[Grad] Graduate Medicine FAQ and Quick Questions

[Perplex]

can anyone please advise me on what undergraduate degree i would have to do to get into postgraduate medicine and the universities that offer it ?

Hi Hamael, you can do literally any undergraduate degree to gain entry into postgraduate medicine. If you are aiming for Melbourne, you do need to complete a few prerequisite subjects, however (these can be completed as elective subjects and as such this should not have a major influence on what undergraduate degree you choose). As previously advised, do the degree that will let you follow your back-up career plan, should medicine not work out. Feel free to ask for advice on back-up careers on here also - MSO has a wealth of knowledge between all of its users!

Crow has already provided some great advice. I will add what I can. Yes, for most unis you can do whatever you want - there are some exceptions. Monash reserves places only for its own students (with most going to their Biomed students), and Flinders seems to heavily preference their own students (in addition to students of a rural background and some other categories). In saying that, I would not chose an undergrad degree with the sole intention of getting into medicine. You are best off, at this stage, considering other interests and identifying potential, viable, careers in those fields. Feel free to ask more specific questions.

 

[Red Wine Aficionado]

Hey um people...

I am currently in year 11 from SA and will be attending the Flinders uni open day and the Adelaide uni open day this weekend. I really want to get into graduate medicine and I'm currently torn up between two options. I was planning to go to Flinders uni to do Paramedic science and then apply for grad medicine there. Or should I go to Adelaide uni and do a Health and medical sciences (advanced) course and then apply to grad medicine at Flinders???? THanks, Sorry if there are typos and grammatical errors, I was in a rush !!

Okay bye!

 

[A1]

Hey um people...

I am currently in year 11 from SA and will be attending the Flinders uni open day and the Adelaide uni open day this weekend. I really want to get into graduate medicine and I'm currently torn up between two options. I was planning to go to Flinders uni to do Paramedic science and then apply for grad medicine there. Or should I go to Adelaide uni and do a Health and medical sciences (advanced) course and then apply to grad medicine at Flinders???? THanks, Sorry if there are typos and grammatical errors, I was in a rush !!

Okay bye!

Hi welcome to MSO. The content of your undergrad course doesn't have a significant effect on studying grad medicine (since they will teach medicine from the ground up). Choose the one that you actually like to do and can use gainfully in case you fail to get into Med.

In your particular case though, studying at Flinders gives a big advantage in that Flinders allocates a generous MD quota to its undergrad students thus less competitive than for external students.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hey um people...

I am currently in year 11 from SA and will be attending the Flinders uni open day and the Adelaide uni open day this weekend. I really want to get into graduate medicine and I'm currently torn up between two options. I was planning to go to Flinders uni to do Paramedic science and then apply for grad medicine there. Or should I go to Adelaide uni and do a Health and medical sciences (advanced) course and then apply to grad medicine at Flinders???? THanks, Sorry if there are typos and grammatical errors, I was in a rush !!

Okay bye!

Bump and notification of thread change. See A1's reply.

 

[Crow]

Hey um people...

I am currently in year 11 from SA and will be attending the Flinders uni open day and the Adelaide uni open day this weekend. I really want to get into graduate medicine and I'm currently torn up between two options. I was planning to go to Flinders uni to do Paramedic science and then apply for grad medicine there. Or should I go to Adelaide uni and do a Health and medical sciences (advanced) course and then apply to grad medicine at Flinders???? THanks, Sorry if there are typos and grammatical errors, I was in a rush !!

Okay bye!

Hi there. While it is good to see that you are thinking ahead, keep in mind you don't have to make this decision right at this moment - in fact, you still have over a year to do so! So I wouldn't be stressing too much about this with this in mind.

Aside from that, my first question - is there any particularly reason why you aren't aiming for undergraduate medicine entry, given you are only in Year 11 right now? While graduate entry is arguably slightly less competitive than undergraduate entry, you don't really have anything to lose by giving that a crack next year.

In terms of selecting an undergraduate degree, please read this thread written by Mana which provides some very solid advice:

Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

I completely echo the sentiments of the thread. You should never do a degree for the sole purpose of using it to get into medicine - all degrees should be completed on their own merits. In selecting your degree, you should consider what alternative career path you would like to follow, should medicine not work out. Unfortunately given its competitive nature, the majority of medicine applicants miss out, and many are often left with degrees (such as medical science) that provide limited career opportunities.

With this in mind - paramedic science is a degree which provides a solid alternative career, and thus I would recommend you follow this if you genuinely can see yourself practising as a paramedic as an alternative to medicine. If you can't, then perhaps you should consider another career. Think about what your motivations to study medicine are, as this will help you decide what career path you could follow that may provide you with similar satisfaction. In terms of Flinders vs Adelaide, if there aren't any considerations there other than which university you should go to, you may as well study at Flinders to be placed into their subquota (as A1 has pointed out) as this will give you significantly lower entry requirements than other applicants (although I suspect they won't be much lower by the time you are ready to enter the course).

You are more than welcome to ask questions about potential career paths on here, where MSO members can provide further advice to you.

 

[Perplex]

I agree with the advice given above. It is important to choose a degree based on the chances of landing a job in that field once you graduate, if medicine does not work out. Health Science/Med Sci/Biomed degrees are ubiquitous and offer poor job outcomes on a whole (besides research, RA work, perhaps some public sector work, or a completely different field).
Viable options include Physiotherapy, Denistry, etc. list goes on.

I would caution you about Paramedic Science. I'm no expert but from what I understand the field is very saturated and working conditions are not the best. I guess you could say that about a lot of things nowadays though...

 

[honice]

Hi everyone,

I am a NZ graduate who regrets not trying the HSFY option and went on instead to do Biomedical Science in Victoria University. I graduated with an okay but not amazing GPA and was wondering what would be the best option to try and get into graduate entry medicine.

I know there are options to do graduate entry medicine in Otago or Auckland but I don't feel like my GPA of 6.69 (might be higher as I used the general Otago calculator) is competitive enough to get in but I am hopeful as I am potentially considered rural. My last two years are better 6.91 but not nearly competitive enough for Auckland.

Are there any others paths that I need to be aware of?

I am going to be working full time this year but want to take as many exams, tests and apply to all my potential pathways.

So far I am planning on taking the UMAT (UCAT since it's being changed now?) and GAMSAT.

I am trying to apply for NZ, Australia and Ireland (as I have citizenship there and potentially get domestic fees in some universities).

I took the GAMSAT this year and got a 58 and hoping to get a better score this coming March.

I also took the UMAT in my final year as a practice and scored 50/46/50 I am still unsure if this was competitive for graduate entry but I didn't end up applying that year for medicine because I wanted to see what other options I had.

It's a bit confusing but I was just wondering if anyone would be able to give me some advice on what would be the best step for me as I was unsure during my undergraduate years but am now certain that I want to pursue medicine. Should I go back and get an honours to bring my GPA or is there other pathways I can take?

Thanks for taking the time to read and any advise or comments would be much appreciated!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hi everyone,

I am a NZ graduate who regrets not trying the HSFY option and went on instead to do Biomedical Science in Victoria University. I graduated with an okay but not amazing GPA and was wondering what would be the best option to try and get into graduate entry medicine.

I know there are options to do graduate entry medicine in Otago or Auckland but I don't feel like my GPA of 6.69 (might be higher as I used the general Otago calculator) is competitive enough to get in but I am hopeful as I am potentially considered rural. My last two years are better 6.91 but not nearly competitive enough for Auckland.

Are there any others paths that I need to be aware of?

I am going to be working full time this year but want to take as many exams, tests and apply to all my potential pathways.

So far I am planning on taking the UMAT (UCAT since it's being changed now?) and GAMSAT.

I am trying to apply for NZ, Australia and Ireland (as I have citizenship there and potentially get domestic fees in some universities).

I took the GAMSAT this year and got a 58 and hoping to get a better score this coming March.

I also took the UMAT in my final year as a practice and scored 50/46/50 I am still unsure if this was competitive for graduate entry but I didn't end up applying that year for medicine because I wanted to see what other options I had.

It's a bit confusing but I was just wondering if anyone would be able to give me some advice on what would be the best step for me as I was unsure during my undergraduate years but am now certain that I want to pursue medicine. Should I go back and get an honours to bring my GPA or is there other pathways I can take?

Thanks for taking the time to read and any advise or comments would be much appreciated!

For entry in Australia, you'd be eligible for both the GAMSAT and the UCAT/non-standard pathways, which you seem to be aware of. I'm not sure what your GPA converts to in Australia (out of 7.00), so you'd need to find that out. For non-standard UCAT entry, you'd need a GPA of 4.5ish for JMP, and closer to 6.00 for WSU and the higher the better for UNSW and JCU. I'm not sure what you need for Curtin, probably again the higher the better.

Your previous UMAT would not have been competitive for any UMAT-based non-standard entry unis, but given they're all UCAT now, that might not matter, we have nothing we can really advise on that front, it's a wait and see factor.

Your previous GAMSAT would also have struggled to be competitive, so fingers crossed you'll manage to bump that up a fair bit with your re-sit.

Hopefully someone else can help out with the NZ and Ireland information, though I suspect (UCAT info aside) most of the details are here if you have a look around.

Maybe start here: Aus Med and Dent Place Offers 2018 - Collated Data
And here: NZ Med and Dent Place Offers 2018 - Collated Data

 

[honice]

For entry in Australia, you'd be eligible for both the GAMSAT and the UCAT/non-standard pathways, which you seem to be aware of. I'm not sure what your GPA converts to in Australia (out of 7.00), so you'd need to find that out. For non-standard UCAT entry, you'd need a GPA of 4.5ish for JMP, and closer to 6.00 for WSU and the higher the better for UNSW and JCU. I'm not sure what you need for Curtin, probably again the higher the better.

Your previous UMAT would not have been competitive for any UMAT-based non-standard entry unis, but given they're all UCAT now, that might not matter, we have nothing we can really advise on that front, it's a wait and see factor.

Your previous GAMSAT would also have struggled to be competitive, so fingers crossed you'll manage to bump that up a fair bit with your re-sit.

Hopefully someone else can help out with the NZ and Ireland information, though I suspect (UCAT info aside) most of the details are here if you have a look around.

Maybe start here: Aus Med and Dent Place Offers 2018 - Collated Data
And here: NZ Med and Dent Place Offers 2018 - Collated Data

Thanks for the reply!

My GPA for Australia I believe is 6.71 according to the University of Melbourne GPA calculator, right now I am wondering if it is worth it to go back to HSFY or do honours in NZ or try for Australia/NZ graduate entry with my current GPA and retake GAMSAT/UCAT.

I'll continue having a lurk around the forum! Thank again for your response.

 

[Crow]

Thanks for the reply!

My GPA for Australia I believe is 6.71 according to the University of Melbourne GPA calculator, right now I am wondering if it is worth it to go back to HSFY or do honours in NZ or try for Australia/NZ graduate entry with my current GPA and retake GAMSAT/UCAT.

I'll continue having a lurk around the forum! Thank again for your response.

Hi honice, I'll point out that each graduate entry medicine university in Australia calculates GPA differently (Melbourne's method is actually unique to all other universities) so you would be best to visit the GEMSAS website and use the calculator there to determine how each uni would calculate your GPA. A 6.7 (if calculated correctly) is reasonable but you'd need to lift your GAMSAT score quite significantly in order to be competitive (even at portfolio universities) - unless you also are classified as rural in Australia - is this the case? If you look at Deakin's program they also award significant bonuses for prior work experience and clinical work experience, financial disadvantage and Geelong residency - I am unsure whether you qualify for any of these bonuses but you may find you're more competitive there than at other universities if so.

While I'm not particularly familiar with the HSFY system, my advice is not to commit to further study if you're solely completing it for the purposes of gaining entry to medicine; all degrees/study should be completed on their own merits. Aiming for medicine is fine, but given how competitive it is it's important to consider alternative career paths - have you considered what you will do if you never gain entry to medicine? You'd be best working towards an alternative career path while continuing to aim for medicine entry via the UCAT/GAMSAT pathways, rather than gaining another qualification that you potentially can't use for employment purposes - unfortunately the reality is that most applicants do not gain entry into medicine simply due to the supply of applicants being well in excess of the number of positions available.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[honice]

Hi honice, I'll point out that each graduate entry medicine university in Australia calculates GPA differently (Melbourne's method is actually unique to all other universities) so you would be best to visit the GEMSAS website and use the calculator there to determine how each uni would calculate your GPA. A 6.7 (if calculated correctly) is reasonable but you'd need to lift your GAMSAT score quite significantly in order to be competitive (even at portfolio universities) - unless you also are classified as rural in Australia - is this the case? If you look at Deakin's program they also award significant bonuses for prior work experience and clinical work experience, financial disadvantage and Geelong residency - I am unsure whether you qualify for any of these bonuses but you may find you're more competitive there than at other universities if so.

While I'm not particularly familiar with the HSFY system, my advice is not to commit to further study if you're solely completing it for the purposes of gaining entry to medicine; all degrees/study should be completed on their own merits. Aiming for medicine is fine, but given how competitive it is it's important to consider alternative career paths - have you considered what you will do if you never gain entry to medicine? You'd be best working towards an alternative career path while continuing to aim for medicine entry via the UCAT/GAMSAT pathways, rather than gaining another qualification that you potentially can't use for employment purposes - unfortunately the reality is that most applicants do not gain entry into medicine simply due to the supply of applicants being well in excess of the number of positions available.

Good luck with your decision!

Thanks for the reply! I believe from the GEMSAS calculator I used I have An unweighted GPA of 6.69 weigjted GPA of 6.72 and for Melbourne its 6.71.

Hopefully I can lift up my GAMSAT as last time I did the exam it was more of a practice that anything else so if I do end up taking it again next year I will have more time to prepare. I basically went in with 2-3 weeks of prep and not much by the end as I was juggling a new job.

That being said I am looking through other people with my degree from VUW who went back to do HSFY and so if I do go back to HSFY I would have to postpone retaking the GAMSAT and other graduate endevours. If I dont get in I was hoping to use the HSFY to get into other courses such as Optometry, Audiology etc so I suppose I do have a back up plan if I do go into HSFY.

Thanks again for your help!

 

[A1]

... and so if I do go back to HSFY I would have to postpone retaking the GAMSAT and other graduate endevours.

I wonder why this^. You can do HSFY and retake GAMSAT in the same year, if the GAMSAT comes up good apply to the Aus grad schools.

 

[honice]

I wonder why this^. You can do HSFY and retake GAMSAT in the same year, if the GAMSAT comes up good apply to the Aus grad schools.

I suppose i was just thinking of how to maximise the likelihood of getting in all the pathways and I've heard that HSFY is intense and cut offs are 8.25+ and even with those scores I would need good UMAT and MMI. I've just been lurking on the site and found people with 8.25 and 80% UMAT get declined so I'm not sure if I should risk my GPA to get in through HSFY for retaking the GAMSAT but I suppose that way I can maximize my options if I got to HSFY and take the GAMSAT. I'm not sure how much time I can put aside to prepare for the GAMSAT while in HSFY. I suppose I am just feeling out what is attainable for me at the moment.

 

[unknownuser123]

Tossing up between studying at USYD BSc or CSU (charles sturt). I want to go to CSU but my only concern is because it it a lesser ranked uni, GEMAS or other GPA calculating bodies (i.e. Unis that dont use GEMSAS) will scale down my GPA as compared to USYD. Does anyone know if this is true?

https://gemsas.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/GEMSAS-GPA-guidelines.pdf

Ive seen this link, and it appears that for GEMSAS uni's, CSU = USYD GPA (i.e. if I get an 85 in a course at CSU or at USYD, I get awarded a 7 so there is no advantageous scaling b/w unis). I am looking at both medical and dental schools across Australia.

Also as an aside hypothetical, if I did 2 years out of 3 of a BSc at USYD and then decided to go to CSU (or any other uni) for a year and then came back to USYD and finished the final year off, how does this affect my GPA (i.e. will they take year 2 USYD, year 1 CSU, year 3 USYD FTE or just USYD if I end up there or just CSU if I continue on from 1st year all the way to 3rd year and forget about USYD?)

 

[A1]

Ive seen this link, and it appears that for GEMSAS uni's, CSU = USYD GPA (i.e. if I get an 85 in a course at CSU or at USYD, I get awarded a 7 so there is no advantageous scaling b/w unis).

Gemsas doesn't care about your uni's rank, only the percentage marks of your individual units and it's 80+ for Gemsas 7.

As for your hypothetical it's too complex to go into details due to the transfer of units, in general if you do more than 3 years of Bachelor study they use the most recent 3 FTE years.

 

[Crow]

Ive seen this link, and it appears that for GEMSAS uni's, CSU = USYD GPA (i.e. if I get an 85 in a course at CSU or at USYD, I get awarded a 7 so there is no advantageous scaling b/w unis). I am looking at both medical and dental schools across Australia.

In addition to what A1 has said, things to consider:

- If a university you go to doesn’t record final percentage scores for each unit and only records the final grade (7, 6 etc) this is potentially a disadvantage when you apply for postgraduate entry further down the line. For example, if you achieved 83% in a unit, this would be recorded as a 6.0 on your transcript, whereas in reality GEMSAS would’ve recognised it as a 7.0 if the percentage score was available. GEMSAS has a system to try and correct this and scales up GPA accordingly, but whether this effectively achieves equity is contentious (it has worked against me personally). Whether USyd and CSU do / do not record percentages on the final academic transcript I do not know, but you may wish to look into this.

- If you are considering Flinders University, they take 85+=7 in comparison to GEMSAS which takes 80+=7. You should aim for 85+ in your units if you have plans to apply to Flinders down the line.

- Given your goal is to gain entry into medicine or dentistry, why have you decided on a Bachelor of Science? Medicine and dentistry are both incredibly competitive courses; the majority of applicants will not gain entry. It is a better idea to work towards an alternative career path with the aim to eventually gain entry to medicine and dentistry, than potentially study a degree that won't provide you with good/any employment prospects at the end (not to mention the financial contribution and time investment). Please read this thread if you haven't already done so: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants

If you haven't already considered a back-up career I'd highly recommend doing so. If you have questions about alternative career paths feel free to ask.

 

[unknownuser123]

In addition to what A1 has said, things to consider:
- Given your goal is to gain entry into medicine or dentistry, why have you decided on a Bachelor of Science? Medicine and dentistry are both incredibly competitive courses; the majority of applicants will not gain entry. It is a better idea to work towards an alternative career path with the aim to eventually gain entry to medicine and dentistry, than potentially study a degree that won't provide you with good/any employment prospects at the end (not to mention the financial contribution and time investment). Please read this thread if you haven't already done so: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants
If you haven't already considered a back-up career I'd highly recommend doing so. If you have questions about alternative career paths feel free to ask.

Thanks Crow for the beast response. Only reason I'd consider doing BSc is because it is very much more theoretical than, say, a Bachelor of Physio or Pharmacy. In that sense, I feel like theoretical subjects are easier to score higher marks than more practical subjects just because of the nature of how practicals are examined. Theoretical subjects like anatomy are literally yes/no type, while a practical subject can be subjective. The trade-off is that obviously you don't have any career prospects after. But what are your thoughts to this?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Thanks Crow for the beast response. Only reason I'd consider doing BSc is because it is very much more theoretical than, say, a Bachelor of Physio or Pharmacy. In that sense, I feel like theoretical subjects are easier to score higher marks than more practical subjects just because of the nature of how practicals are examined. Theoretical subjects like anatomy are literally yes/no type, while a practical subject can be subjective. The trade-off is that obviously you don't have any career prospects after. But what are your thoughts to this?

Crow did a biomedical science degree and Regrets it with a capital R. I did a psychology degree and do not

These things are obviously a very personal choice, but non-career degrees really do set you up to struggle to find employment at the end (particularly if you don't make it into medicine, which is the statistical probability). I guess it depends on how important a factor that is to you (both now, and later thinking about when you might want to be buying a house, etc). Doing a degree just to score high marks, just to get into medicine, is a pathway fraught with (financial and emotional) danger.

I'm sure Crow will also weigh in.

 

[unknownuser123]

Crow did a biomedical science degree and Regrets it with a capital R. I did a psychology degree and do not

These things are obviously a very personal choice, but non-career degrees really do set you up to struggle to find employment at the end (particularly if you don't make it into medicine, which is the statistical probability). I guess it depends on how important a factor that is to you (both now, and later thinking about when you might want to be buying a house, etc). Doing a degree just to score high marks, just to get into medicine, is a pathway fraught with (financial and emotional) danger.

I'm sure Crow will also weigh in.

haha yeah true. Fuar, so you finished psych and then went UTAS or mid-way transfer? I guess I've got to weight in does getting higher marks outweigh job prospects or visa- versa, still got a bit of time to decide.

 

[Mana]

haha yeah true. Fuar, so you finished psych and then went UTAS or mid-way transfer? I guess I've got to weight in does getting higher marks outweigh job prospects or visa- versa, still got a bit of time to decide.

Nope, LMG! is a fully qualified psychologist and probably a huge loss to her specialty now that she's in medicine.



As someone who interviews people for graduate entry it really strikes me as to why you want to do medicine (a highly clinical career generally with loads of contact) and then decide to enrol in a degree that you personally admit is theoretical rather than practical.

It sounds like a seriously incongruent decision and really shows where your true motivations lie. If you have a passion for patient care, then there are loads of other allied health careers that offer the opportunity for clinical patient contact and making personal differences in people's lives and all that jazz. Congruent decisions make for great interviews but also for satisfying backup careers.

Science is an important career for the advancement of society and is just as noble a pursuit as medicine, but it just shows me exactly what motivates them (i.e. NOT patient care), let alone the entire career pathway thing mentioned in the pitfalls article.



Also, if you hate subjective marking due to non-theoretical natures of subjects then you are gonna absolutely HATE medicine and you should seriously reconsider doing something else because goodness knows every single clinical exam, reflective essay and group assigment is going to be living hell for you.