GPA ATAR Conversion/Equiv Rank by UAC

[Nonstandard983]

I'm not saying whether or not it should equal 99.95, I just want to get a clearer idea of what it converts to

No I get that that’s fair tbh it might only equal 99.5 as per the task with SCATS bringing it up

 

[ThunderDragon]

Based on the data so far, it seems like the only way nonstandards could get an interview offer would be either they surpass the Atar cut-off (99.5 or 99.55 based on the data given so far) or they have SCATS.

 

[cherry19]

Hello, I wanted to clarify if my understanding of the GPA calculation process is correct:

Say a first-year uni student is doing 8 courses (1 FTE) that are 6 uoc each and they get the following results, 2 HD, 5 D, 1 C:

Would the GPA be (7+7+6+6+6+6+6+5)/8= 6.125

Is that how it works?

 

[A1]

Would the GPA be (7+7+6+6+6+6+6+5)/8= 6.125

That's correct.
Fyi sometimes you may have a double 12uoc course and score a D, you'd add two 6s to the total.

 

[ELLEN2002]

Hi, I was just wondering if I transferred to another university for a different course how would they calculate my GPA (I'm a first year undergrad so I haven't got a full year GPA history yet). Do they reset everything and provide a new GPA based on the new semester only or they somehow 'combine' GPA from the previous semester.

 

[A1]

Hi, I was just wondering if I transferred to another university for a different course how would they calculate my GPA (I'm a first year undergrad so I haven't got a full year GPA history yet). Do they reset everything and provide a new GPA based on the new semester only or they somehow 'combine' GPA from the previous semester.

Unfortunately there isn't one-size-fits-all answer. It depends on the school you apply to and whether you've done 0.5 FTE year (one semester) or 1.0+ FTE in each program study.

If by end of this year you will complete one semester each of two degree programs:
- JMP will use your ATAR (since you haven't got any 1+FTE)
- WSU uses best of the two GPAs but you'll need 6.5+ (instead of 6.2+ for 1+FTE)
- Griffith Dent will calculate one GPA for each semester and one GPA for combined then use best of the three
- UNSW & JCU : Not sure but I'm inclined to believe they will calculate a 1FTE GPA for the two semesters combined.

 

[ventus56]

Hi, I was looking through the 2022 entry interview invites collated data and thought I could provide some info on the competitiveness of GPA for UNSW medicine entry for anyone that is interested. I graduated in 2020 with an atar of 99.70, no special considerations and non-rural, and my GPA is nothing special which means UNSW will take 99.70 (best of) as my selection rank.

From the 2022 entry interview data, I can see a reply on page 16 where a 7.0 GPA student with a 94th percentile ucat was rejected for an interview. However, I received a lower ucat (93%) and was given an interview last year.

This suggests a 7.0 GPA is given a selection rank lower than 99.70. However, please not I am not sure if the 7.0GPA was for a >1.0 FTE.

 

[serotonin]

Unfortunately there isn't one-size-fits-all answer. It depends on the school you apply to and whether you've done 0.5 FTE year (one semester) or 1.0+ FTE in each program study.

If by end of this year you will complete one semester each of two degree programs:
- JMP will use your ATAR (since you haven't got any 1+FTE)
- WSU uses best of the two GPAs but you'll need 6.5+ (instead of 6.2+ for 1+FTE)
- Griffith Dent will calculate one GPA for each semester and one GPA for combined then use best of the three
- UNSW & JCU : Not sure but I'm inclined to believe they will calculate a 1FTE GPA for the two semesters combined.

Hi A1
Do you know how Griffith Dent will calculate GPA for 1 year FTE of an uncompleted degree + 0.5 FTE of an uncompleted degree?

 

[A1]

Hi A1
Do you know how Griffith Dent will calculate GPA for 1 year FTE of an uncompleted degree + 0.5 FTE of an uncompleted degree?

I've read an example from Griffith, they will calculate a GPA for the 1 FTE, one for the 0.5 FTE, one for 1.5 FTE combined then use the one best for you.

What this means is in your particular case, if the 1 FTE is the highest GPA it is used. If the 0.5 FTE is highest (but converts poorly), combining it with the 1 FTE gives a better conversion.

 

[tivo_mane]

I've read an example from Griffith, they will calculate a GPA for the 1 FTE, one for the 0.5 FTE, one for 1.5 FTE combined then use the one best for you.

What this means is in your particular case, if the 1 FTE is the highest GPA it is used. If the 0.5 FTE is highest (but converts poorly), combining it with the 1 FTE gives a better conversion.

I'm in a similar predicament as the individual above, so any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I am due to finish my current undergraduate degree by next year's first semester, whereby in the second semester I would have enrolled in a different university and in a different course. I am enrolling in another degree to boost my GPA as my current GPA is not viable for me to pressure dentistry.

So would each of the dentistry school use my GPA from the completed course or my latest 0.5 FTE GPA or 1 FTE GPA by combining both first-semester and second-semester marks.

Hope this makes sense. Thank you

 

[JeydinNewWon]

Hi, I was looking through the 2022 entry interview invites collated data and thought I could provide some info on the competitiveness of GPA for UNSW medicine entry for anyone that is interested. I graduated in 2020 with an atar of 99.70, no special considerations and non-rural, and my GPA is nothing special which means UNSW will take 99.70 (best of) as my selection rank.

From the 2022 entry interview data, I can see a reply on page 16 where a 7.0 GPA student with a 94th percentile ucat was rejected for an interview. However, I received a lower ucat (93%) and was given an interview last year.

This suggests a 7.0 GPA is given a selection rank lower than 99.70. However, please not I am not sure if the 7.0GPA was for a >1.0 FTE.

Woah! That’s some really cool information.

Did you end up getting an offer?

 

[A1]

I am due to finish my current undergraduate degree by next year's first semester, whereby in the second semester I would have enrolled in a different university and in a different course.

This^ means you will complete a 3 FTE year degree by next year's 1st semester then 0.5 FTE of a new degree by next year's 2nd semester?

So would each of the dentistry school use my GPA from the completed course or my latest 0.5 FTE GPA or 1 FTE GPA by combining both first-semester and second-semester marks.

Unfortunately none will help you whether the Dent schools use your 3FTE GPA or your 0.5FTE GPA, because:
- The 3FTE GPA is low
- The 0.5FTE GPA, even at 7.0, converts to a poor Selection rank (simply due to the conversion factors defined for <1.0FTE)
- Griffith goes an extra step to calculate for you a combined 3.5FTE GPA (to escape the <1.0FTE conversion), however the one latest semester won't average up the other 6 semesters by much.

Your best option is to complete 1FTE (2 semesters) of a new degree to use its GPA by itself.

 

[JeydinNewWon]

University: USyd
Course and preference in relevant TAC: 4th Preference
Date and time of invite receipt: 17/01/23 9:00am
Predicted/Actual ATAR/GPA: 1580 SAT (converts to 99.95)
Rural: No
State: NSW
Other Special Considerations: None

Hi guys, I just wanted to post about something interesting that I found works. I am a domestic student from NSW and I got a 99.90. But earlier in the year, I saw a tiktok saying that I could do the SAT to get a better UAC selection rank - I did some looking into it, including calling UNSW and Usyd and seeing if it was legit, and everyone seemed to say 'yeah I guess so'.

I also looked at a PDF from USyd that they make for international students so that I could see what type of SAT score I would need to get above a 99 ATAR in the conversion - e.g. a 1510 out of 1600 converted to a 99.6, 1570 converted to 99.95. I attached the pdf I saw below, but there's probably a more updated one. At the time, my ATAR wasn't looking too good and I thought if I got above 1500 I could increase my chances of getting into med school.

So I took a chance and did the SAT around May 2022. One stipulation that the UNSW person I spoke to said was that I had to take it within a year before applying - so you can't use an SAT score from Year 10 or 11 or something.

Why did I do it? Well, the SAT is a three-hour multiple-choice exam that is scored out of 1600. I think Americans start doing it when they are in Year 10, so I personally think that it was definitely easier than doing the HSC. There are basically two sections - English and Maths. The English is basic NAPLAN comprehension style questions and then common sense grammar questions. The Maths only requires a Year 10 level of understanding, the hardest thing was parabolas. I studied for only a week on Khan Academy (which is good and free). If anyone ever considered this route, they can just do a free practice exam there to see if it would be worthwhile to sit the actual exam.

After I got my result, I had to submit a Qualification Assessment Service on UAC and put it as a qualification on my undergraduate application. I also authorised SAT to release my results to UAC. The caveat is that you need to have graduated highschool to complete the requirements for using the SAT (SAT and completed high school). So I only received the qualification after 15 Dec 2022 i.e. when I received my ATAR and proof that I graduated, hence why USyd offered me an Assessment Day 2 Interview in January, not the one in December. I assume other unis would accept it too because UAC converts it directly to a selection rank.

Cost: The SAT itself cost around $75 to take. It cost $17 to release the results to UAC. Then I had to submit it to UAC's Qualifications Assessment Service which cost $140. So it is by no means a cost-free endeavour.

I think it would be useful if e.g your like a 90 ATAR student, but you could get like a 95.5 ATAR (1360 SAT) for UWS or Newcastle (although I never called them about it), or if you thought you could do really well and get 99+ ATAR (1500+ SAT) which is a great ATAR conversion. (I think most overseas qualification conversions are quite generous - they want overseas students to apply)

TLDR: I think the SAT is a viable option for domestic students

A1 ucat3300+

Maybe we should discuss this matter here since the other thread is for offers but I really do not like the fact that the SAT can be used like this.

The SAT is a “UCAT-like” exam that is to grant entrance into Ivy League unis. (Since Ivy League entry is like getting into undergrad med here). It’s judged alongside one’s college GPA, which is where the actual academic grades come in.

This SAT ranking based on an entirely different ballpark than ATAR. The ATAR measures ranks on academic performance, not scholastic aptitude. So it’s a fundamentally invalid comparison, let alone conversion.

This method can become a really abuse-able and will disproportionally inflate the number of 99.95s.

 

[ucat3300+]

A1 ucat3300+

Maybe we should discuss this matter here since the other thread is for offers but I really do not like the fact that the SAT can be used like this.

The SAT is a “UCAT-like” exam that is to grant entrance into Ivy League unis. (Since Ivy League entry is like getting into undergrad med here). It’s judged alongside one’s college GPA, which is where the actual academic grades come in.

This SAT ranking based on an entirely different ballpark than ATAR. The ATAR measures ranks on academic performance, not scholastic aptitude. So it’s a fundamentally invalid comparison, let alone conversion.

This method can become a really abuse-able and will disproportionally inflate the number of 99.95s.

Damn, I didn’t know the SAT was an aptitude test, that explains why it appears so damn easy.

To give another perspective, I’m pretty sure the most difficult math concept that comes up in SAT is Permutations and Combinations (aptitude test kind of stuff).

Given that we’re doing things like complex roots of unity and integration by parts over here, I think 1580/1600 = 99.95 is just nonsense.

I’m very surprised no one knew about this loophole, grateful that Lightweaver decided to share it with the rest of us (all the best for your interview mate, I hope you get in lol) and curious to see where this story will go

 

[JeydinNewWon]

Damn, I didn’t know the SAT was an aptitude test, that explains why it appears so damn easy.

To give another perspective, I’m pretty sure the most difficult math concept that comes up in SAT is Permutations and Combinations (aptitude test kind of stuff).

Given that we’re doing things like complex roots of unity and integration by parts over here, I think 1580/1600 = 99.95 is just nonsense.

I’m very surprised no one knew about this loophole, grateful that Lightweaver decided to share it with the rest of us (all the best for your interview mate, I hope you get in lol) and curious to see where this story will go

Uhh...dude...the "SAT" is an acronym for Scholastic Aptitude Test

 

[Lightweaver]

Damn, I didn’t know the SAT was an aptitude test, that explains why it appears so damn easy.

To give another perspective, I’m pretty sure the most difficult math concept that comes up in SAT is Permutations and Combinations (aptitude test kind of stuff).

Given that we’re doing things like complex roots of unity and integration by parts over here, I think 1580/1600 = 99.95 is just nonsense.

I’m very surprised no one knew about this loophole, grateful that Lightweaver decided to share it with the rest of us (all the best for your interview mate, I hope you get in lol) and curious to see where this story will go

Yeah, when I first heard about it I immediately thought that there's no way that this works, otherwise it would be common practice or it would get quickly 'patched' by UAC, but curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to investigate it.

Who knows, maybe they will do something about it, maybe they won't - because it attracts overseas students to study here. (E.g with the IB it's taken years to balance the scores with ATAR properly, especially for the higher range of marks). I definitely agree, in no way is the SAT comparable to the trek that is the HSC.

I got into UNSW (omg!!), which is my dream school, so I probably won't attend the interview anyway - it's just proof of concept I guess. Anyway, I thought people should know about it - med/dent is already so difficult to get into, with so many access hurdles, so I wouldn't want people to be disadvantaged just because they didn't know something. As you said, let's see where this story goes.

 

[ucat3300+]

but curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to investigate it

What a legend XD

because it attracts overseas students to study here

True poor USA kids who need to do MCAT and personal statements and research and maintain a 4.0/4.0 GPA - just do the SAT and get into Usyd Med XD

I got into UNSW (omg!!), which is my dream school, so I probably won't attend the interview anyway

What a legend x2

nyway, I thought people should know about it - med/dent is already so difficult to get into, with so many access hurdles, so I wouldn't want people to be disadvantaged just because they didn't know something

What a legend x3!!!!!!!

 

[JeydinNewWon]

Yeah, when I first heard about it I immediately thought that there's no way that this works, otherwise it would be common practice or it would get quickly 'patched' by UAC, but curiosity got the better of me and I wanted to investigate it.

Who knows, maybe they will do something about it, maybe they won't - because it attracts overseas students to study here. (E.g with the IB it's taken years to balance the scores with ATAR properly, especially for the higher range of marks). I definitely agree, in no way is the SAT comparable to the trek that is the HSC.

I got into UNSW (omg!!), which is my dream school, so I probably won't attend the interview anyway - it's just proof of concept I guess. Anyway, I thought people should know about it - med/dent is already so difficult to get into, with so many access hurdles, so I wouldn't want people to be disadvantaged just because they didn't know something. As you said, let's see where this story goes.

Just in case, I’d also like to apologise if I sounded too critical but it’s not meant to be personal or anything. My comment wasn’t meant to be a criticism of your individual decision to use the SAT, but more so a critique of a flawed conversion process.

The SAT was invented to be intrinsic to US University Applications. I don’t think it has any merit elsewhere, since application systems are very different globally. If we wanted to assess international academic qualifications, UAC should assess one’s GPA, not the SAT.

Nevertheless, I think you did really well on your ATAR regardless and got into UNSW med so now you can enjoy

 

[ucatboy]

A1 ucat3300+

Maybe we should discuss this matter here since the other thread is for offers but I really do not like the fact that the SAT can be used like this.

The SAT is a “UCAT-like” exam that is to grant entrance into Ivy League unis. (Since Ivy League entry is like getting into undergrad med here). It’s judged alongside one’s college GPA, which is where the actual academic grades come in.

This SAT ranking based on an entirely different ballpark than ATAR. The ATAR measures ranks on academic performance, not scholastic aptitude. So it’s a fundamentally invalid comparison, let alone conversion.

This method can become a really abuse-able and will disproportionally inflate the number of 99.95s.

This is a huge development that could mess with med admissions a lot. I knew a fair few "high aptitude" students who did very well in the UCAT (99%ile) but lacked the work ethic/motivation and slacked off in Year 11 and 12, with their ATAR ultimately preventing them from being competitive for med. With this pathway, you can basically turn it from ATAR + UCAT into UCAT + UCAT lmao

Australia has always offered something very similar called the STAT administered by ACER, but the conversions are pisspoor (highest possible score = 90 ATAR) which basically made it a non-starter for med. This is different though, as the highest ranks are actually achievable.

 

[Lightweaver]

Just in case, I’d also like to apologise if I sounded too critical but it’s not meant to be personal or anything. My comment wasn’t meant to be a criticism of your individual decision to use the SAT, but more so a critique of a flawed conversion process.

The SAT was invented to be intrinsic to US University Applications. I don’t think it has any merit elsewhere, since application systems are very different globally. If we wanted to assess international academic qualifications, UAC should assess one’s GPA, not the SAT.

Nevertheless, I think you did really well on your ATAR regardless and got into UNSW med so now you can enjoy

haha all good, no need to apologise, I thought the same thing as well when I first heard.

This is a huge development that could mess with med admissions a lot. I knew a fair few "high aptitude" students who did very well in the UCAT (99%ile) but lacked the work ethic/motivation and slacked off in Year 11 and 12, with their ATAR ultimately preventing them from being competitive for med. With this pathway, you can basically turn it from ATAR + UCAT into UCAT + UCAT lmao

Australia has always offered something very similar called the STAT administered by ACER, but the conversions are pisspoor (highest possible score = 90 ATAR) which basically made it a non-starter for med. This is different though, as the highest ranks are actually achievable.

Yeah it has a lot of implications and could shake things up quite a bit, depending on how many people would actually try this 'experimental' route - however I would probably guess that UAC would nerf it eventually.