ethics of watching pornography

[Dr Worm]

Should we retitle it...ethics and sex-or-things-like-sex and doctors?

Unsuprisingly, the research I found indicated that medical students and - to a lesser extent - doctors drink more, smoke less, and engage in the same amount of "high risk sex" (the focus being on safe sex). Several references to previous studies I couldn't find saying that doctors inclined toward drug use or...promiscuity, for want of a better word (I object to it, but can't think of a better one), make poor clinical decisions when dealing with patients with these issues....I find it hard to believe that that is an especially valid finding, especially since I can't find the study....but just saying....

I find the idea that doctors should behave better than mere mortals ludicrous, on first enocunter, but...doctors smoke less than the rest of the population. By a long way. Now, they didn't used to.

COMPARED TO THE GENERAL POPULATION....
Are doctors less human? doubtful
...more exposed to and familiar with ethical decision making, as a concept? probably
...highly motivated to behave "well" and avoid risk-taking.unproffessional behavior? yes
...likely to be stressed out and sleep deprived? yes.

To reframe the original question...
Do med strudents and doctors watch porn?
sure.
More or less than the general population?
Dunno. Couldn't find a study on it.
Well what do you reckon?
I think the highly ambitious, motivated people experiencing stress and tiredness (and (relative) youth, in the case of med students) demographic argues for yes, probably more than the average for the population.

Is it ethical?
Depends on whether you think porn is ethical.

If you think porn is mysoginistic/degrading/addictive alters attitudes:
- what if you only watch porn which is specifically not these things?
- how is the outcome any different to being a bit of a misogynist who doesn't watch porn?
- What if you can compartmentalise it. I mean, even if your GP leaves work at 5 and watchs porn til midnight...if it doesn''t affect their work, how is it a problem?

If you think porn is always fine:
-WHat if watching porn (probably alot) turned out to adversely affect clinical judgement? (ie w/r/t sexual health practise, I would guess). Woud it still be fine?

In general, ought doctors be held to a higher moral standard? (smoking, for example)

 

[Dr Worm]

PS WOmen read Mills and Boon and men watch porn?

Nooooo....

On the one hand, there is evidence that this is the case.

On the other hand...porn is only a wierd and often ****ed-up repressentaion of sex

The other is a wierd and often ****ed-up repressentation of sex embedded in bad writing.

 

[Kyle]

Father Ron Rolheiser, a catholic priest, wrote a great piece about the sexuality of priests and the desire of the public to ignore it. I think there's significant parallels with medicine. I've reproduced, verbatim, below his final conclusion as to why catholics are so desperate to ignore the sexuality of priests.

"It's an interesting speculation as to why the Catholic community wants its priests to radiate naivet‚ and non-complexity. I suspect it's because, deep down, we're all a little afraid of our own complexity and somehow if father goes through life pretending that he has no shadow, we can also more easily pretend that we haven't got one either."

Entire article's in offtopics for anybody interested.

[offtopic]

On the 10th anniversary of my ordination, I published a reflection on the priesthood, intending it as a challenge to the Catholic community to understand its priests more empathically. Maybe I'm more mature today, though perhaps the years have also blunted some of the courage and verve I had back then. So I share again the words I wrote when I was still a young priest:

Ten years a priest! I can say it out loud: They've been good years, full enough of giving and receiving. I have enjoyed the ministry and have been able to help some people even as I have been helped by others. There have been too some incredibly special moments, depth moments clearly touched by transcendence, and I have also tasted sufficient agony. I've no regrets.

My initial fears on entering the seminary had centred around loneliness and boredom. These have been non-issues. The spectres of pressure, over-intensity and burn-out cast a much more threatening shadow.

As I look ahead, I would like to offer a reflection to the Catholic community vis-a-vis its priests:

Roman Catholics still understand a priest too much in terms of his cultic role. There is undue significance given to the cultic powers a priest has been given to preside at Eucharist and administer the sacraments.

Partly because of this the priest is too easily cast in the role of the tribal medicine man. Like the medicine man, he is respected and revered because he is feared. But he is not genuinely loved, nor understood, because he is never perceived and accepted as being fully human. Too frequently, we are made to feel out-of-the-ordinary, medicine men.

More debilitating still is the Catholic community's understanding of the priest as a sexual being. Bottom line, a priest is expected to act as if we are not a being full of sexual complexity. Please do not misunderstand this: What I'm pleading for is not that the Catholic community invite or condone sexual weakness and irresponsibility in its priests. Nor should it invite a priest to be simply "one of the boys."

The issue is one of accepting a priest's full humanity, including his sexuality and the necessary complexity that follows from that. The priest need not be handed a licence to be irresponsible, but he needs to be handed the feeling that he is understood and accepted fully as he is, including his complexities and sexuality.

Unfortunately, that is rarely afforded us and, consequently, we must pretend, pretend that we are eunuchs. No eunuch can preach effectively to the full-blooded. That is why we are politely listened to, even as it is taken for granted that we have nothing vital to say about real life.

A priest generally finds himself in a no-win situation: If he seemingly understands life too clearly, including its earthier aspects of sex and sin, then he draws the suspicion of the Catholic community. Conversely, if he radiates the innocence and naivet‚ the community wants of him, he is relegated to the realm of the insignificant, still allowed to do his magic, but no full-blooded person turns to him for genuine understanding and guidance.

It's an interesting speculation as to why the Catholic community wants its priests to radiate naivet‚ and non-complexity. I suspect it's because, deep down, we're all a little afraid of our own complexity and somehow if father goes through life pretending that he has no shadow, we can also more easily pretend that we haven't got one either.

Finally, we tend to leave no room for our priests to be weak. I am not speaking here of weak in the moral sense, but weak in the way Jesus was weak and in the way that any truly sensitive person is: vulnerable, not always together, emotionally over-wrought, chronically over-extended, and prone to cry very needy tears at times.

So my plea is this: Please don't ask your priest to dress in medieval clothes, to stay in the sanctuary and to be so timid as to be unable to dare the perilous task of living. Let him be himself: complex, weak, sexed, masculine, involved, needy and free not to pretend. Priests are tired of being cast in the clothing of senility while everyone is crying to be young, tired of being cast as eunuchs without real blood, sinew and passion.

Small wonder hardly anyone wants to join us! We need, priests and community together, to risk some new directions. There are risks in this, but, as Goethe once put it; "The dangers of life are infinite and safety is among them."[/offtopic]

 

[chinaski]

If you think porn is always fine:
-WHat if watching porn (probably alot) turned out to adversely affect clinical judgement? (ie w/r/t sexual health practise, I would guess). Woud it still be fine?

Same could be said about any other legal hobby which has the potential to turn into an addiction. By that logic, you could apply the same benchmark to drinking alcohol, having sex, gambling, or having any other interest that could turn into an obsession - even things like having a family or a religion fall into this category. If you run along that line of argument, you can claim it's potentially unhealthy for doctors to have any outside interests!

 

[Season]

If you think porn is always fine:
-WHat if watching porn (probably alot) turned out to adversely affect clinical judgement? (ie w/r/t sexual health practise, I would guess). Woud it still be fine?

In general, ought doctors be held to a higher moral standard? (smoking, for example)

With any mental disorder, it only becomes a problem when it interferes with life. eg a lot of people are shy and don't like public speaking, it only becomes social phobia when you start skipping school because of it.

I think its interesting how a lot of people view some professions as having higher moral standards. I think on some level we serve as role models for the community and should live up to it, however no one should hold anyone to these standards. We can choose to live up to the regular moral standards.

I personally think doctors should engage in preventative medicine that we recommend to patients eg
- regular exercise
- no smoking
- moderate drinking
- no illicit drugs
- supportive social network
- healthy diet

Simply as I think its a bit hypocritical not to. Apart from that I don't think doctors should hold themselves to anything other then their own personal standards.

 

[Cremaster]

Is it ethical for med students/doctors to watch pornography and generally do they?

No, but they probably do anyways.

 

[Havox]

No but they probably do anyways.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[Cremaster]

Could you elaborate on this?

You've seen porn, right?

 

[godoftoast]

Simply as I think its a bit hypocritical not to. Apart from that I don't think doctors should hold themselves to anything other then their own personal standards.

I dont think its hypocritical at all. Its all about personal values. Some people value having a long life whilst others are content to enjoy the guilty pleasures of life despite the health risks.

 

[Jordan]

You've seen porn, right?

I really don't think whether or not Havox has seen porn is relevant to this discussion. He just asked you to elaborate on why you assume that med students/doctors probably watch porn.

 

[miss_universe]

Or rather, why it is unethical.

 

[Cremaster]

I was making a point that it's unethical and if anyone has watched porn they would have seen how women (and men) are treated and disrespected which is quite disgusting. If I was a patient I certainly wouldn't want a doctor that fantasizes about such things treating me.

Also this discussion is about Doctors/Medstudents and pornography - Havox is a Medstudent isn't he?

 

[Kyle]

I was making a point that it's unethical and if anyone has watched porn they would have seen how women (and men) are treated and disrespected which is quite disgusting. If I was a patient I certainly wouldn't want a doctor that fantasizes about such things treating me.

Also this discussion is about Doctors/Medstudents and pornography - Havox is a Medstudent isn't he?

The point to make is that "if I was a patient I wouldn't want a doctor who x" really isn't impressive to me, you'll discover in time that as often as not that sentence will end with "is one of those arabs" or "doesn't believe in god" or "is gay" or something equally stupid. When people decide who they do and don't want as their doctor based on something that doesn't affect the way they practice it as often as not reflects some underlying*bigotry, bias or small mindedness and is very very rarely harmless.

Sure doctors have lives outside medicine, and I'm sure some of them (shockingly) decide to live their lives a different way to their patients but when patients are caught up/worried/self entitled enough to decide that makes somebody unsuitable to be a doctor it's almost always based on some*extremist, small town, reactionary conservative mentality.*It's not just*idiosyncratic, cute, curious*or benign and it's not acceptable. What a doctor does in their own time that doesn't hurt or affect their patients is, quite frankly, none of your goddamned business.

To this day I don't understand why people think it's any of their business what doctors do in their own time, or why they feel entitled to hold the same up to the light for inspection and judge them for it.

Havox is indeed a med student, as I am, and are most members on here.

 

[godoftoast]

Dammit. I request to see the unfiltered version of Kyle's post

 

[BigRedSky]

I was making a point that it's unethical and if anyone has watched porn they would have seen how women (and men) are treated and disrespected which is quite disgusting. If I was a patient I certainly wouldn't want a doctor that fantasizes about such things treating me.

Are you ever, seriously ever going to know what fantasies your doctor has? Can one spend their life worrying about the hidden thoughts of others? You've got more time than I do if you can. You've probably been treated by doctors that are porn watchers / gay / straight / foot fetishists etc - and you've just never known.

I don't care what any professional I work with / see / employ does with their spare time or their high-speed internet connection, as long as it's not on my time or inappropriately presented to me. It's that simple. Doctors shouldn't view porn at work, just like any other professional, beyond that, I don't care.

If you spend your life expecting more from doctors / politicians / managers / your own partner / your children / family than what is reasonable, you'll spend a chunk of your life being continually disappointed.

 

[Havox]

I was making a point that it's unethical and if anyone has watched porn they would have seen how women (and men) are treated and disrespected which is quite disgusting. If I was a patient I certainly wouldn't want a doctor that fantasizes about such things treating me.

What a doctor does in their own time that doesn't hurt or affect their patients is, quite frankly, none of your goddamned business.

Pretty much exactly this. I ask you, why should a doctor be put on a pedestal and be expected to live at a "higher" (I put this in quotation marks since its totally interpretive anyway) standard than everyone else? What makes he or she different?

Havox is a Medstudent isn't he?

Yes. I am a second year medical student.

 

[vitualis]

I was making a point that it's unethical and if anyone has watched porn they would have seen how women (and men) are treated and disrespected which is quite disgusting.

Actually, you haven't made your point at all. Why is it "unethical"? "Disgusting" (and mind you, many people do not find pornography "disgusting") is not the same as unethical.

The men and women in pornography are for the most part career performers.

If I was a patient I certainly wouldn't want a doctor that fantasizes about such things treating me.

You can have any beliefs and preferences you want... but you haven't explained why it is unethical.

Regards.

 

[Dr Worm]

I think you could make the argument that some porn is unethical or disturbing or both, just as you can make the argument that some values of any product x are unethical. Not sure if you can generalise it, though.

David Foster Wallace had a good essay on the porn industry, considering a range of views. From memory, he draws no firm conclusion. I think this is the full text:
https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/books_9780316156110_ChapterExcerpt(1).htm

 

[Dr Worm]

ps +1 bigredsky

but fyi, yes, I have seen a lot of porn. While it is maybe interesting that a lot of mainstream straight porn might be argued to tend towards being degrading to women or objectifying women etc, firstly this is a bit of a generalisation, and there are certainly independent adult film makers who focus on making porn they consider more ethical, or to portray more women in non submissive roles.

However, surely arguing that some porn is "disgusting" invites the argument that some sex is disgusting or disrespectful? I find that a strange way to come at the wide range of (consensual) human sexuality and sexual behavior.