finished their fellowship (although very rarely would you refer to an advanced trainee in any specialty as a "junior doctor").


In terms of registrar and onwards:
A registrar is someone who is doing a job in an accredited or unaccredited training position in a particular specialty, and who is (still) supervised themselves by a consultant (someone who has completed their specialty training). There are several stages of being a registrar; in terms of ascending seniority there are:

unaccredited (the years of training doing this do not technically count towards the specialty but it increases your experience in the area and your competitiveness for applying for accredited positions)
provisional trainee (these years count for training toward the specialty)
advanced trainee (once you have finished your provisional training)
fellow (finished/very close to finishing your years of training with the specialty but still junior to a fully fledged consultant)

There are also levels of seniority within consultancy as well as various other career pathways in medicine which do not involve registrarship (for example, a CMO position where you never really get a fellowship but do that job for the remainder of your medical career).


Thank you so much! Also, another question. I want to move interstate to Victoria for internship, but know that this is really hard to do, so do you think it would still be possible to move the following year as a PGY2? Also, what does HMO stand for/mean? Is there a priority system when it comes to PGY positions, like there is for intern positions (eg, interstate is last priority)?
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
It is possible to move to Victoria at any stage after graduating, depending of course on the relative supply and demand of the position you are applying for (and your own relative merit). Obviously, the most popular hospital networks will also be the ones that are the hardest to get into because of the relative demand for it. For example, if you wanted to go to the Royal Melbourne as an RMO in PGY2, you'll likely find that the vast proportion of the places will have been given out to those people who already did their internship there (or at other high profile hospital networks in Victoria e.g. the Alfred/Austin/St Vincent's etc). If you're some interstate graduate with no healthcare experience in Victoria, then your relative merit (i.e. your CV/interview ability) will have to be that much better to beat the competition applying there. Of course the hospital network will tend to choose the graduates best suited for its positions and that often means that they will just select people who have already worked there and understand how their particular hospital works, and who already has lots of connections there.

There are of course more relatively undersubscribed places in Victoria that you can apply for and of course more relatively undersubscribed specialty pathways that you can apply for which would obviously increase your chances. For example, you'd be more likely to be able to get a position as an interstater if you were applying for (for example) a psychiatry registrar position as compared to an anaesthetics training position. Furthermore, if you were applying to the more rural areas where fewer medical staff are available, then certainly you'd have a better shot at that position.

In terms of priority system: there is a clearly defined system in place for internships in Victoria (and actually in pretty much all other states in Australia as well) - however from PGY 2 onwards the system is largely based on CV/references/interview like pretty much every other professional job out there.

In most states (but NOT Victoria) the priority for internship goes like this:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. Domestic interstate graduates
3. International in-state graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

In Victoria there is a slight change which makes it very hard for interstate graduates to get a position in Victoria for internship:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. International in-state graduates
3. Domestic interstate graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

tl;dr: supply and demand and your individual merit in selection criteria tend very much to dictate your chances everywhere you go and if you are applying from somewhere far from the place you are applying to you're likely at a disadvantage compared to local applicants.
 
Last edited:

VeronicaHoran

Regular Member
It is possible to move to Victoria at any stage after graduating, depending of course on the relative supply and demand of the position you are applying for (and your own relative merit). Obviously, the most popular hospital networks will also be the ones that are the hardest to get into because of the relative demand for it. For example, if you wanted to go to the Royal Melbourne as an RMO in PGY2, you'll likely find that the vast proportion of the places will have been given out to those people who already did their internship there (or at other high profile hospital networks in Victoria e.g. the Alfred/Austin/St Vincent's etc). If you're some interstate graduate with no healthcare experience in Victoria, then your relative merit (i.e. your CV/interview ability) will have to be that much better to beat the competition applying there. Of course the hospital network will tend to choose the graduates best suited for its positions and that often means that they will just select people who have already worked there and understand how their particular hospital works, and who already has lots of connections there.

There are of course more relatively undersubscribed places in Victoria that you can apply for and of course more relatively undersubscribed specialty pathways that you can apply for which would obviously increase your chances. For example, you'd be more likely to be able to get a position as an interstater if you were applying for (for example) a psychiatry registrar position as compared to an anaesthetics training position. Furthermore, if you were applying to the more rural areas where fewer medical staff are available, then certainly you'd have a better shot at that position.

In terms of priority system: there is a clearly defined system in place for internships in Victoria (and actually in pretty much all other states in Australia as well) - however from PGY 2 onwards the system is largely based on CV/references/interview like pretty much every other professional job out there.

In most states (but NOT Victoria) the priority for internship goes like this:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. Domestic interstate graduates
3. International in-state graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

In Victoria there is a slight change which makes it very hard for interstate graduates to get a position in Victoria for internship:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. International in-state graduates
3. Domestic interstate graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

tl;dr: supply and demand and your individual merit in selection criteria tend very much to dictate your chances everywhere you go and if you are applying from somewhere far from the place you are applying to you're likely at a disadvantage compared to local applicants.

Ok thanks for all the info! This is very helpful :)
 

VeronicaHoran

Regular Member
It is possible to move to Victoria at any stage after graduating, depending of course on the relative supply and demand of the position you are applying for (and your own relative merit). Obviously, the most popular hospital networks will also be the ones that are the hardest to get into because of the relative demand for it. For example, if you wanted to go to the Royal Melbourne as an RMO in PGY2, you'll likely find that the vast proportion of the places will have been given out to those people who already did their internship there (or at other high profile hospital networks in Victoria e.g. the Alfred/Austin/St Vincent's etc). If you're some interstate graduate with no healthcare experience in Victoria, then your relative merit (i.e. your CV/interview ability) will have to be that much better to beat the competition applying there. Of course the hospital network will tend to choose the graduates best suited for its positions and that often means that they will just select people who have already worked there and understand how their particular hospital works, and who already has lots of connections there.

There are of course more relatively undersubscribed places in Victoria that you can apply for and of course more relatively undersubscribed specialty pathways that you can apply for which would obviously increase your chances. For example, you'd be more likely to be able to get a position as an interstater if you were applying for (for example) a psychiatry registrar position as compared to an anaesthetics training position. Furthermore, if you were applying to the more rural areas where fewer medical staff are available, then certainly you'd have a better shot at that position.

In terms of priority system: there is a clearly defined system in place for internships in Victoria (and actually in pretty much all other states in Australia as well) - however from PGY 2 onwards the system is largely based on CV/references/interview like pretty much every other professional job out there.

In most states (but NOT Victoria) the priority for internship goes like this:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. Domestic interstate graduates
3. International in-state graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

In Victoria there is a slight change which makes it very hard for interstate graduates to get a position in Victoria for internship:
1. Domestic in-state graduates
2. International in-state graduates
3. Domestic interstate graduates
4. International interstate graduates
5. People who graduated outside Australia or NZ

tl;dr: supply and demand and your individual merit in selection criteria tend very much to dictate your chances everywhere you go and if you are applying from somewhere far from the place you are applying to you're likely at a disadvantage compared to local applicants.

Also, another question. Seeing as I have to have a very impressive CV to move to Victoria, what sort of things would you recommend having on there, and how and where should I go about trying to find leadership opportunities? Are are clinical references just people we have worked with during our clinical years? And how should we go about finding research opportunities and getting published? Any advice would be much appreciated!
 

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