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[Undergrad] Discussion: Pros and Cons of Taking a Gap Year

vexx

Regular Member
What's a "full fee guarantee"?

Melbourne university has full-fee places for local students and so you can get guaranteed entry into grad medicine if you meet prerequisites, like ATAR/GPA average/interview (no gamsat).
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Melbourne university has full-fee places for local students and so you can get guaranteed entry into grad medicine if you meet prerequisites, like ATAR/GPA average/interview (no gamsat).

You are aware that such a place doesn't come with a guarantee you'll be given an internship, don't you? Melbourne gets your cash, but you might get a degree you can't use in exchange.
 

vexx

Regular Member
You are aware that such a place doesn't come with a guarantee you'll be given an internship, don't you? Melbourne gets your cash, but you might get a degree you can't use in exchange.

I'd prefer to do a degree this way, then not do a degree at all.. This will just be a backup plan if i dont get in to other unis/CSP melbourne.

I still have yet to decide when I'm even doing though heh, that was the plan.
 

chinaski

Regular Member
I'd prefer to do a degree this way, then not do a degree at all.. This will just be a backup plan if i dont get in to other unis/CSP melbourne.

The lack of employment dilemma is worth considering. An FFP is great for someone who wants to be a medical student - potentially not so great for someone who wants to be an intern thereafter. It's terrific, however, for Melbourne's coffers. Don't let desperation back you into a corner. There are better Plan Bs than an FFP.
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
An FFP is great for someone who wants to be a medical student - potentially not so great for someone who wants to be an intern thereafter.

Why would you want to be a medical student with no prospects of employment thereafter?
 

vexx

Regular Member
Havox- i've spoke to someone before that wanted to do medicine only because of doing research after. Others may want to go into teaching, and so on.

The lack of employment dilemma is worth considering. An FFP is great for someone who wants to be a medical student - potentially not so great for someone who wants to be an intern thereafter. It's terrific, however, for Melbourne's coffers. Don't let desperation back you into a corner. There are better Plan Bs than an FFP.

I guess you are right, I have a lot of time to think about this though.
Other plans could be Physio (would have guaranteed CSP), but then it could be difficult to maintain a high GPA in that course to get into a graduate med? And honours could be similar with difficultly.

I could be okay though, only time will tell..
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Why would you want to be a medical student with no prospects of employment thereafter?

Indeed - why would you? Nonetheless, people can be exceedingly short sighted - they think getting into med school is the first and last obstacle they'll have to conquer. What they don't understand is that med school no longer comes with a smooth, guaranteed ride into employment: when you accept an FFP place, you need to understand that you are accepting a place to be a medical student only, not necessarily an intern.

It's also food for thought. I believe a lot of people are attracted to the idea of studying medicine, not practicing it. Not much thought goes beyond the point of getting an offer to enroll.
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
At the moment the CSP folks are still guaranteed spots right? :mellow:
 

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Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
Correct. The x-factor, however, is how much the sands are going to shift under your feet in the meantime.

4 years can be a long time...No point worrying about something you can't change though. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it :lol:

How hard is it getting into one of the specialist colleges?
 

chinaski

Regular Member
4 years can be a long time...No point worrying about something you can't change though. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it :lol:

It's worth being active and vocal while you're a student, though. If you don't make your voice heard, the state and federal governments won't stop to ask you what you think.

It is alarming to see how quickly things have shifted. When I graduated, nobody ever dreamed about not getting a job - indeed, many of us applied in several states, and had lots of job offers to choose from. Not even a decade on, and we're already seeing international FFPs in NSW miss out on internships this year. It's like night and day.

How hard is it getting into one of the specialist colleges?

That rather depends on what college you apply to!
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
It's worth being active and vocal while you're a student, though. If you don't make your voice heard, the state and federal governments won't stop to ask you what you think.
That's a fair point, and its lucky that we have so many student advocacy organisations and associations for medicine.

It is alarming to see how quickly things have shifted. When I graduated, nobody ever dreamed about not getting a job - indeed, many of us applied in several states, and had lots of job offers to choose from. Not even a decade on, and we're already seeing international FFPs in NSW miss out on internships this year. It's like night and day.
So what do those who miss out do? Can they do the internship in their home countries?

That rather depends on what college you apply to!
Fair enough, but in terms of overall training positions (in total) compared to the number of applicants. Would it stack up favourably?
 

chinaski

Regular Member
So what do those who miss out do? Can they do the internship in their home countries?

That's the general feeling, though they can also find themselves on the outer back home, given that their MBBS isn't from their home country. Nonetheless, generally speaking, international FFPs have the option of applying overseas for internship, which is a more advantageous position than a domestic FFP might find themselves in.


Fair enough, but in terms of overall training positions (in total) compared to the number of applicants. Would it stack up favourably?

At present, in general (ie excluding the very competitive specialties), getting onto a program isn't a drama. This will not be the case in a few years, though, as junior doctors move up the ladder. There will almost certainly be a bottleneck, which in the long term may well prove more soul-destroying than the initial scramble for intern jobs.
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
That's the general feeling, though they can also find themselves on the outer back home, given that their MBBS isn't from their home country. Nonetheless, generally speaking, international FFPs have the option of applying overseas for internship, which is a more advantageous position than a domestic FFP might find themselves in.
Oh ok, the Malaysian students have been telling me that there are too many prospective interns back in their home country so that would mean that they're pretty much screwed when they graduate?

At present, in general (ie excluding the very competitive specialties), getting onto a program isn't a drama. This will not be the case in a few years, though, as junior doctors move up the ladder. There will almost certainly be a bottleneck, which in the long term may well prove more soul-destroying than the initial scramble for intern jobs.

If you don't get a training position, that would mean you'd be stuck as a Resident forever :cry: When you do think this bottleneck is going to occur? Surely as the years go by, we'll have more Consultants to train the next generation?
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Oh ok, the Malaysian students have been telling me that there are too many prospective interns back in their home country so that would mean that they're pretty much screwed when they graduate?

Yeah, a lot of internationals aren't on an even playing field when they go home - but at least they have the option of applying! I'm not so au fait with the Asian countries WRT to overseas internships, as graduate schools take comparatively few internationals from those areas. The Canadians also claim they struggle to find jobs when they go home, too.

If you don't get a training position, that would mean you'd be stuck as a Resident forever :cry: When you do think this bottleneck is going to occur? Surely as the years go by, we'll have more Consultants to train the next generation?

Where are these consultants meant to be coming from?
I'd say we'll have a much different workplace in 5-10 years as trainees bank up in the middle ranks. The hospitals will love it: lots and lots of unaccredited trainees, working their butts off with the hope that they get noticed enough to get onto the program of their choice. Trainees are great worker ants. The hospitals will enjoy having a glut of them to use at their will.
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
Where are these consultants meant to be coming from?
I'd say we'll have a much different workplace in 5-10 years as trainees bank up in the middle ranks. The hospitals will love it: lots and lots of unaccredited trainees, working their butts off with the hope that they get noticed enough to get onto the program of their choice. Trainees are great worker ants. The hospitals will enjoy having a glut of them to use at their will.

Coming from the currently Registrars I'm assuming. Oh dear...Thanks for answering China :)
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Coming from the currently Registrars I'm assuming. Oh dear...Thanks for answering China :)

We're still outnumbered (a great deal) by the graduates being churned out by the medical schools. There's also the consideration of the fact that many people are choosing to work part time once they get their fellowship, so there are comparatively fewer full-time "eat, live, sleep, breathe medicine" consultants out there than 20 years ago. This also limits the capacity of the system to train registrars. Additionally, we need senior consultants in the ranks to mentor juniors. A newly minted consultant hasn't the breadth and depth of knowledge a senior has - we can't rely solely on consultants who will come from my generation to train the next wave alone.
 

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Lukybear

Regular Member
Can someone tell me what this is about? What is the problem with FFPS and no internships? Is it because of the heaps of students we are pumping out?

Also just interested, what sort of stuff do they look for to get into specialists colleges.
 

Havox

Sword and Martini Guy!
Emeritus Staff
Just way more students than there are people to train them and in the future way too many junior doctors and not enough senior ones to train those.
 
How is your gap year going? Were your reasons similar to mine?

Hey vexx! Yep they are pretty much the same, although i only made the decision to drop out after a month in my UoM biomed course. I got an ENTER of 98.70 so i miss out on the full fee guaranteed position anyway. Also it was too late for me to repeat a few vce subjects...

However, it has been a real benefit to have spent that one month in uni. I have got to experience uni life and the changes in study habits. It's funny cos, even though i have no longer have records of being a uni student, I still have my student ID card and can access all of the uni's libraries and facilities :D.

Ill tell you a few things that i have done this year are:
I did work experience at several medical/dental clinics and at the royal dental hospital of melbourne. It was EXTREMELY difficult to find work experience since i am not a student and i would need to pay a few thousand dollars for insurance. I got to sit for my music exams which i have been putting off for many years. I did a first aid course and an RSA course. I also attended several interview courses. I got my probationary drivers license. I have been learning a new language and I have been working as a VCE tutor at two centres and doing volunteer work at an age care / rehab centre.

In the first half of the year, my main focus was on the umat. Since the end of last year, I read a lot of novels, psychology books and science/medical journals. I learnt a lot of new words through preparation and improved a lot on my timing through practise exams. When I sat the umat this year, conditions have never been better. I had an afternoon exam, my table wasnt squeaky, I wasnt sick like i was last year and most of all, I knew what to expect. I had better focussed and my performance was the best that i could have done. Hopefully this doesnt scare you, but i was devastated when i got a umat percentile of 73 this year. My section 2 remained the same as last year (40), but my section 1 and 3 improved greatly. I know that I have blew my chances, but there is nothing more that i could have done and there was an improvement from 39 -> 73. I feel really helpless and frustrated since I can't do anything except wait, hope and plan what i should do next year. However, I have worked so hard for so many years and my desire to be a doctor will only keep growing from failure.

If anyone asks me if this year was worth it, I would say YES DEFINITELY ! Surprisingly, this year has passed by really quickly. I guess it's because there is always something to look forward to and something to prepare for. I have done so many things that I couldn't have done and there are still so many things that I have left to do. It's great because I always have the time to catch up with friends, attend parties and do whatever i feel like doing. I guess to make it worthwhile, you really need to discipline yourself and organise your time. But the main thing is, whatever decision you make, it will end up being the correct one.
 

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