Should I Continue Studying Medicine?

[Kiwiology]

ya u can, u can be a public health specialist or work for the ministry of health or in private consultancy, there's literally an entire chunk of the ministry of health which is just doctors also ashley bloomfield is a doctor as are a lot of the CEs of DHBs

Yeah, this is true. You can do the non-clinical stuff or become a PubH specialist. But I would still say there is less scope to do "non meddy" things than with say, an LLB, or such.

Also Ashley Bloomfield

 

[Verdigris]

we stan dr ashley

 

[chinaski]

Yeah, this is true. You can do the non-clinical stuff or become a PubH specialist. But I would still say there is less scope to do "non meddy" things than with say, an LLB, or such.

Also Ashley Bloomfield

I would disagree RE scope - med degrees are sought-after in many industries. Non-clinical medical work is inevitably going to have some kind of "medical" flavour, but there are a huge range of applications outside of clinical medicine open to new medical graduates and doctors alike. I know some doctors who provide "expert" input as script writers of TV series, for instance - it's not all about being tethered to patients and hospitals etc. Similarly, your left-of-centre applications of a law degree are always going to have a "law" flavour, and can carry you in different directions. It's not a competition - I would say both professional degrees have similar potential for versatility (which is partly reliant on the holder of said degree having some sense of ingenuity if they want to take their degree down a path less travelled).

 

[rv123]

Hi!

So as the title suggests, I'm reconsidering whether I should continue studying medicine or go back to studying commerce.

About Me

• I'm currently in my first year of med
• I studied commerce (aimed for a career in investment banking) for a year, took a year off, then started med
  • changed degrees because
    • I didn't like the rat race in commerce (which I now realise is similar to the rat race when applying to become a specialist)
    • Wanted to have a positive impact on society (which I can still have in a commerce-oriented job if I choose the right one)
• Found both med & commerce content very interesting!
• I enjoy high stakes, high pressure environments which keep me on my toes
• I can't see myself working the same job for more than 5 years

I've started to reconsider because

• I've come to realise that the pathway to becoming a surgeon is incredibly long (2035 is everything goes right)
• My career opportunities are limited and less diverse if I continue studying med

I'd love to get some advice and opinions so I have a more wholistic understanding before I make any decisions.

Much appreciated!

 

[chinaski]

If you can't see yourself working the same job for more than 5 years, what would be your long-term plan with medicine? Work for five years as a doctor, then what? And five years after that? Then what?

What makes you think that the "rat race" ends once you become a specialist?

 

[rv123]

If you can't see yourself working the same job for more than 5 years, what would be your long-term plan with medicine? Work for five years as a doctor, then what? And five years after that? Then what?

That’s what I’m not sure about. I can’t see myself doing anything apart from surgery as a doctor, but also can’t see myself doing the same job for an extended period of time. This is something that’s only become clear to me recently.

Unless I’m mistaken, I don’t think medicine offers the scope to work in a variety of different roles.

What makes you think that the "rat race" ends once you become a specialist?

From my understanding, to become a specialist, you would need to complete research papers, grind and do a lot of networking to be accepted into the program.

Does this also continue once you become a specialist?

 

[A1]

From my understanding, to become a specialist, you would need to complete research papers, grind and do a lot of networking to be accepted into the program.

Only because it's stuck in you that you must become a surgeon nothing else. There are a few undersubscribed specialties you can practically walk into.

Or you can become a Rural Generalist, that does involve some surgery and also a wide variety of work to keep you interested, not to mention all these "exotic" locations, and it pays like $400K+ a year.

 

[rv123]

Only because it's stuck in you that you must become a surgeon nothing else. There are a few undersubscribed specialties you can practically walk into.

Or you can become a Rural Generalist, that does involve some surgery and also a wide variety of work to keep you interested, not to mention all these "exotic" locations, and it pays like $400K+ a year.

Thanks! At this stage, I think surgery is the path that I’d want to take. It incorporates all the elements that I’d enjoy. I can’t really see myself doing primary or secondary care.

However, I do recognise that over time I may develop some sort of interest towards other specialties - but it’s not necessarily s a gamble I want to take.

If I’m having these thoughts now, surely I’m better off acting sooner than later.

 

[chinaski]

That’s what I’m not sure about. I can’t see myself doing anything apart from surgery as a doctor, but also can’t see myself doing the same job for an extended period of time. This is something that’s only become clear to me recently.

Unless I’m mistaken, I don’t think medicine offers the scope to work in a variety of different roles.

There is capacity to pursue non-clinical roles with medical qualifications, but unless you are interested in those kinds of roles, it's somewhat of a moot point. That's why I asked what kinds of things you would want to do after working in one role after five years. If your idea is that you'd want to be out of the medical field altogether after five years of practice (and bearing in mind it will generally take longer than that to specialise in anything), then I'd say it's a poor investment of your time to do a medical degree.

From my understanding, to become a specialist, you would need to complete research papers, grind and do a lot of networking to be accepted into the program.

Does this also continue once you become a specialist?

You don't get to put your feet up and coast, if that's what you think. Practice as a specialist involves ongoing learning and renewal of knowledge, and advancement of your career trajectory within a very competitive field. It's not a relaxing 9-5 scenario wherein you don't have to network, further your academic credentials, take on extra roles etc. Basically if you stop swimming, you drown.

 

[rv123]

There is capacity to pursue non-clinical roles with medical qualifications, but unless you are interested in those kinds of roles, it's somewhat of a moot point. That's why I asked what kinds of things you would want to do after working in one role after five years. If your idea is that you'd want to be out of the medical field altogether after five years of practice (and bearing in mind it will generally take longer than that to specialise in anything), then I'd say it's a poor investment of your time to do a medical degree.

That's interesting! What sort of roles did you have in mind? What other jobs/roles would I be able to work in after working as a surgeon for a few years?

You don't get to put your feet up and coast, if that's what you think. Practice as a specialist involves ongoing learning and renewal of knowledge, and advancement of your career trajectory within a very competitive field. It's not a relaxing 9-5 scenario wherein you don't have to network, further your academic credentials, take on extra roles etc. Basically if you stop swimming, you drown.

For sure! I didn't think that'd I'd be able to coast, but I thought most, if not all, of my time would be spent performing surgery or renewing my knowledge.

 

[chinaski]

That's interesting! What sort of roles did you have in mind? What other jobs/roles would I be able to work in after working as a surgeon for a few years?

It's not my job to do your homework for you. Google is your friend here - here's a start: Unhappy in Medicine? Alternative Career Paths for Doctors - Insight Medical Careers

For sure! I didn't think that'd I'd be able to coast, but I thought most, if not all, of my time would be spent performing surgery or renewing my knowledge.

Yeah, nah. You're in a pond with a lot of other very big fish. There's internal competition, day-to-day drudgery and (quite nasty) politics in medicine - the same as any other industry. Hence, I don't really know why you thought the "rat race" doesn't exist in medicine at specialist level. Being a surgeon isn't just about performing surgeries and going to conferences!

 

[dotwingz]

Being a surgeon isn't just about performing surgeries and going to conferences!

Theres also alot of hookers and expensive cars involved

 

[chinaski]

Don't forget the cocaine.

 

[dotwingz]

I actually had cocaine written initially but I swapped it out for expensive cars! ahha

 

[rv123]

It's not my job to do your homework for you. Google is your friend here - here's a start: Unhappy in Medicine? Alternative Career Paths for Doctors - Insight Medical Careers

Yeah, nah. You're in a pond with a lot of other very big fish. There's internal competition, day-to-day drudgery and (quite nasty) politics in medicine - the same as any other industry. Hence, I don't really know why you thought the "rat race" doesn't exist in medicine at specialist level. Being a surgeon isn't just about performing surgeries and going to conferences!

Thanks for the pointer - I've been spending some time looking into other potential career paths.

While I've got you here - I was wondering if you knew anything about the likelihood of being accepted into a surgical training (specifically general surgery) program. Is it common to see doctors try for many years before being accepted? Also, is it a common expectation to complete a PhD or further tertiary education to be accepted into a program?

 

[emmevideos]

agree with what others have suggested, probably just study something you're interested in
otherwise it's a lot of time invested in something you don't really like.
Whilst I don't think you're screwed if you get to the end of med and change career, you might as well just do it now and save yourself several years of mindless memorisation

 

[chinaski]

Thanks for the pointer - I've been spending some time looking into other potential career paths.

While I've got you here - I was wondering if you knew anything about the likelihood of being accepted into a surgical training (specifically general surgery) program. Is it common to see doctors try for many years before being accepted? Also, is it a common expectation to complete a PhD or further tertiary education to be accepted into a program?

I'm not a surgeon, but generally speaking it's a highly competitive field. It seems more common than not to have several attempts at getting onto the programme before success - years spent in an unaccredited position whilst building one's credentials and reputation is incredibly common. PhDs/higher degrees are probably not as prevalent as they are in the physician world, but not unknown/uncommon either. Many trainees will also complete extra fellowships in addition to the mandated training time. I don't think it's realistic to assume you'd get onto a programme on your first attempt, or expect to complete training in the minimum allotted time once you were on a programme.

 

[MT_]

Incoming rant - would greatly appreciate anyone’s advice and insight

I’m a second-year medical student + the past year or so has really made me question whether medicine is for me. I derive almost no joy from the study or from the hospital placements despite previously loving going on placement before medical school and wanting to get in for so long. During this year, I spent majority of the time stressing, binge eating, having breakdowns and suicidal thoughts, mentally beating myself up and wanting to quit medicine. At some point during one of the terms, I couldn’t even stand showing up to classes and half-listening (I had to excuse myself in the middle of a tutorial once, just could not cope). During that term, I was so close to just throwing in the towel but managed to hold on only because of the encouragement of some of my lecturers, family/friends. People say that it’s normal to have periods of being extremely unmotivated but I feel that the things that have been happening to me I just can’t put up with anymore.

I’ve not been well for the last few years and I really need to work on my health but I really can’t with the torment of medical school (of which, 75% if not more I’m sure is completely self-inflicted).

People ask me what else I would do instead of medicine but honestly, I have not a clue - because I’ve wanted to do medicine for so long I’ve never even given a Plan B more than a moment’s thought. I’ve never given any other career option a fair go.

I’ve not taken leave for quite a few reasons which I’ll try to explain:

1. “Medical school isn’t that bad and if I only tried harder at having a balanced life, it wouldn’t be so bad.” But at the same time, I find medical school to be so draining that I don’t have the energy to properly relax or do stuff that I used to enjoy.
2. Because of the way my program is structured, I can’t just take one year off - I have to take two because some courses are only offered every other year.
   1. Before medical school started, I had recognised that I was really not in a great mental shape but didn’t end up taking the year off because of COVID/not being able to travel/might as well study if I’m to be in lockdown
   2. Insignificant but also have a bit of fear of missing out (have made some good friends in my grade in med school and would be a bit sad to see our paths diverge)
3. Despite all of this, still having good grades
   1. When I was trying to get into medical school, was already struggling mentally but because of my stubbornness, some hard work and luck managed to get in
4. Wanting to do medicine for so long + become, very unhealthily so I might add, my ‘life calling’ so am finding it hard to let go
5. If I decide to come back, what if it turns out just as bad as it was before and the leave was just a complete waste
6. Maybe medicine is right for me but I’m just in a bit of a rut
   1. Historically, I’ve been known to work really hard at one thing, burn out/lose interest, quit and go do something else. But that could be just of coping mechanism and a way to constantly achieve and avoid failure so it’s a bit hard to say.
   2. I had really really loved my time at the hospital when I went on placement a few years ago though and there are some moments during medical school that I thoroughly enjoyed but I think the bad moments have just overshadowed them
7. The areas that I am interested in apart from medicine, I don’t think are viable options to sustain myself financially with - love the arts e.g. writing but would only want to do it if I was able to publish what I wanted to.
   1. One of my tutors, upon hearing this, said that these interests actually go well with medicine - good for empathy (was disappointed - was really hoping she’d tell me to drop out and go do arts)

Reasons I’d like to take leave

1. Work on my health and get better
2. Grow a personality that isn’t so dependent on medicine, achievements etc.

If I were to take leave I think I’d move out of home, get more independence, find a part-time job in perhaps something completely unrelated to medicine/education/studying for experience, travel, have a break from all the stress + pursue some of my hobbies.*

*Though honestly, I think I could do a good portion of these things whilst still doing medical school?

TLDR: had a terrible time during medical school this year, don’t know if I should take leave or not.

 

[SLP]

I'm really sorry for what you're going through right now and it's wonderful you have the confidence to speak out about it, especially on a great forum like MSO, where there's hundreds of people who are willing to support you throughout this time. I'm not currently a medical student (hoping to become one next year), but hopefully the general advice I provide can be of some assistance to you.

I think the best thing would be to weigh up the pros and cons of taking leave, which should hopefully make it clearer with regards to your decision.

Pros:

• Can improve mental and physical health (travelling, hobbies, or just spending more time with family and friends; I can imagine that with the amount of hours medicine takes up, it can get quite difficult to spend quality time with them)
• Reduce the workload which is currently affecting you now
• Potentially able to spend time in hospitals (as you mentioned has been one of the best experiences for you so far relating to medicine)

Cons:

• May lengthen the duration of your medical course at university (although not the biggest consideration)
• Can make logistics difficult (in terms of sorting out subjects and timetables)

But remember that not everyone's medical journey will be linear; I'm assuming quite a few people take gap years or just take a break from medicine to recollect themselves, pursue hobbies and make themselves a better person essentially, when they return. So with that in mind, I would definitely recommend taking leave from medical school. The best thing would be to talk about it to your lecturers and university first, both about the struggles and the logistics of taking leave, and then talking to your family and a few close friends about it. That's one of the advantages of university unlike high school; if you need an extended break, it's available for you to take (a refreshed version of yourself would be far healthier and re-energized than a stressed version). But with that in mind, good luck for the future, and hope everything becomes much better.

 

[chinaski]

Incoming rant - would greatly appreciate anyone’s advice and insight

I’m a second-year medical student + the past year or so has really made me question whether medicine is for me. I derive almost no joy from the study or from the hospital placements despite previously loving going on placement before medical school and wanting to get in for so long. During this year, I spent majority of the time stressing, binge eating, having breakdowns and suicidal thoughts, mentally beating myself up and wanting to quit medicine.

Whoa there. Stop. Please - reach out and get help for yourself as your first, second and third priority here. Now is not a time to be making critical decisions about whether or not to continue study. Invest in your own well being: take a leave of absence from your studies, and focus only on getting yourself into a better mental and physical state. This decision shouldn't be made when you are broken. Medicine can wait. Looking after you cannot.