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Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
Hi all. I'm thinking of applying to Macquarie's 2 year clinical sciences program and I have several concerns:
1-Are the fees the same as in public unis(CSP)?
2-Can I apply for graduate medicine at all australian postgrad med schools at the end of the 2nd year?
3-Since it's an accelerated degree, will the workload be too much(not enough time to prepare for gamsat, not enough free time to enjoy with friends/family/pets)?
It would be great if someone could give their thoughts on this
1) Yes it's CSP for Macquarie undergrad.

2) See this post > Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

I'm certain now that this course is run in two years of 3 Sessions/semesters each, the last being Session 3 of Y2. Say you start next year 2020 the Y2S3 will be from Dec 2021 to Jan 2022, as such you are *not* eligible to apply in 2021 (most GEMSAS schools require it completed by 31 Dec the year you apply).

3) The workload seems regular since it's accelerated by adding two Session 3s rather than squeezing more units into the sessions.
 

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Ian Naga

Lurker
2) See this post > Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

I'm certain now that this course is run in two years of 3 Sessions/semesters each, the last being Session 3 of Y2. Say you start next year 2020 the Y2S3 will be from Dec 2021 to Jan 2022, as such you are *not* eligible to apply in 2021 (most GEMSAS schools require it completed by 31 Dec the year you apply).
This was the reply I received a few months ago when I inquired on behalf of someone in the Common Pitfalls thread about the finish time of this degree. More details here: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank you for your email.
Students enrolled in the Bachelor of Clinical Science will complete their studies before the 31st December, so this should not be an issue for you in terms of applying for GEM and being able to commence the year after completing this degree.
Please reach out if you have any further questions,
Cara

Dr Cara Hildreth
Senior Lecturer
Department of Biomedical Sciences | Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences
Ground Floor, F10A Building
2 Technology Place
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
T: +61 2 9850 2721 | F: +61 2 9812 3600
M: + 61 4## ### ### | mq.edu.au
 

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
This was the reply I received a few months ago when I inquired on behalf of someone in the Common Pitfalls thread about the finish time of this degree. More details here: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thank you for your email.
Students enrolled in the Bachelor of Clinical Science will complete their studies before the 31st December
It would be good of Macquarie to publish the enrolment plan for this course to be convincing.

Because quoted from Macq's website: "This fast-tracked course uses Macquarie’s two regular sessions, as well as two shorter periods between these sessions, to complete a three-year bachelor qualification in only two years."

There's only one shorter period, the 2-month session 3 (vs regular 4-month sessions 1&2), between Y1 and Y2. Where does the school fit the 2nd shorter period in if not Y2ses3 ?
 

Ian Naga

Lurker
It would be good of Macquarie to publish the enrolment plan for this course to be convincing.
This was the reason I emailed Cara (Program Coordinator). Please feel free to email her and ask them to clarify this on their website.
Sorry I really don't have time nowadays.
As reference, please find below partly dedacted email I sent her:
>>>>>>>
If someone is applying to the accelerated BClinSci degree to allow them to apply to Graduate Entry medicine (GEM), can you please clarify the degree completion time. I am a bit worried that GEM universities don't allow if the degree is completed after Dec 31st of the year. Please see this here:

>>>>>>>
https://www.notredame.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/31213/Medicine-International-Admissions-Guide.pdf

The following degrees may also be used as qualifying degrees, subject to the conditions stated:
Accelerated degrees: An accelerated degree consists of three trimesters per year completed in two years. Applicants in their final year of an accelerated degree must be due to complete their degree by 31 December YYYY. Where an accelerated degree is later completed as a standard duration undergraduate degree, the most recent three years of study will be used in the GPA calculation.
>>>>

I was wondering when this 2 year degree finishes. If it finishes after Dec 31st, is there any way to complete it by Dec 31st? Thanks
>>>>>>>
 

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A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
There's only one shorter period, the 2-month session 3 (vs regular 4-month sessions 1&2), between Y1 and Y2. Where does the school fit the 2nd shorter period in if not Y2ses3 ?
After a little digging it appears this school doesn't use the same Ses-3 as others at Macquarie. Instead they set up two short teaching periods MED0 (6week Jan-Feb) and MED3 (5week July). The enrolment plan is likely S1-Med3-S2-Med0-S1-Med3-S2, so will complete before 31-Dec of Y2.

The 16week lot of Med3+Med0+Med3 replaces one lot of 26week S1+S2, there's likely overloading somewhere to compensate for the 10 weeks short.
 

REGULAR JOE

Regular Member
Lowest we have seen on MSO was a 83%ile interstate non-rural in 2017, which was Curtin's first intake so maybe not as many applied.
Lowest in 2018 was also 83%ile but did not indicate whether rural or EAS. Lowest 2019 was 86%ile but coupled with 99.90.
Shouldn't we add in the fact the change from UMAT to UCAT? Because I've seen in the previous years for JMP, even UMAT %tiles in the 70s received invites, but this year the cutoff was 90th%tile
 

TKAO

crossed fingers for ATAR
Gold Star Winner
Shouldn't we add in the fact the change from UMAT to UCAT? Because I've seen in the previous years for JMP, even UMAT %tiles in the 70s received invites, but this year the cutoff was 90th%tile
That was down to a change of how they selected using UMAT. Before, JMP used a 50/50/50 rule to cull applicants, before ranking them off their section 1 score for an invite. This would mean that someone with a high section 1 score but flat 50/50 on S2 and S3 could get invites, which is why 70s were invited. This year they changed it to aggregate and also had not rule to cull initial applicants, raising the UCAT cutoff significantly. Curtin has always used an aggregate UMAT after a 50/50/50 cull rule (correct me if I'm wrong), so if anything the cutoffs will increase. In saying that, the way they handled the backend processing of UMAT scores in previous years skewed offers towards those that had higher UMATs, but they have corrected that now so the change may be indeterminate.
 

Mana

there are no stupid questions, only people
Administrator
Percentiles are a measure of how well you did compared to the cohort, so if there is a change from 70%ile to 90%ile cutoff, it's not because of a change from UMAT to UCAT, unless there are specific minimum cutoff scores in particular sections.
 

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LMG!

Moderator
Most Helpful Member and Staff Member of the Year 2017-2018
Percentiles are a measure of how well you did compared to the cohort, so if there is a change from 70%ile to 90%ile cutoff, it's not because of a change from UMAT to UCAT, unless there are specific minimum cutoff scores in particular sections.
Hi Mana, the JMP change from less than 70th (UMAT) to 90th (UCAT) %ile has been attributed (by us!) to the removal of the 50/50/50 previously needed to be eligible via UMAT. Curtin used to do something similar. I think that’s what’s being referenced here.
 

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
Shouldn't we add in the fact the change from UMAT to UCAT? Because I've seen in the previous years for JMP, even UMAT %tiles in the 70s received invites, but this year the cutoff was 90th%tile
Adding to what TKAO has written, opposite to this case^ would be someone with 55/80/80 = 100%ile but would *not* have got a JMP invite due to below the S1=58+ selection. If you wanted to use UMAT percentile as the measure for JMP it must be the S1 percentile not Overall.

Btw 58 was 80ish S1 %ile, removing the 50/50 rule would push it up as there would be more applicants in contention. It was why I posted a few times the best prediction for JMP this year was Adelaide's last year cutoff of 89%ile. Turned out very close.
 

REGULAR JOE

Regular Member
I just saw from the USYD admissions guide for MD that the bachelor degree has to be at least 3 years FTE. Does this mean Macquarie's 2 year degree is not eligible?
 

Crow

Moderator Band
Moderator
I just saw from the USYD admissions guide for MD that the bachelor degree has to be at least 3 years FTE. Does this mean Macquarie's 2 year degree is not eligible?
Macquarie's 2 year degree is "accelerated" and covers 3FTE years in 2 years, so you'd still be eligible for USYD I presume.
 

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REGULAR JOE

Regular Member
Macquarie's 2 year degree is "accelerated" and covers 3FTE years in 2 years, so you'd still be eligible for USYD I presume.
Since it is accelerated and the workload would be higher, do you think it would be harder to maintain a 7GPA than a normal 3 year degree?
 

Crow

Moderator Band
Moderator
Since it is accelerated and the workload would be higher, do you think it would be harder to maintain a 7GPA than a normal 3 year degree?
If you're doing more than 4 subjects at full-time load per semester, then yes, naturally with a greater workload it would be more difficult to achieve higher results.
 

KC181

Lurker
Hello everyone! This my first time posting so I just wanted some advice.
I completed my HSC this year and am sorting out preferences and what I want to do next year, I won’t be able to get into medicine for next year and I have talked to my school’s career advisor about the matter. The thing is though, she highly recommends pitfall #2 which is the medsci pathway, specifically clinical science at Macquarie. I highly respect her and she is a great career advisor, but to be honest I also share concerns about this pathway, however when I did mention taking a different course other than clinical/medical science to her she was a bit hesitant about it. Her thinking is that medicine requires high devotion and a strong interest to do it (which I highly agree with by the way), and that if I really wanted to do medicine then why wouldn’t I do well in clinical science to eventually make it to medicine (with the idea I would also do well in the UCAT or GAMSAT). It’s an idea that I can definitely understand but reading this thread I’ve come to realise it is highly risky. Sure I may do well in the course but with the large number of individuals wanting to participate in medicine, the interview etc, I’m quite hesitant on the idea now. The other option for myself (which I would highly prefer too) is doing nursing since if I couldn’t do medicine I would really like to be a nurse. However my career advisor has told me that if I really wanted to do medicine why would I go for something else in the health field? (Which is also an idea I can understand too). I’m just highly confused on what to choose now especially for my preferences. Right now clinical science is first since my career advisor advised this, but I’ve talked to universities for medicine and they’ve also supported how any degree can get myself into medicine with the right grades, UCAT or GAMSAT and interview.

All advice on my situation is highly appreciate and thank you!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

A1

Admissions Speculator
Moderator
However my career advisor has told me that if I really wanted to do medicine why would I go for something else in the health field?
Your career advisor is short sighted in thinking doing MedSc will lead you (or increase the chance) to medicine while Nursing won't. The reality is I estimate only 1 in 4-5 MedSc students can get into med, and Nursing does not make it less likely. Why choose the option with higher risk of unemployment yet no gain in return?
 

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ucatboy

Regular Member
Your career advisor is short sighted in thinking doing MedSc will lead you (or increase the chance) to medicine while Nursing won't. The reality is I estimate only 1 in 4-5 MedSc students can get into med, and Nursing does not make it less likely. Why choose the option with higher risk of unemployment yet no gain in return?
Because university propaganda 😉😉
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Hello everyone! This my first time posting so I just wanted some advice.
I completed my HSC this year and am sorting out preferences and what I want to do next year, I won’t be able to get into medicine for next year and I have talked to my school’s career advisor about the matter. The thing is though, she highly recommends pitfall #2 which is the medsci pathway, specifically clinical science at Macquarie. I highly respect her and she is a great career advisor, but to be honest I also share concerns about this pathway, however when I did mention taking a different course other than clinical/medical science to her she was a bit hesitant about it. Her thinking is that medicine requires high devotion and a strong interest to do it (which I highly agree with by the way), and that if I really wanted to do medicine then why wouldn’t I do well in clinical science to eventually make it to medicine (with the idea I would also do well in the UCAT or GAMSAT). It’s an idea that I can definitely understand but reading this thread I’ve come to realise it is highly risky. Sure I may do well in the course but with the large number of individuals wanting to participate in medicine, the interview etc, I’m quite hesitant on the idea now. The other option for myself (which I would highly prefer too) is doing nursing since if I couldn’t do medicine I would really like to be a nurse. However my career advisor has told me that if I really wanted to do medicine why would I go for something else in the health field? (Which is also an idea I can understand too). I’m just highly confused on what to choose now especially for my preferences. Right now clinical science is first since my career advisor advised this, but I’ve talked to universities for medicine and they’ve also supported how any degree can get myself into medicine with the right grades, UCAT or GAMSAT and interview.

All advice on my situation is highly appreciate and thank you!
You know what's really noticeable about your post? There is not a single, solitary suggestion that you have any interest in doing a clinical science degree. If the main driver for you preferencing it as a course is based on what your school career advisor said, and some inappropriate suggestion that you have to show your "dedication" to medicine by doing medical science, then you're on a path to disaster. In order to do well in any degree, you not only need ability, but interest. Unless your school career advisor is going to provide ongoing counselling to convince you that you're actually interested in medical science throughout the three years you're signing up to study it, I reckon you'd find it hard to sustain an interest to maintain a good GPA for grad entry.

In choosing a degree, choose what you want to do and what might lead to opportunities down the track. In my opinion, this need not necessarily be a vocational degree. It's entirely fine to pick a degree that doesn't automatically and linearly lead to a job upon graduation. So, the world is your oyster there. Do a degree in science, in arts, in whatever you want. This is actually a really fantastic opportunity to follow the pathway you want. People with non-vocational degrees do find work, albeit via a less clear-cut, more uncertain pathway than a vocational degree provides. HOWEVER, what was notable in your post is that you already have an interest (and it's not medical science). There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing nursing as a first degree. Nursing won't disadvantage your chances of getting into graduate medicine (and conversely, medical science won't necessarily help). Graduate entry medical schools pretty much consider any degree, so you should not feel restricted in your choices. Nursing is something you're interested in doing. Bonus points: nursing gives you a very defined pathway to employment after graduation. So why not go for it?
 

KC181

Lurker
Thank you for the replies. To be honest I guess I also did feel guilty since I was told I was somehow “abandoning” medicine, which isn’t what I want to do. Also I really am interested in the content in clinical science itself and what I have to learn is interesting to me. It’s more the fact that I am aware of its reputation as the “bachelor of unemployment” that puts myself off from pursuing it wholeheartedly (it’s a reputation that’s definitely known, people who I’ve spoken outside the education setting have also acknowledged it). I am someone who likes back up plans because realistically, though I still definitely want to pursue medicine, I can still be denied it even with my best effort in everything. It’s just that competitive.

At first I thought I could do the clinical science and just transfer if I see it’s not working out, but I think just going straight to nursing would be better. It not only provides myself with a peace of mind that I can find employment if things don’t work out, but it also has many scientific aspects and the patient interaction that I like. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement, I really appreciate it, i’m going to change my preferences today :)
 

chinaski

Regular Member
Thank you for the replies. To be honest I guess I also did feel guilty since I was told I was somehow “abandoning” medicine, which isn’t what I want to do.
Honestly, medicine won't care about what first degree you do (you're not failing to demonstrate your "passion" for medicine simply by having other interests). People inside the profession literally won't care either.

Having a Plan B (and C, and D) up your sleeve is always a good idea. Meanwhile, enjoy the journey.
 

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