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Decision Making

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nb

Awesome Member
It is implied when you say 'all the customers at the cinema who liked thriller movies,' that some customers liked thriller movies.
This actually is false. As you can see from the following example:
View attachment 3499

Third option was NO because you cannot assume that there indeed exists Musc which are not Xanth...
Similarly, you cannot assume that costumers at the cinema actually liked thriller movies...
 

N182

Regular Member
This actually is false. As you can see from the following example:
View attachment 3499

Third option was NO because you cannot assume that there indeed exists Musc which are not Xanth...
Similarly, you cannot assume that costumers at the cinema actually liked thriller movies...
Can you show an example from the official mocks? Then I would agree with you.
 

nb

Awesome Member
Can you show an example from the official mocks? Then I would agree with you.
I haven't come across a question that requires this in the official mocks. If I do, I'll be sure to share it with you and the wider MSO community! :)
 

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whys

Regular Member™
To corroborate what ucatboy and A1 said about deducing that some X are Y from the information that all X are Y, I have some concrete evidence from the official UCAT website:
1593517647903.png
With the explanation of statement D being:
1593517672485.png
 

DCA

Member
Hey noodleboy could you please just clarify something with that question you posted? (sorry not sure how to tag you haha)

So this is the venn diagram that I drew for the situation:
1593519121962.png
Is this accurate?

From this it would have to follow that X and G are different right?

From that, I believe it also follows that there is some M that is not X (it is G). Thus, the 3rd statement is true? If the answer is no, then it seems like I'm wrong, but could someone please point out where I made the mistake? It seems fine to me :/
 

whys

Regular Member™
Hey noodleboy could you please just clarify something with that question you posted? (sorry not sure how to tag you haha)

So this is the venn diagram that I drew for the situation:
View attachment 3567
Is this accurate?

From this it would have to follow that X and G are different right?

From that, I believe it also follows that there is some M that is not X (it is G). Thus, the 3rd statement is true? If the answer is no, then it seems like I'm wrong, but could someone please point out where I made the mistake? It seems fine to me :/
I would say your Venn diagram is lacking - some G can also be X because there is not enough info in the question to conclude that G and X must be separate, so the Venn diagram could go both ways - one how you've drawn it, and another where G and X are overlapping.
 

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nb

Awesome Member
Hey noodleboy could you please just clarify something with that question you posted? (sorry not sure how to tag you haha)

So this is the venn diagram that I drew for the situation:
View attachment 3567
Is this accurate?

From this it would have to follow that X and G are different right?

From that, I believe it also follows that there is some M that is not X (it is G). Thus, the 3rd statement is true? If the answer is no, then it seems like I'm wrong, but could someone please point out where I made the mistake? It seems fine to me :/
Your M circle is bigger than the X circle. This is an assumption your making. We don't know that there are M that aren't X.... Hence making the third statement NO.
 

DCA

Member
Ahh ok. Thanks!

I was thinking that since there is some G that is not M, then X and G cannot be same since all X is M, and only some G is M.

And also another q: if all of the X is M, then M is either same size or bigger than X right?
 

nb

Awesome Member
Ahh ok. Thanks!

I was thinking that since there is some G that is not M, then X and G cannot be same since all X is M, and only some G is M.

And also another q: if all of the X is M, then M is either same size or bigger than X right?
Correct. But we would draw that as bigger as we don't know for sure if it is the same size.
 

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
Third option was NO because you cannot assume that there indeed exists Musc which are not Xanth...
Similarly, you cannot assume that costumers at the cinema actually liked thriller movies...
There is a difference on how the question stems are worded.

In your example it says Musc which are not Xanth have yellow eyes - a general statement.
The other one says All the customers at the cinema *who liked* thriller movies ... - note the past tense which indicates they existed.

For example, compare "people who drive blindfolded are idiots" with "people at that gathering who drove blindfolded were idiots".
 

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whys

Regular Member™
There is a difference on how the question stems are worded.

In your example it says Musc which are not Xanth have yellow eyes - a general statement.
The other one says All the customers at the cinema *who liked* thriller movies ... - note the past tense which indicates they existed.

For example, compare "people who drive blindfolded are idiots" with "people at that gathering who drove blindfolded were idiots".
Oh wow, the way you worded it makes so much sense! Thank you for pointing that out, it was right under my nose but I couldn't figure it out.
 

nb

Awesome Member
There is a difference on how the question stems are worded.

In your example it says Musc which are not Xanth have yellow eyes - a general statement.
The other one says All the customers at the cinema *who liked* thriller movies ... - note the past tense which indicates they existed.

For example, compare "people who drive blindfolded are idiots" with "people at that gathering who drove blindfolded were idiots".
wow. Thank you so much ! You have really cleared it up for me!!
 

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nb

Awesome Member
This is incorrect. I have emailed the official UCAT consortium and they have given me a response.
Essentially, my first question asked them if all donkeys are black, can we say some donkeys are black?
They said NO, because some does not include 100%.

Second question was regarding not all. Not all actually implies some and CANNOT include zero. Not all is the same thing as some.
I really hope this helps clear all your doubts. Enjoy :)
response dm.PNG
 

whys

Regular Member™
This is incorrect. I have emailed the official UCAT consortium and they have given me a response.
Essentially, my first question asked them if all donkeys are black, can we say some donkeys are black?
They said NO, because some does not include 100%.

Second question was regarding not all. Not all actually implies some and CANNOT include zero. Not all is the same thing as some.
I really hope this helps clear all your doubts. Enjoy :)
View attachment 3572
You really went all out, cheers mate. 👊

EDIT: this would follow that 'All X are Y' means you cannot conclude that 'Some X are Y'. Some = not all, and both of them are an element of [1,all).
 

cocodreams

Regular Member
This is incorrect. I have emailed the official UCAT consortium and they have given me a response.
Essentially, my first question asked them if all donkeys are black, can we say some donkeys are black?
They said NO, because some does not include 100%.

Second question was regarding not all. Not all actually implies some and CANNOT include zero. Not all is the same thing as some.
I really hope this helps clear all your doubts. Enjoy :)
View attachment 3572
thank you so much!

Do 'many' and 'few' have any specific definitions? Will few be less than many or is always a 'no' in syllogisms?
 

cocodreams

Regular Member
1593564919289.png
Is it just me or is this explanation weird. I put down 'no' for the second part and it marked me wrong, whereas in the solution it says 'does not follow'??
 

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