Choosing Between Universities and Offers

[Crow]

Is it worth taking a gap year and re sit ucat for that purpose?

I'm not following you - for what purpose, exactly?

I'll refer you to this post, which I agree with: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

Personally I don't see the value in taking a gap year solely to try and improve your ATAR and UCAT. There are many worthwhile reasons to take a gap year but I don't think that is one of them, unless you have other "better" reasons to go with it.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Is it worth taking a gap year and re sit ucat for that purpose?

I’m with Crow in that I don’t really understand the reasoning behind this. Usually, when answering these questions, we expect a little more info (and, tbh, for the person to actually have some offers on the table so we aren’t dealing in hypotheticals).

What motivations are there involved in this decision making?
Degree length?
Cost?
Location?
BMP vs CSP?
Provisional vs Direct?

None of the above? Something different?

 

[kitkat1]

Hello! i was hoping someone could advise me on what to what to preference first out of WSU and JMP (ive preferred newcastle over une). in terms of travel, by public transport, wsu would be 2.5 hours away from home and uon would be 3.5 hours so id have to move closer to uni if i was to get in to any of them (the 2.5 hours to wsu would not be manageable on a frequent basis right?) , my family live in sydney but i have very close family in newcastle as well, so im not sure what else to look at when picking my first preference. i guess i could compare the areas close to wsu, uon, une if i was to stay on campus/close to campus, so does anyone who is currently staying close to either of those unis or anyone at all have any advice?! thanks everyone!!

hey everyone! i apologise if this is annoying but i still haven't been able to find much advice online about this just checking again if anyone had any suggestions (all good if not )

 

[Crow]

hey everyone! i apologise if this is annoying but i still haven't been able to find much advice online about this just checking again if anyone had any suggestions (all good if not )

This one seems like it will come down to personal preference. I would definitely not consider 2.5 hours travel to uni as feasible on a daily basis, but you could return home on weekends etc if you were at WSU. I will point out that if you get JMP then you could end up at Armidale rather than UON, so that might make you more inclined to preference WSU higher up? I would also strongly recommend you check out the clinical sites for each of JMP and WSU - you should note that if you were at UON for your preclinical years, this doesn't mean you will be based at Newcastle for the entire duration of your degree. I suspect the same applies with WSU but I'm not from NSW and don't know the clinical sites for either uni - I'm sure the information is available on the respective websites and if not, we have plenty of people on here that could help you out with that.

 

[kitkat1]

This one seems like it will come down to personal preference. I would definitely not consider 2.5 hours travel to uni as feasible on a daily basis, but you could return home on weekends etc if you were at WSU. I will point out that if you get JMP then you could end up at Armidale rather than UON, so that might make you more inclined to preference WSU higher up? I would also strongly recommend you check out the clinical sites for each of JMP and WSU - you should note that if you were at UON for your preclinical years, this doesn't mean you will be based at Newcastle for the entire duration of your degree. I suspect the same applies with WSU but I'm not from NSW and don't know the clinical sites for either uni - I'm sure the information is available on the respective websites and if not, we have plenty of people on here that could help you out with that.

thank you for your reply! yes i would probably come back back on weekends and right i should definitely check out the clinical sites to see which locations they are at, that would help with my preferencing, thank you so much

 

[Mana]

While there is a difference between a 2.5 hour commute and a 3.5 hour commute I am a bit unclear as to your actual living situation - would you be living with parents or living with those family friends in Newcastle if you were to get those offers? While Sydney is big and is getting bigger a 2.5 hour commute is literally from one end of the city to the other and then some (if you are travelling by car); if your parents live in Sydney and you were to live with them then the commute would be much shorter. On the other hand, if you are at least 2.5 hours from any university then by almost all measures you will need to move to be closer to your university as this length of commute is not really feasible for any student studying on campus full time.

The clinical sites will also tend very much to change where you live as you will usually be assigned to specific hospitals or hospital networks, of which a very real possibility for either university is that they would be outside the metropolitan areas of Sydney or Newcastle/Armidale. Given the distances involved, if you are placed at these centres you will also very likely have to move your residence at least for the duration of those placements.

 

[kitkat1]

While there is a difference between a 2.5 hour commute and a 3.5 hour commute I am a bit unclear as to your actual living situation - would you be living with parents or living with those family friends in Newcastle if you were to get those offers? While Sydney is big and is getting bigger a 2.5 hour commute is literally from one end of the city to the other and then some (if you are travelling by car); if your parents live in Sydney and you were to live with them then the commute would be much shorter. On the other hand, if you are at least 2.5 hours from any university then by almost all measures you will need to move to be closer to your university as this length of commute is not really feasible for any student studying on campus full time.

The clinical sites will also tend very much to change where you live as you will usually be assigned to specific hospitals or hospital networks, of which a very real possibility for either university is that they would be outside the metropolitan areas of Sydney or Newcastle/Armidale. Given the distances involved, if you are placed at these centres you will also very likely have to move your residence at least for the duration of those placements.

thank you so much for the information! my parents live in sydney (2.5 hrs away from wsu by train), so if i was offered a place at either campus it would be best to move and live alone, in terms of learning styles and course itself there is not much different right? if so i think i will look up the locations of clinical placement to help me pick my preference

 

[Hulk123]

Hi everyone just needed some advice. I got an interview offer for both dent and medicine at Adelaide. The Dent interview is 4 days before the Med interview. Personally medicine is a course I am highly determined to study: dent was like a back up if I don’t get into med then I can still immerse myself in the health sector and dent is something I find interesting but I’m much much more passionate about medicine. My concern is that when they ask questions for my dent interview like what are my motivations. My experiences and anecdotes are all those that made me realise my passion for med, not for dentistry. And being honest to myself, my motivation to do dent while does exist, is lower than my motivation to do Med. I’m just confused if doing two interviews at the same institution is a bad idea? Especially if the ‘back-up’ degree interview is before the Med interview. Anyone have any advice please, would be much appreciated!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hi everyone just needed some advice. I got an interview offer for both dent and medicine at Adelaide. The Dent interview is 4 days before the Med interview. Personally medicine is a course I am highly determined to study: dent was like a back up if I don’t get into med then I can still immerse myself in the health sector and dent is something I find interesting but I’m much much more passionate about medicine. My concern is that when they ask questions for my dent interview like what are my motivations. My experiences and anecdotes are all those that made me realise my passion for med, not for dentistry. And being honest to myself, my motivation to do dent while does exist, is lower than my motivation to do Med. I’m just confused if doing two interviews at the same institution is a bad idea? Especially if the ‘back-up’ degree interview is before the Med interview. Anyone have any advice please, would be much appreciated!

From a purely logistical point of view, the Med interviewers will be different to the Dent interviewers and it won’t be detrimental to your chances at either to do both (in fact, it’s incredibly common).

I’d think doing the Dent interview before the Med one would be hugely helpful to give you an idea of what to expect, how you perform in those kind of scenarios, etc. And you can make any adjustments required before the more high stakes (for you) Med interview.

As for motivations, I can’t help you with that part.

 

[Hulk123]

From a purely logistical point of view, the Med interviewers will be different to the Dent interviewers and it won’t be detrimental to your chances at either to do both (in fact, it’s incredibly common).

I’d think doing the Dent interview before the Med one would be hugely helpful to give you an idea of what to expect, how you perform in those kind of scenarios, etc. And you can make any adjustments required before the more high stakes (for you) Med interview.

As for motivations, I can’t help you with that part.

That helps so much thank you LMG!

 

[TKAO]

Hi everyone just needed some advice. I got an interview offer for both dent and medicine at Adelaide. The Dent interview is 4 days before the Med interview. Personally medicine is a course I am highly determined to study: dent was like a back up if I don’t get into med then I can still immerse myself in the health sector and dent is something I find interesting but I’m much much more passionate about medicine. My concern is that when they ask questions for my dent interview like what are my motivations. My experiences and anecdotes are all those that made me realise my passion for med, not for dentistry. And being honest to myself, my motivation to do dent while does exist, is lower than my motivation to do Med. I’m just confused if doing two interviews at the same institution is a bad idea? Especially if the ‘back-up’ degree interview is before the Med interview. Anyone have any advice please, would be much appreciated!

I would say that the med and dent interviews at UAdel are significantly different. Obviously I can't tell you anything because of the NDA, but I can say that I managed to get a UAdel CSP and a UAdel dent nothing (though I did preference med above dent and I got my med offer second round). I did my dent interview after my med interview and I was actually really happy I did that because I walked out of the dent interview knowing I screwed up badly and that might have played in my mind if I had done it first instead of the med one.

 

[pickledpumperni]

Hi everyone, I just received a 99.90 atar the other day so will be eligible for melbourne chancellor's and am pretty confident that I'll receive a griffith gold coast offer (stuffed up ucat). I live in sydney so I'll have to move interstate either way but I'm torn over which to choose.

Melbourne Pros/ Griffith Cons
- if I don't manage an internship in NSW after graduation, I'd rather be stuck in melbourne than in queensland
- chancellor's scholarship pays for whole undergrad degree + living allowance. For Griffith I would pay for the degree and relocation costs myself
- excited by the prospect of having a 'relaxed' science degree where I can learn for the sake of enjoyment and pursue interests

Melbourne Cons/Griffith Pros
- chance that I'll get bonded at Griffith (which I actually don't really mind)
- Melbourne is a longer degree
- perhaps my biggest concern is the daunting prospect of having to pass the MMI at the end of 3rd year.

While I know that university 'prestige' is pretty much a non-factor, I have also heard that teaching quality at griffith is a bit hit and miss. Is this true? (and if it is- to what extent?) I'm concerned that this might affect my performance as an actual doctor, making intern/resident years harder and affecting my going into a specialty. Would going to griffith at all affect my ability to specialise?

Thanks in advance

 

[Cal]

Hi everyone, I just received a 99.90 atar the other day so will be eligible for melbourne chancellor's and am pretty confident that I'll receive a griffith gold coast offer (stuffed up ucat). I live in sydney so I'll have to move interstate either way but I'm torn over which to choose.

Melbourne Pros/ Griffith Cons
- if I don't manage an internship in NSW after graduation, I'd rather be stuck in melbourne than in queensland
- chancellor's scholarship pays for whole undergrad degree + living allowance. For Griffith I would pay for the degree and relocation costs myself
- excited by the prospect of having a 'relaxed' science degree where I can learn for the sake of enjoyment and pursue interests

Melbourne Cons/Griffith Pros
- chance that I'll get bonded at Griffith (which I actually don't really mind)
- Melbourne is a longer degree
- perhaps my biggest concern is the daunting prospect of having to pass the MMI at the end of 3rd year.

While I know that university 'prestige' is pretty much a non-factor, I have also heard that teaching quality at griffith is a bit hit and miss. Is this true? (and if it is- to what extent?) I'm concerned that this might affect my performance as an actual doctor, making intern/resident years harder and affecting my going into a specialty. Would going to griffith at all affect my ability to specialise?

Thanks in advance

First of all, I think since you have to move away for both, and one is guaranteed entry, while the other isn't, I think the better choice is the griffith univeristy in terms of Reliability, and cost (Griffith will be cheaper living as well). While I can't comment on the quality of teaching at griffith, Crow may be able to add something here, I can pretty much guarantee that the university you go to for medicine (as long as it is a CSP) won't impact your ability to get an internship. I doubt very much that there would be much of a difference in quality of doctors coming out of med schools, especially since (from my understanding) most of the learning of how to "be a doctor" is learnt post graduation. So I don' think something as trivial as specialization chances should even be considered as a factor of choice in the Med school you attend, especially considering that will be many years down the track.

In my opinion the main factors are Length of degree, cost of degree, likelihood of becoming a doctor, and location of the degree (cost of living/environment).

But as always it is personal preference, and if you personally feel like prestige is important (which it isn't practically) then you can make that a bigger factor in your decision; though I personally wouldn't.

In the end, pick what one you think you will enjoy the most, and will bode best for you as you travel through med school.

Hope this helps!

 

[pickledpumperni]

First of all, I think since you have to move away for both, and one is guaranteed entry, while the other isn't, I think the better choice is the griffith univeristy in terms of Reliability, and cost (Griffith will be cheaper living as well). While I can't comment on the quality of teaching at griffith, Crow may be able to add something here, I can pretty much guarantee that the university you go to for medicine (as long as it is a CSP) won't impact your ability to get an internship. I doubt very much that there would be much of a difference in quality of doctors coming out of med schools, especially since (from my understanding) most of the learning of how to "be a doctor" is learnt post graduation. So I don' think something as trivial as specialization chances should even be considered as a factor of choice in the Med school you attend, especially considering that will be many years down the track.

In my opinion the main factors are Length of degree, cost of degree, likelihood of becoming a doctor, and location of the degree (cost of living/environment).

But as always it is personal preference, and if you personally feel like prestige is important (which it isn't practically) then you can make that a bigger factor in your decision; though I personally wouldn't.

In the end, pick what one you think you will enjoy the most, and will bode best for you as you travel through med school.

Hope this helps!

Thanks!

So just clarifying that you think that not having to pass an interview at Griffith outweighs the fact that it is 20K more expensive?

 

[Crow]

Thanks!

So just clarifying that you think that not having to pass an interview at Griffith outweighs the fact that it is 20K more expensive?

It’s 20k more expensive but you graduate on a minimum 70k a year salary as an intern a year earlier. Not to mention that 20k is on HECS and so you aren’t obligated to pay it off until you start working.

 

[pickledpumperni]

It’s 20k more expensive but you graduate on a minimum 70k a year salary as an intern a year earlier. Not to mention that 20k is on HECS and so you aren’t obligated to pay it off until you start working.

Oh ok got it, that makes sense.

 

[Crow]

pickledpumperni I’ve just read your original post and can comment on quality of teaching at Griffith to some extent:

The undergraduate component will mostly have excellent teachers - the courses are very structured and the convenors have mostly been teaching the same courses for a long time so they know what they’re doing and get great reviews.

The teaching in the MD is very hit and miss aside from anatomy and pathology which are both reliably excellent. I quite early in the MD resigned myself to the fact that independent learning is a cornerstone of medicine and quickly became accustomed to teaching myself a lot of the content. I obviously haven’t attended another medical school but my impression is that any medical student (and in particular those in a graduate entry degree) need to be able to learn themselves and no uni will formally teach you everything you need to know.

That said, Griffith was woeful for teaching 2nd year for me this year - barely any scheduled classes outside of anatomy or pathology - and I’m unsure how much of this can be attributed to COVID vs that’s just how they do things. First year was a lot better and third and fourth year are based full time in the hospital anyways.

Basically I don’t think “teaching quality” should factor too heavily into your decision here as it’s mostly not so bad at Griffith and you’re going to need to figure out how to learn independently one way or another if you want to succeed in a medical career anyways.

 

[pickledpumperni]

Awesome, thanks so much for the advice. Looks like I'm headed to the gold coast next year! (provided the cutoff doesn't wildly jump to 99.95)

 

[Crow]

Awesome, thanks so much for the advice. Looks like I'm headed to the gold coast next year! (provided the cutoff doesn't wildly jump to 99.95)

You’ve still got a fair bit of time to decide so it’s always worth seeking out a second opinion - I’m not necessarily in the pro-Griffith camp for your situation but was just providing you with information.

Since the bonded scheme changed to a 3 year commitment this makes the stakes a lot higher and is something you should read into and consider before coming to a decision (not to say you haven’t already done this, but always worth pointing out!).

If you ultimately wish to end up back in Sydney, then getting a bonded spot at Griffith would mean it would likely take you at least 9 years to return after you’ve completed the 6 years of study at uni, internship and your 1.5 years of pre-fellowship ROS. Then you’d have to do another 1.5 years minimum ROS post-fellowship. Alternatively you could do all 3 years ROS post-fellowship but you’d then have to leave Sydney again and naturally this can interfere with your career/life planning.

All hypothetical of course but just information that needs to be weighed up beforehand! I definitely wouldn’t have thought all of this over as a school-leaver at that age.

 

[ucatboy]

Hi everyone, I just received a 99.90 atar the other day so will be eligible for melbourne chancellor's and am pretty confident that I'll receive a griffith gold coast offer (stuffed up ucat). I live in sydney so I'll have to move interstate either way but I'm torn over which to choose.

Melbourne Pros/ Griffith Cons
- if I don't manage an internship in NSW after graduation, I'd rather be stuck in melbourne than in queensland
- chancellor's scholarship pays for whole undergrad degree + living allowance. For Griffith I would pay for the degree and relocation costs myself
- excited by the prospect of having a 'relaxed' science degree where I can learn for the sake of enjoyment and pursue interests

Melbourne Cons/Griffith Pros
- chance that I'll get bonded at Griffith (which I actually don't really mind)
- Melbourne is a longer degree
- perhaps my biggest concern is the daunting prospect of having to pass the MMI at the end of 3rd year.

While I know that university 'prestige' is pretty much a non-factor, I have also heard that teaching quality at griffith is a bit hit and miss. Is this true? (and if it is- to what extent?) I'm concerned that this might affect my performance as an actual doctor, making intern/resident years harder and affecting my going into a specialty. Would going to griffith at all affect my ability to specialise?

Thanks in advance

I'm gonna go against the grain here and suggest you seriously consider UniMelb between the two options you're presented. Yes, the course is longer, and I would've recommended against it had you been given the choice between a 5-year and 7-year course, but Griffith is only one year shorter. As for being able to work one year earlier and make 60k, the irony is that the Chancellor's Scholarship offers 3 years' of fee remission (~$30,000) and 3 years' of $10,000 p.a. as an interstate student. That's effectively the same as what working one year as an intern gives (possibly more if you deduct tax), and the money comes at a time you'll need it most i.e. during your university years where you're unlikely to be able to fully support yourself.

You also mention that if you are unsuccessful in returning to NSW (a very real possibility), you'd rather stay in Victoria. That's an important consideration unique to you that shouldn't be overlooked, as it's highly likely you'll be "stuck" in the state where you complete your degree. As for the MMI you have to pass in Year 3, I wouldn't stress about it, you aren't competing with your peers for a place but rather meeting minimum requirements as a medical student i.e. social skills and the like. Rumours are that at most 1-2 students don't manage to pass every year, it's definitely not like the undergraduate medical interview you're used to.

Similar deal with the possibility of receiving a bonded place at Griffith - as Crow mentions above, it could delay your return to NSW and interfere with other parts of your life and career. Avoiding a bonded spot also requires grinding during the first two years at Griffith so that you don't end up in the bottom 30%, and you've also mentioned that you'd prefer a chill and laid back approach to your undergrad (which UniMelb offers).

All in all, you've got plenty of time to make a choice so don't stress, but definitely think it through, either option has their positives and negatives, it's just a matter of which matter the most to you.