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The Realities of Studying and Practicing Medicine

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Mana

Registrar
Admodistrator

justwondering

New Member
Mana, Why stop reading?

The difference in salaries quite big for different universities.

JCU students are highest satisfaction. Wonder why :D
 

Mana

Registrar
Admodistrator
Mana, Why stop reading?

The difference in salaries quite big for different universities.

JCU students are highest satisfaction. Wonder why :D
The salary first year out of uni isn't set by university, it's set by the state they find their internship in and is relatively constant based on the state award. So all full time interns in NSW get paid the same base rate, and all full time interns in WA get paid the same base rate, and all the full time interns in VIC get paid the same base rate and so on. This has nothing to do with the quality of the uni and everything to do with the location of the jobs interns get which is determined largely by the state of graduation. UWA thus has higher average pay per intern because WA pays all its interns (no matter which university they graduated from) a higher salary.

Bond University has high satisfaction other than the fact that the graduates are highly, highly dissatisfied with their $380k of student debt, but that article didn't say anything about this or even take it into consideration.

From my perspective, I'd be ignoring that article completely.
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
As per Mana, the ranking system that link uses is pretty useless (and very naive as it doesn't acknowledge the fact that JMO salaries are fixed entities in the public service, and not negotiable). What was slightly interesting was the table on reported "satisfaction" rates (though what constitutes "satisfaction" is not clear). The trends between rates reported by students compared to that of graduates was interesting - many students rated the course lower than graduates, suggesting that with the benefit of getting out and working, many gripes, insecurities or criticisms of the course may be mitigated somewhat. However, some schools showed trends in the opposite direction: graduates rating the course lower than the students. I'd be interested to see what changed their minds after graduation.
 

cat123a

New Member
Where you work immediately after graduating depends on where you get an internship. Being a CSP student you are guaranteed one in the state you graduate med from, but you may also apply for one in your home state. This usually works out okay if your home state is NSW, since the NSW gov offers more internships then there are NSW CSP grads and being a returning grad you are slotted in below NSW CSP but above other CSP & int'l grads (although you likely end up in a pretty undesirable location).

Vic is different though, there Vic int'l grads are priority ranked higher than returning CSP grads. There's no guarantee the Vic gov will offer enough internships in future to cover Vic int'l grads let alone lower-ranked returning CSPs.
Would you have any info on internship in WA? Thanks.
 

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
Would you have any info on internship in WA? Thanks.
From Med Deans data there were 287 domestic graduates last year 2017-18 (UWA 193, UNDF 94).

Of the 318 intern positions on offer only 273 were filled by WA-medschool graduates. So they "imported" 45 interns from other states
> Media Statements - Junior doctors welcomed into WA health system

It will be quite different in future though when 70-80 Curtin grads are added to the pool. The gov will increase internships to cover them but likely there will no longer be room for interstate imports.
 

cat123a

New Member
From Med Deans data there were 287 domestic graduates last year 2017-18 (UWA 193, UNDF 94).

Of the 318 intern positions on offer only 273 were filled by WA-medschool graduates. So they "imported" 45 interns from other states
> Media Statements - Junior doctors welcomed into WA health system

It will be quite different in future though when 70-80 Curtin grads are added to the pool. The gov will increase internships to cover them but likely there will no longer be room for interstate imports.
Thank you heaps.
 

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pi

Junior doctor
Admodistrator
Written some advice to new medical students in this MSO blog, if anyone is keen, happy to field questions in this thread or on the blog itself: My advice to newcomers
 
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pi

Junior doctor
Admodistrator
Hate to double-post, but I would recommend having a read of this chilling account of life as a junior doctor in Aus: The ugly side of becoming a surgeon. Certainly issues not unique to where she worked or the surgical pathway, but systemic issues that most are not brave enough to make public.

Other "Junior doctor" blog posts by Miko are also excellent reads.
 

Smelly Boy

Fourth time’s the charm
18FC06A9-2004-4D60-B070-12B6F4421990.jpeg

Questions about the image above
Q1: Since this is dated to 2015, is this info still up to date & an accurate reflection of life after med school?

Q2: for the residency part, what does it mean when it says “can be one or many years”? What determines how long the residency goes for?

Q3: after fellowship, what happens next? Is this the point where you’re officially a psychiatrist (for example)? Or do the different specialities require some more training?
 

Crow

Moderator Band
Moderator
What determines how long the residency goes for?
Whether you pursue and get offered a registrar position (accredited or unaccredited) or not.
Is this the point where you’re officially a psychiatrist (for example)?
Yes, but worth noting that if you have completed fellowship, you still need to be offered a consultant position somewhere. I think in certain specialities (especially in metro areas) this can be a challenge, and some undertake additional fellowships at this stage to broaden their CV (obviously this isn’t the only reason one would undertake an additional fellowship).

I’ll let chinaski comment on that though :)
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
Once you attain your letters, you are theoretically a consultant (so only then can you rightfully claim to be a GP, psychiatrist, surgeon, pathologist, physician etc). The attainment of college fellowship does not automatically mean you get a consultant job, though. So, yes, after you complete the minimum required to attain your letters with the college, not infrequently will people complete several years of extra training in the form of fellowships and/or higher degrees. A bare college fellowship is increasingly not enough to secure employment in the urban, tertiary public hospital system, or to land any kind of academic role.
 

TKAO

crossed fingers for ATAR
Gold star winner
Whether you pursue and get offered a registrar position (accredited or unaccredited) or not.
Yes, but worth noting that if you have completed fellowship, you still need to be offered a consultant position somewhere. I think in certain specialities (especially in metro areas) this can be a challenge, and some undertake additional fellowships at this stage to broaden their CV (obviously this isn’t the only reason one would undertake an additional fellowship).

I’ll let chinaski comment on that though :)
What is the different between an unaccredited registrar position and an accredited one?
 

Benjamin

Admin (JCU MBBS)
Emeritus
What is the different between an unaccredited registrar position and an accredited one?
Differences depend a lot on the actual job itself, but in general accredited positions require you to be a part of the training college (surg, physician, ED, ICU etc.) and so often necessitate a more senior registrar. Theoretically the accredited positions are supposed to have the job that needs more experience / seniority but there are certainly situations where this isn't the case - for example if your hospital isn't accredited for a urology registrar training position then often the unaccredited general surgery registrar will cover urology overnight... essentially being expected to act as the accredited urology reg despite not being on that training program. Being an accredited registrar also affords you the protection of the college -- there are minimum requirements that the colleges outline that in order to keep accreditation the hospital must abide by, often these include rostering agreements (non-clinical days, maximum amount of time spent on night shifts, minimum operating/clinical time) minimum supervision and so on.. which means the accredited registrar job is sometimes more protected than unaccredited jobs (especially common in surgical fields).

One is accredited for college training, the other isn't. Unaccredited time cannot be used towards training requirements.
In most cases this is true but some colleges will retrospectively accredit training... though this comes with its own set of challenges. I am still technically an unaccredited ICU registrar but the 12 months of ICU I have done + 12 months of med time + rural time (3 months) will count towards my overall ICU time even though it was completed prior to being a part of the college.

Similarly, there is the potential to get medical terms retrospectively accredited for Basic Physician Training but only if you prospectively sort out a lot of things -- you need a supervisor willing to tick you off twice a term (often has to be the director of training), need to do mini-CEX's, need to submit a essay to the college begging for them to approve it etc. etc.

GP is similar, you can get everything except your final 18 months in a GP practice accredited before even applying to the college.

For more specialised positions (i.e. not generalist type jobs) though the majority of your time will be spent in that actual specialty and for the most part no time you have spent outside of the specialty will count for anything other than minimum requirements - e.g. Orthopaedics don't count any of your time until you are PGY3+ and working as a registrar, most surgical terms don't count any of your unaccredited years towards training (you can be a PHO for 6 years and still have to do the full SET training).
 

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chinaski

Regular Member
In most cases this is true but some colleges will retrospectively accredit training... though this comes with its own set of challenges. *snip*

Similarly, there is the potential to get medical terms retrospectively accredited for Basic Physician Training but only if you prospectively sort out a lot of things -- you need a supervisor willing to tick you off twice a term (often has to be the director of training), need to do mini-CEX's, need to submit a essay to the college begging for them to approve it etc. etc.
I didn't mention retrospective accreditation of training as it's slippery and certainly not guaranteed. Theoretically the RACP will *consider* RPL but will often turn requests down (after charging an application fee, of course). The hoops to jump through that you mention are only the half of it - the quality and site of training must also be of a certain standard to be considered. Over the years the college has really restricted retrospective accreditation - their policy used to be a great deal more generous.
 

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