How do you afford to go to Bond?

Discussion in 'Bond University' started by kimberley15, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    As per a million discussions before, the COAG agreement does not give you insurance as an FFP student for an internship. Nobody disputes the fact that not one domestic FFP has gone without an internship, TO DATE. What you CAN'T guarantee is that will continue. For people with a whole lot of luxurious financial security, that's actually not a bother. You're clearly very fortunate to have parents who can afford the gamble. For somebody else, considering potential grave financial loss, one would feel quite a bit better if that theoretical threat of having the rug pulled out from underneath you wasn't there. Frame it any way you want, as the COAG agreement stands, taking a domestic FFP is a gamble. The odds are just a great deal higher for those who go into critical debt to pay for a place. Caveat emptor.
     
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  2. Turkey

    Turkey New Member

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    Is it more difficult to find an internship as a FFP student then? Or is it just that the COAg cannot guarantee you an internship?
    Thanks, I don't know much about internships hehe
     
  3. LMG!

    LMG! Moderator (UTAS MBBS) Most Helpful Member and Staff Member of the Year 2017-2018

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    I think, to date, the situation has been that all domestic FFP students have received internships with the same degree of 'difficulty' as CSP/BMP students (ie, based on whatever system is used in that state for preferencing). However, there is no guarantee of an internship if you're an FFP student, so if/when supply outstrips demand*, it'll be those with FFP spots that lose out first.

    *Supply already outstrips demand, but this has largely been managed to date by International students heading home, etc, for internships, I believe.
     
  4. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    I can point you to this post to get the picture of current & past 10 years
    > [Chart] Aus Medical Grads & Internships

    If you want to know the situation 5-6 years from now you have to form your own judgment, unlikely anyone can give you a concrete answer. As for the COAg guarantee there have been talks of not enough SA internships for SA grads this year. Since there's no domestic FFPs in SA it's the CSP grads there who will be affected. They will have to search for internships in other states and they will be ranked (I believe) lower than FFPs of these other states.

    Iow FFPs are at higher risks than CSPs, but CSPs in states with no FFPs can be at risk too.
     
  5. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    Ah, no. That is the whole point: the COAG agreement guaranteed that the states will provide internships to all CSPs. That guarantee does NOT extend to FFPs. I think you guys are not seeing the difference between the yearly priority lists deemed by each state (which currently include FFPs as guaranteed), and the bigger COAG agreement which governs and underpins what the states are allowed to do with those yearly lists.
     
  6. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    I understand that^ perfectly well. The point I'm highlighting is, the NSW gov for example is not responsible for SA's CSP grads. If it comes to this year the SA gov not providing enough for its CSP grads some of them will need to obtain internships in say NSW. And the NSW gov is not going to revise its priority order to rank SA CSPs higher than NSW FFPs.
     
  7. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    States have always been responsible for their grads and only their grads. The hypothetical scenario you describe and attribute to the COAG agreement, wherein SA CSPs may potentially not be offered an SA internship, is actually the OPPOSITE of what the COAG agreement offers. The bit I have bolded there in your quote above will NOT happen, as per the COAG agreement. That is what you do not seem to be following.
     
  8. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    That's what I'll have to wait see whether it happens, as I saw in this link > Intern Crisis 2016 - Flinders Medical Students' Society

    "In 2018 more than 1/5th of SA grads will miss out on an internship, 45% of them will be domestic (CSP) students". (This has been published in the press too just that I can no longer find it).

    And this > South Australia reneges on medical intern places agreement
    "Professor Owler said it now appears that South Australia is going to breach this agreement, with projections suggesting that 22 domestic CSP graduates will miss out on internships in 2017, and up to 39 will miss out in 2018."
     
  9. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    Seems like a class action waiting to happen, should the state government breach its part of the agreement.
     
  10. B2

    B2 Bond MD II

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    To clear all confusion, currently all local Medical Students in QLD are guaranteed an internship by the QLD government. This means that all Bond graduates are currently guaranteed internships.
     
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  11. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    That's true, not only for QLD but also NSW & WA. However the matter to be wary of is a state gov guarantee (for CSP+FFP) is not as strong as the COAG guarantee for CSP, and can be altered/withdrawn from FFPs at anytime. The COAG guarantee is a signed agreement with the federal gov so is supposed to be binding (although ironically it won't stop a state gov from reneging as alleged for SA).
     
  12. B2

    B2 Bond MD II

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    Yes agreed that it can be withdrawn at any time, but as long as the guarantee is in place, it is still upheld which is currently the case.
     
  13. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    The "guarantee" for FFPs you refer to just pertains to the allocation priority list that is revised every year. It is also worth noting that these priority lists have historically changed over time: they are not static documents. FFPs have no foot to stand on, should their "guarantee" of an internship be removed, without warning or consultation - this is the (rather sizeable) gamble you take when you sign on for one.
     
  14. A1

    A1 Admissions Speculator Moderator

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    For WA it is more than the priority list. The WA Health Minister is on record saying the gov commits to providing internships to all domestic graduates, which implies including Notre Dame Fremantle FFPs.
     
  15. B2

    B2 Bond MD II

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    Its the same for Queensland if I'm not mistaken ?
     
  16. chinaski

    chinaski Regular Member

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    The priority list is simply a document that reflects that current Government's "commitments". Thing is, governments come and go, and commitments change over time (you'd be a little naive to bank much on the promises of a politician!). They are far from set in stone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  17. neverknow

    neverknow New Member

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    Hi, first of all I would like to declare that this guide is merely a basis of research I have conducted. I am a 17 year old high school student who will graduate in 2019 from NSW. If it is not obvious yet, I want to get into med.

    Bond Uni is expensive, i.e. out of reach for the common person.


    According to Bond Uni's website, the cost for medicine for individuals starting in 2019 is $27,960 a semester for 14 semesters.

    The Degree lasts for 4 years and 8 months. 3 semesters/year for 4 years and 2 semesters in the 5th year.

    Now comes the part of actually affording these costs.

    $27,960*14= $391,440

    We will round that up to $400,000 (To accommodate for people starting in the future and any possible inflation rates)

    So basically, you need to pay $400,000 (remember this is hypothetical).

    FEE-HELP | StudyAssist

    If you take a look at that website, FEE-HELP allows you to accumulate $150,000 in loans. If you are doing a medicine degree, you will start earning some money after your 5 years finish (as long as there isn't an internship crisis with FFP Domestic Students).

    This allows us to take this $150,000 out of the grand $400,000. Since you can simply treat that as a turbocharged HECS loan.

    $250,000 left, still....

    For people not based of Queensland. You need to live in Queensland for at least 4 years and 8 months.

    On campus accommodation

    Taking a look at this, this is probably the cheapest accommodation in that area and has many benefits.

    The cheapest option is $3000/semester. We will use this. $3000*14=$42000

    We will push that up-to $50,000 (in case it goes up, remember this is hypothetical).

    The money you need to pay is $300,000.

    Food, Clothes, Groceries, Phone Plans, Family visits, etc... are also expenses.
    Lets say a person has a lot of self-control and learns to live on $200 a week besides rent, its not too hard.

    Counting these expenses over 4 years and 8 months, not taking into account semester breaks or anything, it goes to $50,000.

    We will push that up to $55,000 in case a person spends more than they planned to.


    Our final loan amount is $350,000. This is quite an amount.

    A lot of people are eligible for Youth Allowance, this is a form of "income" for the person stuck in these loans.

    The standard Youth Allowance rates for someone living away from home are ~$210 a week. Your Youth Allowance starts when you are 18 or when you move to live and study at bond.

    Coming off a few loose calculations, the total amount you will receive from Youth Allowance throughout the duration off your degree should amass to ~$55,000

    Beware of Youth Allowance decreasing when a person is earning more than a certain amount. However, with the proper documentation, this amount should stay constant. However, for the purpose of this post, we will halve the Youth Allowance payment. Thus, the Youth Allowance will only add $25,000 onto the loan.

    Thus, this leaves us a Loan of around $320,000.


    There is 14 semesters.
    Each semester will cost you around $22,900.

    YEAR 1,2,3,4:

    $69,000/Year

    YEAR 5:

    $46,000


    Going to Bond basically means you need to be earning close to a six-figure income which is way more than the average Australian whilst studying full-time in one of the hardest degree in the world.

    Now I am not too familiar with tax on payments or anything off that sort.

    According to the 2019 income tax calculator. A person with a gross income (before tax) of $90,000 will get a net (after tax) income of $69,000 or be earning $1350/week after tax.

    Lets say you want to make this much, you need to find work. Possibly work two part-time/casual jobs to accommodate yourself. You will also want to earn more than $1350 in order to be able to take leaves and time off for study.

    This will no doubt require a high-level of organisation and commitment.

    SCENARIO:

    You work 5 Hours a day every weekday earning ~$25/Hour.
    Possible options can include an UberEats, MenuLog, etc. Driver OR A security guard. These jobs are pretty flexible and easy to make money off.

    And, you work at least 15 Hours at $25/Hour on the weekends.

    This is essentially 56-60 Hours a week and will lead to a weekly income of $1400.

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    Other factors to consider is the time during holidays and the time before you start University. You will have to hustle and work as much as you can during the long 2-3month break you get after HSC. As that will significantly lower your debt afterwards.


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    Now, the reason behind this post.

    I planned that scenario because I thought it would be possible.

    Then you think to yourself, if you were that desperate for medicine, wouldn't you have studied and gotten there when it was easier during Year 12.

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not responsible if you end up sinking in debt or whatever.

    I am sorry if there is any mistakes, I haven't edited this and wrote this in the spur of the moment.

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    Now you decide, Can you afford Bond Uni Medicine?
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    DISCLAIMER: I'm not responsible if you end up sinking in debt or whatever.

    I am sorry if there is any mistakes, I haven't edited this and wrote this in the spur of the moment.
     
  18. LMG!

    LMG! Moderator (UTAS MBBS) Most Helpful Member and Staff Member of the Year 2017-2018

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    New post moved to this thread (above), for those interested.
     

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