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Discussion: Medicine Entry Bonus Points and Subquotas

I’ve made this a new thread - it’s very off-topic for the pitfalls thread. While I think these discussions can be useful to have, if your posts aren’t constructive or civil, they will be deleted as per forum rules. Thank you.
 
rejected said:
Since UES bonus points are only for attending a disadvantaged school, I wouldn't view going to these schools for year 13 as entirely wrong, as the student is exposed to the same negative factors of which made the school disadvantaged. For example, the particular student's education may be affected by the school's lack of money, or poor quality teachers, as much as other students who are attending due to other reasons. This doesn't entirely make this 'loophole' ethical or moral, but it's just a thought. I could be wrong.
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Isn’t there a difference between going to a ‘disadvantaged school’ for one year as opposed to some people going to them for their whole life? Or even all of high school/Year 11&12 🤔
 
apk22 said:
Isn’t there a difference between going to a ‘disadvantaged school’ for one year as opposed to some people going to them for their whole life? Or even all of high school/Year 11&12 🤔
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Yeah, possibly. But if SATAC thought that they may have gave UES points for those who attended the school for 2 or more years, etc.
 
rejected said:
Since UES bonus points are only for attending a disadvantaged school, I wouldn't view going to these schools for year 13 as entirely wrong, as the student is exposed to the same negative factors of which made the school disadvantaged. For example, the particular student's education may be affected by the school's lack of money, or poor quality teachers, as much as other students who are attending due to other reasons. This doesn't entirely make this 'loophole' ethical or moral, but it's just a thought.
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This just shows u have no understand of what disadvantage entails. I’d say stuff everything u just said about the school/teachers/peers. When looking at my friends in my close social circle, disadvantage for them meant working 2 jobs until 2am so their family could afford to eat and, as a result, having no time to study —> low marks. It also meant being abused by parents and being so traumatised by getting hit by someone you thought loved you/dealing with crime going on in the family/constantly thinking about if their mum was being hit by their father while they were at school/taking care of a seriously sick family member/dealing with the death of a parent etc. etc.

to think that disadvantage means you can’t go tutoring/have poor teachers is so shallow and demonstrates You have absolutely no clue about what you’re talking about. Stop embarrassing yourself, pull up and stop being so selfish. you have no idea what you’re doing and the immense damage you can potentially cause to someone who is genuinely disadvantaged.

everyone else is doing it? Good for them. you don’t have to partake in scummy acts just because everyone else is.
 
Smelly Boy said:
This just shows u have no understand of what disadvantage entails. I’d say stuff everything u just said about the school/teachers/peers. When looking at my friends in my close social circle, disadvantage for them meant working 2 jobs until 2am so their family could afford to eat and, as a result, having no time to study —> low marks. It also meant being abused by parents and being so traumatised by getting hit by someone you thought loved you/dealing with crime going on in the family/constantly thinking about if their mum was being hit by their father while they were at school/taking care of a seriously sick family member/dealing with the death of a parent etc. etc.

to think that disadvantage means you can’t go tutoring/have poor teachers is so shallow and demonstrates You have absolutely no clue about what you’re talking about. Stop embarrassing yourself, pull up and stop being so selfish. you have no idea what you’re doing and the immense damage you can potentially cause to someone who is genuinely disadvantaged.

everyone else is doing it? Good for them. you don’t have to partake in scummy acts just because everyone else is.
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Like I said, those people who are exposed to such trauma, and are of low SES, etc. get individual adjustments no matter the school.

UES bonus points and individual adjustments are entirely different. UES are for specific schools, which may be deemed disadvantaged for various reasons such as low average grades, rurality, and SES, which can affect education.

Stop the personal attacks there is no need for it. You know nothing about me. I have a very close friend who's father died and experienced more awful things which you spoke of. She went to a private school. Experiencing those things and the school you go to are not entirely related.
 
rejected said:
Like I said, those people who are exposed to such trauma, and are of low SES, etc. get individual adjustments no matter the school.

UES bonus points and individual adjustments are entirely different. UES are for specific schools, which may be deemed disadvantaged for various reasons such as low average grades, rurality, and SES, which can affect education.

Stop the personal attacks there is no need for it. You know nothing about me. I have a very close friend who's father died and experienced more awful things which you spoke of. She went to a private school. Experiencing those things and the school you go to are not entirely related.
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Some students not getting the ATAR they want are going to UES schools to bump it up artificially - this sort of stuff is rigging the system and shouldn't be entertained by SATAC and universities, especially into degrees such as medicine in which ethics and morals are supposed to be optimal.
 
rejected said:
Like I said, those people who are exposed to such trauma, and are of low SES, etc.

...

UES are for specific schools, which may be deemed disadvantaged for various reasons such as low average grades, rurality, and SES, which can affect education.
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Education and Socioeconomic Status Factsheet

Have a read

a disadvantaged school is made up of students experiencing disadvantage btw
 
I don't understand it. I now know of many people who want to get into Med that are in SA and are now fleeing to schools with equity points because quote "with the equity points I can just chill
[MedStudentsOnline.com.au] Discussion: Medicine Entry Bonus Points and Subquotas
" or " I got a bunch of cheat code: Equity mate". To my knowledge, some individuals can get up to +5 bonus points for Equity... I don't approve of this but, with such knowledge available to everyone, aren't the requirements going to increase further?

Isn't this abuse of the system for people who knowingly do it considered unethical, to grant themselves an "edge" over regular applicants?
 
Doradoraaa said:
Hi guys, I'm just wondering how many bonus points you receive for centrelink or holding a school card?
Cheers
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I believe it's a flat 5-aggregate adjustment once you demonstrate financial disadvantage.
 
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rejected said:
Since UES bonus points are only for attending a disadvantaged school, I wouldn't view going to these schools for year 13 as entirely wrong, as the student is exposed to the same negative factors of which made the school disadvantaged. For example, the particular student's education may be affected by the school's lack of money, or poor quality teachers, as much as other students who are attending due to other reasons. This doesn't entirely make this 'loophole' ethical or moral, but it's just a thought. I could be wrong.
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seeing this from an outside perspective (im from nsw), the I see several issues with this perspective:

a) Rural bonus points based on school are reflective of various factors outside the students control - low socioeconomic factors such as upbringing, isolation, lower quality resources etc.
A student attending a high quality high school and then repeating a smal section of their subjects is misusing the system, because in this situation they have choice - they have already reaped the benefits of attending a non-disadvantaged school to maximise ATAR and are now choosing to attend a dissdvantaged school. This in itself reveals that these students are not diadvantaged in their schooling - and inherently going against the very basis of this scheme.

b) While I am unaware of the stats of the number of students benefiting from (in my opinion) this misuse of the system, undoubtably this impacts genuine high achievers who are missing out be narrow margins. Where a system allows a non-disadvantaged lower scoring students to achieve a place over a higher scoring student, its frankly disappointing and doesn't reward hard work.

This approach I feel is quite disrespectful to higher scoring individuals who spend years trying to get into medicine. In the end, an individual that does not meet the requirements, should not get a postion. This is not to say they should not reapply and resit ucat/gamsat, interviews and improve their GPA. I have no qualms about people resitting exams to get a higher ATAR (pretty sure you can't do this in NSW anyway), but to deliberately manipulate the system in such an unethical manner, is not right in my opnion.

But all in all I can't physically stop you, but I just ask you take heed of my advice and the comments before me
 
StevenStrange said:
b) While I am unaware of the stats of the number of students benefiting from (in my opinion) this misuse of the system, undoubtably this impacts genuine high achievers who are missing out be narrow margins.
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What you wrote are valid in principle, however the UES itself is a blatantly unfair scheme. For example the uniform bonus of 5 points to disadvantaged schools. SATAC's definition for a disadvantaged school is if its socio-edu index is below a certain value, let's say 900 (for context average is 1000, elite schools are typically 1200). What that means is a student at a 895-index school gets a huge bonus, 97.80 boosted to 99.95, while one at a 905-index school nearby gets nothing. They treat the latter the same as the elite schools.

Another lunacy is for example a well-to-do family who choose to live in an outer suburb. They can send their children to private schools, even boarding if they want to, then thanks solely to where their home address is they get the disadvantage bonuses.

While the TAC/medschools continue to let the schemes work like that I have no qualm encouraging students to make use of any loopholes they can find.
 
Helmut said:
So because the system as it stands is unfair, you're encouraging people to make it even more unfair?
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When more people start taking advantage of the system, then the edge they all get is decreased. This is because the bonus is distributed to a wider number of people and hence it becomes less unique. I know that some high achieving students (and their families) are unable to exploit the system due to a variety of factors, but at least when more people exploit the system it might bring this loophole to the attention of the relevant authorities which will lead to amendments that tighten it or close it.
 
noteinstein1 said:
When more people start taking advantage of the system, then the edge they all get is decreased. This is because the bonus is distributed to a wider number of people and hence it becomes less unique. I know that some high achieving students (and their families) are unable to exploit the system due to a variety of factors, but at least when more people exploit the system it might bring this loophole to the attention of the relevant authorities which will lead to amendments that tighten it or close it.
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Such an approach is based upon a misguided and unethical mindset.
 
I noted Cal has given an angry face to my suggestion so let me add this.

In many many mid-upper public schools not even one student can get ATAR 99, but these schools are not categorised as disadvantaged. Students in these schools are thus disadvantaged twice - once against the selective/elite schools then again against the disadvantaged schools.

It's why I have no hesitation making these suggestions. These students need to look after themselves if the system doesn't do for them.
 
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