UQ UQ Medicine: Provisional Entry Questions and Discussion

miss_universe

muse.
Emeritus Staff

kashmuq

U mad?
Would like to get some different opinions: who thinks this undermines the value of a UQ degree and has ramifications for future employment?
 

miss_universe

muse.
Emeritus Staff
Merged. Already made this thread.
 

miss_universe

muse.
Emeritus Staff
Sure, but I thought it more suited undergrad requirements. I am happy to move it. I found it entertaining that a mod didnt use the search function first..but I wont go into that. XD
 

kashmuq

U mad?
Sure, but I thought it more suited undergrad requirements. I am happy to move it. I found it entertaining that a mod didnt use the search function first..but I wont go into that. XD

Nah just a suggestion, up to you guys.

And trolololol maybe it's time for the toastmaster to resign as he is losing touch :p
 

greenglacier

Emeritus Staff
Emeritus Staff
OK, this has been done to death in chatbox, but...

This document really doesn't sit well with me and, for me, raises questions about the transparency and integrity of UQ administration.

(1) The obvious VC scandal. Now, I appreciate that this was just one student and that the incident has been identified (and is being acted on accordingly), but it raises serious questions about the administration at the university. One has to wonder how the VC got away with this - did he simply tell the med school to admit a certain student with a UMAT below the cutoff without getting questioned/challenged?

(2) The attitude of the medical school seems to be one of privately ignoring regulations to make arbitrary decisions about admissions. They arbitrarily decided to admit all applicants with 99.95 regardless of UMAT score after all applications were in and the offer list generated, without public disclosure. Similarly they arbitrarily decided at a later stage to only give second round offers to Queenslanders. Had they stuck to the public regulations they had declared in advance those extra offers would've gone to those applicants who had missed out who had the highest UMAT scores. You can't just arbitrarily decide, in private, to alter the system of choosing students after applications are in and the offer list generated, just because you don't like the offer list.

In my mind an institution that is prepared to break with regulations so easily is one whose integrity is questionable. If I were a UQ student I'd be questioning this attitude out of fear of the image it creates starting to undermine the value of a UQ degree. If regulations regarding admission to a degree can be so crassly ignored, how secure are the regulations regarding graduation?


I'm not questioning the value of the education received by any UQ student on the forum, particularly any MBBS students (whose degree has been deemed adequate by the AMC), nor am I trying to besmirch the name of UQ, nor am I claiming to represent any majority view. All I'm saying is that this process should be far more transparent and rigorous, and, from my perspective, threatens to undermine the integrity of UQ as an institution. All universities suffer issues like this - the important thing is how they respond to it. I apologise if this is offensive to anyone as this is certainly not my intention. I am merely expressing my opinion that the process outlined in the document linked to above does not sit well with me at all.
 

Mas1991

Member
OK, this has been done to death in chatbox, but...

In my mind an institution that is prepared to break with regulations so easily is one whose integrity is questionable. If I were a UQ student I'd be questioning this attitude out of fear of the image it creates starting to undermine the value of a UQ degree. If regulations regarding admission to a degree can be so crassly ignored, how secure are the regulations regarding graduation?

This whole fiasco doesn't really have me questioning the value of my degree but solidifies the shiftiness of our school of medicine. It's not really the university that's acting without impunity, apart from the whole VC incident that's been dealt with. But the SOM has time and time again ignored procedure and treated its current, and now future students extremely poorly. This became clear this year with the whole Ipswich fiasco; then again with the Wesley hospital clinical rotations and now with admissions. But yeah this is more to do with the school then the university.
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
This whole fiasco doesn't really have me questioning the value of my degree but solidifies the shiftiness of our school of medicine. It's not really the university that's acting without impunity, apart from the whole VC incident that's been dealt with. But the SOM has time and time again ignored procedure and treated its current, and now future students extremely poorly. This became clear this year with the whole Ipswich fiasco; then again with the Wesley hospital clinical rotations and now with admissions. But yeah this is more to do with the school then the university.

You can add the second year grades fiasco to their ever-growing list of disasters too. The UQMS is taking that one all the way to the UQ Senate.
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
Something else entirely. According to our ECP, and the words of virtually every SOM lecturer all year, our OSCEs were to be worth 25% of our grade for the year. Too many people passed OSCEs and got the full 25%, and consequently too many people did well for their liking, so they decided to make OSCEs pass/fail and thus worth 0%, and re-calculate our GPAs based on the remaining 75% of assessment. Upwards of 60 people failed the year because of this, and almost everyone slipped a grade. I went from a 7 to a 6. Essentially, the School of Medicine tried to normalise, or "bell-curve" a criterion-based course.
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
Without telling us or changing the ECP I might add. Our ECP still says that OSCEs are to be worth 25%. I also missed out on attaining entry to Honours because of it. I am seething.
 

godoftoast

Señor Member
Emeritus Staff
Something else entirely. According to our ECP, and the words of virtually every SOM lecturer all year, our OSCEs were to be worth 25% of our grade for the year. Too many people passed OSCEs and got the full 25%, and consequently too many people did well for their liking, so they decided to make OSCEs pass/fail and thus worth 0%, and re-calculate our GPAs based on the remaining 75% of assessment. Upwards of 60 people failed the year because of this, and almost everyone slipped a grade. I went from a 7 to a 6. Essentially, the School of Medicine tried to normalise, or "bell-curve" a criterion-based course.

Wow that is rather crap. Hope you guys are successful in getting a decent outcome. What are the chances of the Senate doing anything though? Are the signs positive or is it still to early to tell?
 

kashmuq

U mad?
WTF
how can they change assessment weightings AFTER the assessment...people failing on account of this is total bs, I for one would base my time management on those weightings...
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
Things aren't looking good. We've all emailed the SOM individually, and the UQMS lodged an appeal with the SOM. We received an email from Wilko today that essentially said, "thing's aren't going to change and that's that. The SOM decides what grade is a pass and what isn't, and how those grades are determined".

The next step is to go to the UQ Senate, so we'll see. Our best bet is trying to say that they breached a contract, as it is clearly stated in the course profile that OSCEs are worth 25%. I hope it works, because I really wanted in on Honours, but I am not hopeful. You'll soon discover the SOM are a law unto themselves.
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
WTF
how can they change assessment weightings AFTER the assessment...people failing on account of this is total bs, I for one would base my time management on those weightings...

Exactly. Many people were told they passed OSCEs, and thus received the full 25% and were guaranteed at least a 4 for the year, and relaxed a little before final exams. They did poorly on final exams, had OSCEs made to be worth 0% and consequently failed. It was a low move.
 

godoftoast

Señor Member
Emeritus Staff
Exactly. Many people were told they passed OSCEs, and thus received the full 25% and were guaranteed at least a 4 for the year, and relaxed a little before final exams. They did poorly on final exams, had OSCEs made to be worth 0% and consequently failed. It was a low move.

What are they doing about the people who have now failed? Are they being given chances to pass the year (for that lost 25%) or are they going to have to repeat units/years?
 

kizza_boy

Regular Member
The majority of people who failed (about 50/70) have been offered supps and are sitting them on Wednesday. About 20 people have not been offered supps and have to either repeat the year, or find a new choice of career.
 
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