Possibility of Interstate Internship/Residency

[anonymeese]

Hi!
So I'm from Sydney and I've received an offer for provisional med. at UQ in Brisbane. I was wondering if I finished my MD at UQ (in 7 yrs or end of 2024), what would be the chances of an internship in NSW? I'm a bonded student too and I've heard it's possible to do part of my RoS in my internship year? so since i'll be applying for rural hospitals in NSW, will that improve my chances if I put that down for my 1st pref? I'd just really like to come back to NSW and be closer to my family.

 

[Mana]

Hi!
So I'm from Sydney and I've received an offer for provisional med. at UQ in Brisbane. I was wondering if I finished my MD at UQ (in 7 yrs or end of 2024), what would be the chances of an internship in NSW? I'm a bonded student too and I've heard it's possible to do part of my RoS in my internship year? so since i'll be applying for rural hospitals in NSW, will that improve my chances if I put that down for my 1st pref? I'd just really like to come back to NSW and be closer to my family.

If the situation doesn't change in 7 years time, then if you are applying rural (RPR) in NSW you should get an internship in NSW as a category 2. If you are from a particular rural region you might be able to use this for your RPR interview.

For more info about this you can check the HETI internship website at internship-nsw - HETI

That said, you aren't guaranteed any particular rural site if you apply through RPR, so be prepared to be sent somewhere further than what you might have wanted.

 

[anonymeese]

Thank you.
Will it be a 2 year contract at that hospital?

 

[hpfanfiction]

Thank you.
Will it be a 2 year contract at that hospital?

Yes , NSW offer 2 year contracts (covering intern year and PGY2)
Some of these posts are about internship in NSW and may be of interest to you
Quick Questions Thread
All the best

 

[anonymeese]

Thank you so much!

 

[chinaski]

Yes , NSW offer 2 year contracts (covering intern year and PGY2)

Worth qualifying this statement by saying that in 2018, NSW offers 2 year contracts. No guarantee they will do so in 2025.

 

[B2]

Does anyone know the situation for internship positions in south Australia ? Finished highschool in SA but studying medicine in Queensland. Would it be possible to go back ?

If not, how does the process work to go back for residency / specialty training ?

Thank you !

 

[pi]

The situation is grim in South Australia, expect to not be an intern there.

 

[hpfanfiction]

Does anyone know the situation for internship positions in south Australia ? Finished highschool in SA but studying medicine in Queensland. Would it be possible to go back ?

If not, how does the process work to go back for residency / specialty training ?

Thank you !

Intern Recruitment - South Australia: Department of Health
In SA you’d currently be a Category 2.2 (or 2.1 if you’re Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander)

https://www.samet.org.au/wp-content...016-Allocation-of-Interns-and-PGY2s-in-SA.pdf
These are 2016-7 figures (So a year out of date), but based on the report ,
“For the 2017 South Australian intern year there were 251 intern positions available. A total of 364 offers were made for intern positions in South Australia across Commonwealth supported and full fee paying medical graduates from South Australian universities, interstate Commonwealth supported graduates and international medical graduates from South Australian universities. A total of 215 Commonwealth supported graduates from South Australian universities accepted their offers, 25 Commonwealth supported graduates from interstate universities accepted their offers and 11 international graduates from South Australian universities accepted their offers of internship in SA. No full fee paying graduates from South Australian universities accepted their offer. Further data is available for review in Appendix C.
Currently South Australia has 7.5% of all Australian intern positions, in comparison to having only 7.1%1 of the Australian population”

So you do have a chance , but the situation is certainly grim

The above document does touch on PGY2+ applications but the feasibility of returning at that stage would depend on your contract in Queensland (not sure if Queensland offers 1 or 2 year comtracts) and your speciality of choice (if returning in PGY3+)

All the best

 

[lilzab]

Hello, I know there is info regarding this somewhere on this site but I wasn't exactly sure where to find it, so apologies in advance!! (You can just refer me to the relevant thread if that's easier!!)

As a Victorian who is considering med interstate but would ideally like to return to their home state as soon as possible, how difficult is it to return and work/complete residency after uni? And why? (I would likely be going from QLD) My understanding is its not easy, but if anyone could offer any more info that would be very helpful.

 

[Benjamin]

As a Victorian who is considering med interstate but would ideally like to return to their home state as soon as possible, how difficult is it to return and work/complete residency after uni? And why? (I would likely be going from QLD) My understanding is its not easy, but if anyone could offer any more info that would be very helpful.

Could I please have a response to this as well, since I'm considering undergraduate medicine interstate (if I get in interstate and fail to get into Curtin, my home state is WA. )

This is a bit of a hard question to answer as it depends on a lot of different things which aren't exactly predictable. The best I can do (in short) is to give you a run-down of the current process as of 2018-19 which is very likely to change in the coming years.

At the moment you are only guaranteed an internship as a domestic student in the state you have studied in - i.e. if you study Med in QLD then you are guaranteed a QLD but not Victorian internship. The majority of other states have further ranking / take into consideration people who went to high school in a different state, often these people will be considered category 2 applicants but this is highly variable & is very likely to shift further in the future. Most of the States will take into account a combination of your C.V., GPA, references +/- interview if you are not applying as a guaranteed intern (i.e interstate applicant) much like any other job & future applications in your medical career.

Once you are finished with internship (e.g. PGY2) you are no longer bound to a particular state, you could very well move to NSW/VIC/WA/wherever to continue working provided you can get a job. The latter part is where difficulties lie - in general, highly coveted jobs are given to people who have made themselves known to a service/hospital/been around the block for a few years ... it's a bit nepotistic but it's the reality. This means that if you study in QLD & do internship in QLD it's harder for you to get that awesome Dermatology job at the Royal Melbourne / get directly onto surgical training pathways etc. In saying that, it doesn't mean that it's impossible to return to your home state. The majority of friends I have from medical school who wanted to return to their home state have done so successfully either in their intern or in subsequent residency years. Moving as a registrar is also possible but tends to be a bit more difficult. Basically you need to be able to convince someone on the other side of the country that you are better than the person they have seen working / interacted with / taken referrrals from around the hospital for the last year. This is not always easy.

What is fairly likely over the coming years (happens regularly now) is that as junior doctors we will continue to lose control over exactly where we work in favour of remaining in a field we like/are training in. It is fairly frequent that medical/surgical registrars are sent across the state for extended periods of time / very frequent that people move every 1-2 years within a state for jobs & sometimes even move across the country. There is little stopping you from moving back into your home state after finishing your internship provided you are willing to take any job offered & start over again with networking. Some states are harder than others (NSW has 2 year contracts for interns, thus is difficult to move into in PGY2 as there are relatively few jobs) but this is likely to change significantly in the future and really isn't anything to bank on.

 

[HelloMango]

This is a bit of a hard question to answer as it depends on a lot of different things which aren't exactly predictable. The best I can do (in short) is to give you a run-down of the current process as of 2018-19 which is very likely to change in the coming years.

At the moment you are only guaranteed an internship as a domestic student in the state you have studied in - i.e. if you study Med in QLD then you are guaranteed a QLD but not Victorian internship. The majority of other states have further ranking / take into consideration people who went to high school in a different state, often these people will be considered category 2 applicants but this is highly variable & is very likely to shift further in the future. Most of the States will take into account a combination of your C.V., GPA, references +/- interview if you are not applying as a guaranteed intern (i.e interstate applicant) much like any other job & future applications in your medical career.

Once you are finished with internship (e.g. PGY2) you are no longer bound to a particular state, you could very well move to NSW/VIC/WA/wherever to continue working provided you can get a job. The latter part is where difficulties lie - in general, highly coveted jobs are given to people who have made themselves known to a service/hospital/been around the block for a few years ... it's a bit nepotistic but it's the reality. This means that if you study in QLD & do internship in QLD it's harder for you to get that awesome Dermatology job at the Royal Melbourne / get directly onto surgical training pathways etc. In saying that, it doesn't mean that it's impossible to return to your home state. The majority of friends I have from medical school who wanted to return to their home state have done so successfully either in their intern or in subsequent residency years. Moving as a registrar is also possible but tends to be a bit more difficult. Basically you need to be able to convince someone on the other side of the country that you are better than the person they have seen working / interacted with / taken referrrals from around the hospital for the last year. This is not always easy.

What is fairly likely over the coming years (happens regularly now) is that as junior doctors we will continue to lose control over exactly where we work in favour of remaining in a field we like/are training in. It is fairly frequent that medical/surgical registrars are sent across the state for extended periods of time / very frequent that people move every 1-2 years within a state for jobs & sometimes even move across the country. There is little stopping you from moving back into your home state after finishing your internship provided you are willing to take any job offered & start over again with networking. Some states are harder than others (NSW has 2 year contracts for interns, thus is difficult to move into in PGY2 as there are relatively few jobs) but this is likely to change significantly in the future and really isn't anything to bank on.

Hi, do you know if Flinders graduates have trouble getting internships? Apparently, South Australia was the first state seeing even domestic students not securing internships. Do you know if this is still the case or likely to be when I graduate if I begin this year?
How likely is it to be able to get internships in a different state, like WA my home, or even in NZ (I have citizenship thereand actually completed high school there)
Please refer me to reliable sources for info on internships after graduating medicine, thanks!

 

[A1]

Hi, do you know if Flinders graduates have trouble getting internships? Apparently, South Australia was the first state seeing even domestic students not securing internships. Do you know if this is still the case or likely to be when I graduate if I begin this year?
How likely is it to be able to get internships in a different state, like WA my home, or even in NZ (I have citizenship thereand actually completed high school there)
Please refer me to reliable sources for info on internships after graduating medicine, thanks!

Last year 2017-18 SA came close to not offering enough internships to all its CSP/BMP grads, however they did offer enough in the end. Even if they had not the SA gov would have arranged for other states to help take them in, like Tasmania requested Victoria a few years ago. IOW there was no risk of any un-interned CSP grads although some would have had to move interstate against their wish.

You should be okay as a future Flinders grad since many don't realise it was a once-off occurrence. From Med Deans data the numbers of Adelaide+Flinders grads were
(2015) 270 - (2016) 268 - (2017) 312 - (2018) 270 - (2019 projected) 261 - (2020 projected) 232

for some reason 2017 saw a spike of 40+ grads more than typical thus the internship struggle for that year. The SA gov saw it coming, forced the schools to cut their intakes from 3-4 years ago, SA grads will drop significantly by 2020.

I think it'll be difficult for you to return to WA since not being a WA Y12 student you will be 4th priority. By then with 1st priority Curtin grads thrown in there won't be many intern places left for 4th priority. See the second half of this link for the typical internship priorities (don't get caught up in the top half which talks about shortage of internships for int'l students)
> National Internship Crisis | Australian Medical Students’ Association

 

[chinaski]

Last year 2017-18 Even if they had not the SA gov would have arranged for other states to help take them in, like Tasmania requested Victoria a few years ago.

This is a bit of a loose assertion. Tasmania and Victoria have established training and hospital cross-network ties, which explains their cooperation. You can't assume the same arrangements could be rustled up by SA if they hit a similar crisis - no analogous cross-border arrangements exist. At the end of the day, "arranging other states" to take on surplus graduates means "asking other state governments to fund intern salaries in order to save the other state's political arse".

 

[A1]

This is a bit of a loose assertion. Tasmania and Victoria have established training and hospital cross-network ties, which explains their cooperation. You can't assume the same arrangements could be rustled up by SA if they hit a similar crisis - no analogous cross-border arrangements exist. At the end of the day, "arranging other states" to take on surplus graduates means "asking other state governments to fund intern salaries in order to save the other state's political arse".

Whether that was a loose assertion the main point remains valid though. As has been mentioned a few times last year saw almost 400 intern spots Australia-wide offered to int'l grads. In most states, particularly the two large states NSW & QLD, domestic interstate grads are given higher priority than their own int'l grads, which means the "surplus" 40 SA grads would have been able to fit themselves in somewhere among these 400 spots just by applying; even if the SA gov were unable to make any arrangement for them.

 

[chinaski]

No, your point isn't valid. You can't assert one state government will certainly step in and help out another un-affiliated state government in the case of graduate surplus, which is what you suggested would happen. You simply don't have any precedent or assurance this would occur. What you're now suggesting is that surplus grads would simply bleed across state lines and apply for jobs elsewhere by their own initiative, which is entirely different to your earlier imagining that governments would actively work together to re-home graduates.

 

[A1]

No, your point isn't valid.

The main point was, in that year, no CSP grads from SA would have been unable to get an internship even if the SA gov hadn't offered them one.

 

[chinaski]

The main point was, in that year, no CSP grads from SA would have been unable to get an internship even if the SA gov hadn't offered them one.

Perhaps, but that's not how you expressed it.

 

[justwondering]

The main point was, in that year, no CSP grads from SA would have been unable to get an internship even if the SA gov hadn't offered them one.

Agree with A1! Your sharings are very much appreciated.
Thanks A1!

A1's opinion is based on historical factual events.
Nonetheless, we can't predict that this will continue to happen in the future.
Hence, Chinaski's concerns are also noted too.

Most of us believe All domestic students CSP, BMP etc... in all Australian universities will find internships in Australia , whether in the States where they study or in other States.

After internship, that is where the real challenge lies! (for domestic students)

International Medical Students are having it much much tougher than domestic students for internship placements.

Yet, we are seeing quite a number of outstanding international students getting internships in top Melbourne Hospital such as Alfred, RMH and Austin..... why? Because of their very strong grades, shining CV, active in volunteerism, skills at great networking, interviews, diligence, solid work ethics, show respect for seniors .... lots of hard work!

As for mediocre International Medical students.... Internships placement may continue to be challenging. Many have gone back to home country for internship if they can't find one in rural or regional Australia....this would be a lost to Australia

 

[Mana]

Yet, we are seeing quite a number of outstanding international students getting internships in top Melbourne Hospital such as Alfred, RMH and Austin..... why? Because of their very strong grades, shining CV, active in volunteerism, skills at great networking, interviews, diligence, solid work ethics, show respect for seniors .... lots of hard work!

As for mediocre International Medical students.... Internships placement may continue to be challenging. Many have gone back to home country for internship if they can't find one in rural or regional Australia....this would be a lost to Australia

Well, part of this also is the fact that the Victorian international grads are prioritised ahead of interstate, domestic graduates. If the system in Victoria was changed to be in line with the remainder of Australia in terms of priority groups, you would find that there would be hardly any international students at the Alfred/RMH/Austin.