Medicine pay

[coco1]

its not how much u make but how much you help

anyway if u wanna make da $$$ do dent

I think people underestimate the help dentists actually offer to their patients (relieving pain, providing long term comfort/better lifestyle etc. the list goes on). And if people want to make $$ I would suggest doing something along the lines of business or commerce, because studying dentistry is no walk in the park either.

 

[LottoX]

I think people underestimate the help dentists actually offer to their patients (relieving pain, providing long term comfort/better lifestyle etc. the list goes on). And if people want to make $$ I would suggest doing something along the lines of business or commerce, because studying dentistry is no walk in the park either.

I would say that dentists make disproportionately more than they contribute to society. I mean, in my books nurses > dentists in the capacities that you have listed that dentists help people.

 

[Kapinny]

just went through the ads and found

Psychiatry: around 200k
GP: 300k+
dental nurse: around 50k

EDIT: wow just noticed theres a huge shortage for GPs

can't find anything else sorry

GP's 300k+??
are u sure man i think thats wayy to high

 

[Matt]

just to elucidate of what i said my morals are, i meant that i thik i'll find medicine immensely interesting as a subject. i love knowing how things work, why they happen, and how to fix them. i find the human body and the workings of it to be a fascinating subject. i also like the fact in involves working with people and is very broad - philosophy, psychology, sociology as u mention.

on the subject of a hands on job.(yy) yes i think thats also something thats sets medicine apart from other jobs as i mentioned earlier, but taking into account the stressful lifestyle, would u agree that dentistry probably is a better choice. it is guaranteed to give hands on work, and to an extent is like a medical specialty (ie. eventually as a doctor u will specialise in a certain area of the body or task such as surgery again in certain areas or u become a gp - not my point there though)? to go with that dentistry is much shorter to become qualified, the working hours are good (I have experienced them first hand - work experience), and the money is great right from the beginning.

any opinions?
also how much do dentists and the dental specialties make?:huh:

pete

Maybe you should check what morals mean then. You're talking about motivation.

Dentistry is a much shorter path to a well-paying, 'hands-on', job with much less demanding accreditation requirements. I don't think it's like a medical specialty though... people forget that medical specialists, while specialising in one area of the body, have (and need to have) excellent medical knowledge of the whole body.

Except for maybe opthalmology (and even then, not really) all medical specialties require integration of medicine training with specialist knowledge. Dentistry is much more confined in its scope. There's a reason why you need to train for 12 years or more before you can call yourself a specialist.

I think people underestimate the help dentists actually offer to their patients (relieving pain, providing long term comfort/better lifestyle etc. the list goes on). And if people want to make $$ I would suggest doing something along the lines of business or commerce, because studying dentistry is no walk in the park either.

I disagree. They provide a service for renumeration, if they didn't provide that service the person could get it elsewhere. There's little scope for the dentist to go above and beyond his/her requirements and really make a difference in his/her patient's life.

I don't think dentistry study is easy but, like MBBS, I don't think it's all that hard either. A degree is dentistry, to me, sounds like a pretty easy thing to do in exchange for a well-paying secure job. I think the equivalent in business/commerce would require more effort.

I would say that dentists make disproportionately more than they contribute to society. I mean, in my books nurses > dentists in the capacities that you have listed that dentists help people.

Agree.

GP's 300k+??
are u sure man i think thats wayy to high

The figures bondap is mentioning are from advertisements. With the national shortage of GPs, you can get figures as high as 300k (sometimes as high as 500k) to work in areas of significant workforce shortage. Often rural areas. The average GP working in a urban practice is not likely to be on that kind of money.

 

[coco1]

Dentistry is a much shorter path to a well-paying, 'hands-on', job with much less demanding accreditation requirements. I don't think it's like a medical specialty though... people forget that medical specialists, while specialising in one area of the body, have (and need to have) excellent medical knowledge of the whole body.


I disagree. They provide a service for renumeration, if they didn't provide that service the person could get it elsewhere. There's little scope for the dentist to go above and beyond his/her requirements and really make a difference in his/her patient's life.

I don't think dentistry study is easy but, like MBBS, I don't think it's all that hard either. A degree is dentistry, to me, sounds like a pretty easy thing to do in exchange for a well-paying secure job. I think the equivalent in business/commerce would require more effort.

Dental Specialities are very demanding and extremely difficult to enter in, and like medical specialities, dental specialities (to a lesser extent of course) require excellent knowledge of the whole body.

One reason why dentists are paid so well, is due to the manual dexterity involved in their line of work, I guess its about paying for a skill.

“ if they didn't provide that service the person could get it elsewhere”? Where else would they go? Dentistry is a monopoly occupation, only a dentist can perform these procedures.

 

[Matt]

Dental Specialities are very demanding and extremely difficult to enter in, and like medical specialities, dental specialities (to a lesser extent of course) require excellent knowledge of the whole body.

One reason why dentists are paid so well, is due to the manual dexterity involved in their line of work, I guess its about paying for a skill.

“ if they didn't provide that service the person could get it elsewhere”? Where else would they go? Dentistry is a monopoly occupation, only a dentist can perform these procedures.

I'm not talking about dental specialties (and neither were you in your original post), I'm talking about dentists and dentistry. I'm also not denying the fact that dentists are highly trained, highly skilled people whose work is valuable and important.

What I am saying is that by becoming a dentist you are learning a skill at university that you can exchange for cash. Given the renumeration and job security offered in dentisty, I think the fact that all you need to do is get into the university degree and pass, makes the whole thing relatively easy.

To get similar renumeration and job security in business or commerce, in my personal opinion, seems more difficult. To become fully qualifed as a medical specialist, also, is a more difficult and complicated endeavour.

My point about people getting the dentistry service elsewhere is this. By becoming a dentist you are exchanging skills for cash. Since you are being renumerated for your work, it's akin to a business transaction. If one particular dentist didn't provide that service, the person could get the same service from another dentist. That is to say, your role as a dentist isn't a world-changing role, if it wasn't you doing this 'help' it'd be someone else (another dentist). Thus I don't think dentistry is about helping people, I think it's about exchanging goods for services.

Medicine, in many cases, is likewise. Aside from surgery, however, I think there is more opportunity in medicine to go above and beyond your call of duty and help people. Not much more though, hence why I don't think 'wanting to help people' is a particularly good reason for wanting to do medicine.... unless you really intend to go above and beyond your duty.

 

[...pete...]

just went through the ads and found

Psychiatry: around 200k
GP: 300k+
dental nurse: around 50k

EDIT: wow just noticed theres a huge shortage for GPs

can't find anything else sorry

really! thats a lot more than i expected. particularly for pysch.

no need to b sorry. its all good. thanks

 

[...pete...]

Maybe you should check what morals mean then. You're talking about motivation.

yea sorry ur right there.
it was the middle of the night wen i said that.:wacko:

 

[theangelofdarkness]

renumeration

It's remuneration. Renumeration is recounting, remuneration is being given money in exchange for things. I only bring this up because you used the word about ten times, and I couldn't shake the image of a dentist sitting there counting teeth and money.

Dentists do follow a difficult training path, and require high levels of skills like doctors. They are also able to save lives, albeit only through illnesses and diseases they know about (much like most doctors). Unfortunately, the majority of those will affect the mouth, and so they will not pick up on other problems that their patients may have, as they will only be able to know about it as it relates to the patient's mouth. Doctors, on the other hand, frequently do general examinations even if they are a specialist in one area or another.

That being said, both are commendable and well paid areas to work in. They also sell really well with parents, potential partners, and the public in general. What was my point again? Oh yeah, either one is a good choice to study, and they both end up "helping people" and "healing the sick". If either of these are in the list of things you want as a career, then these career paths may fulfill you. However, "helping people" is possible in many fields, and so is "healing the sick".

 

[Matt]

Thanks for the heads up, Aod

 

[...pete...]

It's remuneration.

That being said, both are commendable and well paid areas to work in. They also sell really well with parents, potential partners, and the public in general. What was my point again? Oh yeah, either one is a good choice to study, and they both end up "helping people" and "healing the sick". If either of these are in the list of things you want as a career, then these career paths may fulfill you. However, "helping people" is possible in many fields, and so is "healing the sick".

yea Matt i thought it was remuneration. that makes us even.^_^

AoD i think thats summed them up well. they both work towards the same outcome - improving the health and quality of life of the patient right?

 

[theangelofdarkness]

Anytime, Matt.

Yes, they do work towards the same outcome, if you consider the world in very broad brushstrokes. However, Matt's point is towards slightly more detailed issues at hand here. A dentist is unlikely to cure (or diagnose) a condition that is not mouth related, while a doctor should be able to pick that up.

Dentistry and medicine are very different degrees. I would consider nursing and medicine to be more closely related, or physiotherapy and medicine. The major similarity at hand between dentistry and medicine to me is the remuneration involved.

 

[...pete...]

Anytime, Matt.
Dentistry and medicine are very different degrees. I would consider nursing and medicine to be more closely related, or physiotherapy and medicine. The major similarity at hand between dentistry and medicine to me is the remuneration involved.

to add to that, i'd say the main similarities between medicine and dentistry would also include the social status, entry requirements and as u say, money.

 

[coco1]

I'm not talking about dental specialties (and neither were you in your original post), I'm talking about dentists and dentistry. I'm also not denying the fact that dentists are highly trained, highly skilled people whose work is valuable and important.

What I am saying is that by becoming a dentist you are learning a skill at university that you can exchange for cash. Given the renumeration and job security offered in dentisty, I think the fact that all you need to do is get into the university degree and pass, makes the whole thing relatively easy.

To get similar renumeration and job security in business or commerce, in my personal opinion, seems more difficult. To become fully qualifed as a medical specialist, also, is a more difficult and complicated endeavour.

My point about people getting the dentistry service elsewhere is this. By becoming a dentist you are exchanging skills for cash. Since you are being renumerated for your work, it's akin to a business transaction. If one particular dentist didn't provide that service, the person could get the same service from another dentist. That is to say, your role as a dentist isn't a world-changing role, if it wasn't you doing this 'help' it'd be someone else (another dentist). Thus I don't think dentistry is about helping people, I think it's about exchanging goods for services.

Medicine, in many cases, is likewise. Aside from surgery, however, I think there is more opportunity in medicine to go above and beyond your call of duty and help people. Not much more though, hence why I don't think 'wanting to help people' is a particularly good reason for wanting to do medicine.... unless you really intend to go above and beyond your duty.

It is not only dentists that exchange skills for cash, if I don’t like the “service” or the treatment options given to me by my GP, I will go to some other GP that will better suit my needs… so what I’m basically saying is that “if one GP wasn’t able to help me out, then someone else (another GP) would”. This idea of any profession being like a “business transaction” depends on the individual; it only has to be that way if you want it to be!

Dentistry alone provides many opportunities where an individual can go above and beyond their call of duty to help people. My tutor frequently visits indigenous tribes in Papua New Guinea to help detect HIV-affected individuals via periodontal examinations. Other general dentists and dental specialists such as oral surgeons and orthodontists in my uni alone goes to developing countries to provide care for children with cleft palates and lips (and these are only a few examples)… so if you still think that “dentistry is not about helping people… and about exchanging goods for services” you are clearly very misinformed about our profession.

I can understand if a lay person thinks that dentists only “drill and fill” and we only as you say “exchange goods for services”, but I am surprised that such narrow-minded comments are coming from someone studying in the medical profession.

To become part of the medical profession, you too like dental graduates have to get into the university degree and pass. To become a fully qualified medical “specialist”, as you say is difficult and complicated. But if you are comparing the pathway to becoming a “medical specialist”, then you have to compare this to a pathway of a dentist who is endeavouring to become a dental specialist. Getting into a dental speciality is not an easy task… it is extremely competitive and challenging.

 

[Matt]

It is not only dentists that exchange skills for cash, if I don’t like the “service” or the treatment options given to me by my GP, I will go to some other GP that will better suit my needs… so what I’m basically saying is that “if one GP wasn’t able to help me out, then someone else (another GP) would”. This idea of any profession being like a “business transaction” depends on the individual; it only has to be that way if you want it to be!

Medicine, in many cases, is likewise. Aside from surgery, however, I think there is more opportunity in medicine to go above and beyond your call of duty and help people. Not much more though, hence why I don't think 'wanting to help people' is a particularly good reason for wanting to do medicine.... unless you really intend to go above and beyond your duty.

Dentistry alone provides many opportunities where an individual can go above and beyond their call of duty to help people. My tutor frequently visits indigenous tribes in Papua New Guinea to help detect HIV-affected individuals via periodontal examinations. Other general dentists and dental specialists such as oral surgeons and orthodontists in my uni alone goes to developing countries to provide care for children with cleft palates and lips (and these are only a few examples)… so if you still think that “dentistry is not about helping people… and about exchanging goods for services” you are clearly very misinformed about our profession.

Medicine, in many cases, is likewise. Aside from surgery, however, I think there is more opportunity in medicine to go above and beyond your call of duty and help people. Not much more though, hence why I don't think 'wanting to help people' is a particularly good reason for wanting to do medicine.... unless you really intend to go above and beyond your duty.

I can understand if a lay person thinks that dentists only “drill and fill” and we only as you say “exchange goods for services”, but I am surprised that such narrow-minded comments are coming from someone studying in the medical profession.

Only is your word, not mine. There is opportunity to help people in Dentistry, as there is in medicine if you are prepared to go above and beyond your call and duty. This however is an extreme of dentistry and medicine.

Please be aware I am not talking about the extreme of going to developing countries. I was replying to your comment about relieving pain and providing a comfortable lifestyle etc. This is what a dentist is paid to do and is what I mean when I talk about the exchange of goods and services.

To become part of the medical profession, you too like dental graduates have to get into the university degree and pass. To become a fully qualified medical “specialist”, as you say is difficult and complicated. But if you are comparing the pathway to becoming a “medical specialist”, then you have to compare this to a pathway of a dentist who is endeavouring to become a dental specialist. Getting into a dental speciality is not an easy task… it is extremely competitive and challenging.

If I'm comparing doctors and dental specialist I will compare doctor training pathways and dental specialist training pathways. If I am comparing doctors and dentists I will compare doctor training pathways and dentistry pathways.

 

[nottellingu]

If u do med for the money ull probably fail anyway

 

[chinaski]

Dentistry alone provides many opportunities where an individual can go above and beyond their call of duty to help people. My tutor frequently visits indigenous tribes in Papua New Guinea to help detect HIV-affected individuals via periodontal examinations.

There are easier and more accurate ways of diagnosing HIV than looking into people's mouths.

To steer you back onto topic, it's worth pointing out the difference between working for what Medicare will pay you, and working in an industry that isn't driven by Medicare. I think this is where the whole "dentist being a service provider above all" belief comes from - sure, you can help people and make a difference, but you also get to do it on your terms, and call your price.

 

[coco1]

Some GP’s bulk bill plus charge extra (like my GP) so GP’s like dentists, to a certain extent, can also call their own price. Dentists do get recommendations from the ADA about the prices we can charge so it’s not like we can charge whatever we want.

But Matt’s statement of:

Thus I don't think dentistry is about helping people, I think it's about exchanging goods for services.

Is completely wrong. The examples I gave were extreme but my point is dentistry does gives you plenty of opportunities to help people. Yes most dentists like to relieve pain and get money for it (and believe me if you ever suffered a toothache, getting relief from pain is a BIG help on its own), but that’s the lifestyle they want.

Lol and yes there are probably easier and more accurate ways of detecting HIV, but I’m sure my professor had his own reasons why he chose that method.

 

[Matt]

My point is simply this:

Dentistry is about exchanging goods for services. You go to a dentist, you pay your money, you get your service.

A carpenter could just as easily go over to Papua New Guinea and help people. That's about the person, not the profession. Dentistry and carpentry both give you the opportunity to help people but there's a difference between having the opportunity to help someone and exchanging goods for services. If all dentists went over to PNG to help people without being paid for it then dentistry might be about helping people.... but they don't.

Same deal, mostly for doctors. Hence my point that people who think that by doing medicine (or dentistry) they are doing their part to help other people need to rethink things. They're providing a service in exchange for goods.

 

[Season]

Dentistry is about exchanging goods for services. You go to a dentist, you pay your money, you get your service.

How is this different to medicine ? How is that different to any job? Isn't that the definition of a job?