Non-standard Medicine Entry

[Mana]

Hello all! I hope everyone’s well!
I’ve just done some serious research into University of Adelaide and I’m not sure if I’m reading this correct or if I’m just delirious...
can someone please confirm that their undergrad has a pathway of entry without the UCAT, MMI etc for rural applicants? ——
———
“Rural Background Entry Pathway: Applicants who, as of 31 December in the year prior to degree commencement, have spent at least five consecutive years, or 10 years cumulatively, in an area with an Australian Standard Geographic Classification - Remoteness Areas (ASGC-RA) of ASG-RA 2-5 - since birth (i.e. during any period of their life), are eligible to apply under the Rural Background Entry Pathway. The time frame is based on the location of an applicant’s primary residence. Potential applicants can check their location using the following link: DoctorConnect - Locator. Filter your search using the ASGS Remoteness Areas (2016) layer. To be considered for the Rural Background Entry Pathway, applicants must submit an application to SATAC in the normal way, for either/both the Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery (314552) or Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery (Bonded Medical place) (314553) and must also submit a Statutory Declaration form to SATAC, confirming they have spent at least 5 consecutive years, or 10 years cumulatively in a rural area (ASGA-RA 2-5) since birth. Applicants must submit this form to SATAC within 5 WORKING DAYS of submitting their SATAC application. A Statutory Declaration form can be downloaded at www.satac.edu.au/documents/ruralstatdec.pdf.
....
And then

Work and life experience (including previous year 12 qualifications):

• Completed a non-recent SACE or equivalent secondary education qualification with a competitive selection rank, including the International Baccalaureate Diploma (IB), or
• Special Tertiary Admissions Test (STAT)

——————-


Meaning that If I was to apply with a 173 STAT and rurality (as mentioned previously I’ve lived remote nearly my whole life) that could be a possible entry?

Trying to get my head around this..
Thanks!
Chloe

Unfortunately no, you will need to sit the UCAT (and then do an interview/MMI etc), as per page 5 of the Adelaide Admissions guide: https://health.adelaide.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2020-mbbs-admissions-guide-domestic_0.pdf

"All applicants, with the exception of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Pathway (page 9), are required to register and sit for the UCAT."

 

[A1]

Meaning that If I was to apply with a 173 STAT and rurality (as mentioned previously I’ve lived remote nearly my whole life) that could be a possible entry?

Adding to Mana's reply, I found this document > https://www.satac.edu.au/documents/adelaide_stat_work_life_experience_2019.pdf

Adelaide Medicine - STAT: Required, Work/Life Experience: No, Other Criteria: UCAT & Interview.

So basically it's a way for mature-aged students who don't have an ATAR plus have not done any tertiary study to apply with STAT instead. The rest of the requirements are the same.

 

[conrs]

Hello! Just looking at WSU's admission criteria next year and the GPA breakdowns for each year of study. I'm guessing it's a stupid question with an obvious answer, but say if I am in my third year (of a four year course) of studies this year, when I apply later in the year will my GPA cutoff be '3 years or more but incomplete studies' or '1 year or more but incomplete studies', given that in August/whenever applications are due I won't have completed my third year yet? Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been answered before

 

[A1]

Hello! Just looking at WSU's admission criteria next year and the GPA breakdowns for each year of study. I'm guessing it's a stupid question with an obvious answer, but say if I am in my third year (of a four year course) of studies this year, when I apply later in the year will my GPA cutoff be '3 years or more but incomplete studies' or '1 year or more but incomplete studies', given that in August/whenever applications are due I won't have completed my third year yet? Thanks in advance and sorry if this has been answered before

It counts as at end of the academic year so you will be 3 years but incomplete.

 

[conrs]

It counts as at end of the academic year so you will be 3 years but incomplete.

Amazing thank you!!

 

[Nikki.S]

Hi everyone, I am currently a third year student in Bachelor of Science at UWS. I want to hopefully graduate by the end of 2019 and currently my GPA is 5.125/7 and I am going to try and increase my GPA. I am trying for UCAT this year but should I also try out for the GAMSAT (September) and can anyone else tell me if I am better off in undergraduate med or postgraduate med? I really want to get in to undergraduate med at WSU but I want to keep my options open of course :yes:

 

[Crow]

Hi everyone, I am currently a third year student in Bachelor of Science at UWS. I want to hopefully graduate by the end of 2019 and currently my GPA is 5.125/7 and I am going to try and increase my GPA. I am trying for UCAT this year but should I also try out for the GAMSAT (September) and can anyone else tell me if I am better off in undergraduate med or postgraduate med? I really want to get in to undergraduate med at WSU but I want to keep my options open of course :yes:

If you have the money then there’s no harm in sitting the September GAMSAT, however be aware that unless you score highly enough for an interview at USyd or UQ (you’ll need a score of at least ~93rd %ile based on past admission cycles) then you won’t be competitive for graduate entry as a result of your GPA.

Statistical likelihood probably suggests your chances are better with the undergraduate pathway (though maybe not given more people sit UMAT/UCAT than GAMSAT) via UCAT (you’ll be eligible for JMP, WSU, UNSW, Bond and Curtin, though I’d wager your GPA is too low for Curtin and Bond).

If that doesn’t work out then you’ll need to consider starting a new bachelor degree or performing postgraduate study to raise your GPA and make you more competitive.

 

[Nikki.S]

If you have the money then there’s no harm in sitting the September GAMSAT, however be aware that unless you score highly enough for an interview at USyd or UQ (you’ll need a score of at least ~93rd %ile based on past admission cycles) then you won’t be competitive for graduate entry as a result of your GPA.

Statistical likelihood probably suggests your chances are better with the undergraduate pathway (though maybe not given more people sit UMAT/UCAT than GAMSAT) via UCAT (you’ll be eligible for JMP, WSU, UNSW, Bond and Curtin, though I’d wager your GPA is too low for Curtin and Bond).

If that doesn’t work out then you’ll need to consider starting a new bachelor degree or performing postgraduate study to raise your GPA and make you more competitive.

Hi, thank you for the response. I know my GPA isn't enough for Bond and Curtin so I won't be pursuing those universities. However, if I can increase my GPA to 5.5+/7 then is there a higher chance with other universities? I am doing 3 online units and one on campus unit in order to aim for higher grades to boost my GPA. If my UCAT marks don't work out this year, then I aim to try again next year for GAMSAT and UCAT. So are there other possibilities considering those factors? Thank you for your assistance

 

[Crow]

Hi, thank you for the response. I know my GPA isn't enough for Bond and Curtin so I won't be pursuing those universities. However, if I can increase my GPA to 5.5+/7 then is there a higher chance with other universities? I am doing 3 online units and one on campus unit in order to aim for higher grades to boost my GPA. If my UCAT marks don't work out this year, then I aim to try again next year for GAMSAT and UCAT. So are there other possibilities considering those factors? Thank you for your assistance

If you get straight 7s this year (assuming you’ve done 16 units and have 8 left this year) then you’ll lift your GPA to 5.75 - that’s the best possible outcome. You’ll need to use the GPA calculator on the GEMSAS website and determine what your GEMSAS GPA will be (it is usually higher than the GPA on the transcript) and then let us know so we can provide further advice.

Regardless, non-rural applicants with GPAs below 6.5 generally require outstanding GAMSAT scores, portfolios and interviews to be competitive at GEMSAS universities.

As for the undergraduate schools you’re eligible for, you’ll need to lift your raw GPA to 5.6 or above to be eligible at WSU. From there, GPA is a hurdle and interview invites are based solely off UCAT result (same at JMP). I imagine your GPA will be too low for UNSW as well, unfortunately.

ETA: I suggest you read this article: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants. It’s important to have a back up plan in place given how competitive medicine entry can be - you don’t want to spend years of your life sitting GAMSAT/UCAT over and over without working towards an alternative career path in the process (assuming you don’t already have a back up career plan).

 

[A1]

However, if I can increase my GPA to 5.5+/7 then is there a higher chance with other universities?

Your GPA is good for JMP, and WSU if you are GWS. If non-GWS you will need 5.6+ requiring 5 HDs + 3 Ds or better this year.

Other than these two schools it doesn't look possible elsewhere, neither Bond Curtin nor UNSW JCU. All other undergrad schools accept school leaver applicants only.

 

[Nikki.S]

If you get straight 7s this year (assuming you’ve done 16 units and have 8 left this year) then you’ll lift your GPA to 5.75 - that’s the best possible outcome. You’ll need to use the GPA calculator on the GEMSAS website and determine what your GEMSAS GPA will be (it is usually higher than the GPA on the transcript) and then let us know so we can provide further advice.

Regardless, non-rural applicants with GPAs below 6.5 generally require outstanding GAMSAT scores, portfolios and interviews to be competitive at GEMSAS universities.

As for the undergraduate schools you’re eligible for, you’ll need to lift your raw GPA to 5.6 or above to be eligible at WSU. From there, GPA is a hurdle and interview invites are based solely off UCAT result (same at JMP). I imagine your GPA will be too low for UNSW as well, unfortunately.

ETA: I suggest you read this article: Common pitfalls to avoid for year 12 school leavers and other medicine applicants. It’s important to have a back up plan in place given how competitive medicine entry can be - you don’t want to spend years of your life sitting GAMSAT/UCAT over and over without working towards an alternative career path in the process (assuming you don’t already have a back up career plan).

Many of the universities offering postgraduate medicine have a hurdle of 5.0/7 but I can see why a higher GAMSAT score will be needed. It's a bit disheartening but realistic so I will see what I can do. Yeah, I realised UNSW is out of the picture too. Yes, I do live in the GWS region as well.
What is the GEMSAS GPA calculator for? does that help to determine the future GPA? sorry I am a bit confused there.
I put my current results in to the GEMSAS GPA calculator and got 5.75.
Does straight 7s mean HDs?

Your GPA is good for JMP, and WSU if you are GWS. If non-GWS you will need 5.6+ requiring 5 HDs + 3 Ds or better this year.

Other than these two schools it doesn't look possible elsewhere, neither Bond Curtin nor UNSW JCU. All other undergrad schools accept school leaver applicants only.

That is okay, I am also considering postgraduate courses for medicine. Thank you for your help

 

[Crow]

Many of the universities offering postgraduate medicine have a hurdle of 5.0/7 but I can see why a higher GAMSAT score will be needed.

Yes, it's a minimum requirement with little significance, to be honest - it's only significant at UQ and USyd which determine interview invites solely from GAMSAT score once one has met the GPA hurdle. For the other graduate entry universities, the vast majority of non-rural applicants that are successful at gaining a place offer will have GPAs above 6.5.

What is the GEMSAS GPA calculator for? does that help to determine the future GPA? sorry I am a bit confused there.

Your raw GPA on your transcript will be converted so that it can be equitably compared to students from other universities (some universities take HD as 80% + whereas others take HD as 85% + so it is supposed to balance the playing field out).

I suggest you take a read of the GEMSAS guide (https://gemsas.edu.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2019-Medicine-GEMSAS-Admissions-Guide-v1.4.pdf) to gain a better understanding of how the graduate entry process works. Once you've done that, we will be happy to give you further advice. Note that that is the 2019 entry guide and a 2020 guide will be released shortly with information relevant to the upcoming admissions cycle.

 

[Deleted member 36271]

Hey, I was just wondering if I were to study HSFY at The University of Otago or BSc at The University of Auckland, would I still be able to apply as an undergraduate school-leaver for medicine in Australia the following year if I don't get into medical school in NZ. Thanks.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hey, I was just wondering if I were to study HSFY at The University of Otago or BSc at The University of Auckland, would I still be able to apply as an undergraduate school-leaver for medicine in Australia the following year if I don't get into medical school in NZ. Thanks.

No, you would be a non-standard applicant and would only be eligible for universities with a non-standard entry pathway. Have a read through this thread for more information. If you have more questions (after you’ve done some research for yourself), feel free to ask them here.

 

[jack06]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is the wrong forum but I'm struggling to understand where I might be able to fit. A little history, I'm a paramedic (trained on-the-job, diploma) and then after 4yrs or so post qualifying I went straight into my masters degree (3yrs part time) and finished that last year. Since then I've done about 4 subjects of a bachelor of nursing (GPA 6, I kind of did the nursing and masters at the same time, idiot) and I'm currently signed up for 3 subjects this semester too.

I'm just not sure what they'd use or how they'd calculate my GPA for the purpose of a med application, everything I've read is for a bachelor and full time study - is it different or am I being obtuse?! I looked up my WAM on the GEMSAS chart and it corresponds to GPA 6 but I assume this isn't the correct way to use the table...and unfortunately my uni used a 4.0 system for my masters, so I'm struggling a touch to work it all out hence this post to ask for any insight?!

Next query, I've lived RA5 for the past 3-4yrs and RA3 for the 6yrs prior to that and I'm wondering what (if much of any) sort of advantage that might give you when applying for med? I ask because I'm mostly interested in JCU for undergrad (primarily because I can apply this year and it's location is convenient). I have a friend currently at JCU and he seemed to think GPA was not excessively important with most emphasis is on the application and I've read similarly here.

I know the fact I'm a para means nothing special in this arena (I'm not deluded!), but I think my experiences can help me write a competitive application for JCU but I just need to gauge my GPA a bit better first. Oh and FYI I haven't mentioned GAMSAT or postgrad preferences (Griffith, UQ) yet because I missed the cutoff date so have to sit later this/next year to maybe open up some other unis and this'll also depend though on sorting out my GPA...

Any help be appreciated - thanks in advance!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is the wrong forum but I'm struggling to understand where I might be able to fit. A little history, I'm a paramedic (trained on-the-job, diploma) and then after 4yrs or so post qualifying I went straight into my masters degree (3yrs part time) and finished that last year. Since then I've done about 4 subjects of a bachelor of nursing (GPA 6, I kind of did the nursing and masters at the same time, idiot) and I'm currently signed up for 3 subjects this semester too.

I'm just not sure what they'd use or how they'd calculate my GPA for the purpose of a med application, everything I've read is for a bachelor and full time study - is it different or am I being obtuse?! I looked up my WAM on the GEMSAS chart and it corresponds to GPA 6 but I assume this isn't the correct way to use the table...and unfortunately my uni used a 4.0 system for my masters, so I'm struggling a touch to work it all out hence this post to ask for any insight?!

Next query, I've lived RA5 for the past 3-4yrs and RA3 for the 6yrs prior to that and I'm wondering what (if much of any) sort of advantage that might give you when applying for med? I ask because I'm mostly interested in JCU for undergrad (primarily because I can apply this year and it's location is convenient). I have a friend currently at JCU and he seemed to think GPA was not excessively important with most emphasis is on the application and I've read similarly here.

I know the fact I'm a para means nothing special in this arena (I'm not deluded!), but I think my experiences can help me write a competitive application for JCU but I just need to gauge my GPA a bit better first. Oh and FYI I haven't mentioned GAMSAT or postgrad preferences (Griffith, UQ) yet because I missed the cutoff date so have to sit later this/next year to maybe open up some other unis and this'll also depend though on sorting out my GPA...

Any help be appreciated - thanks in advance!

Hello! Welcome to MSO.

If you're applying for graduate entry medicine, then yes, I think you need a completed bachelor degree (Crow can advise further), but if you're open to considering undergraduate (non-standard) entry, which it seems you are, then that opens you some doors (and you've posted your question in the right spot for advice on that!).

You don't need a completed degree to apply for non-standard entry (unless you're applying to Curtin and aren't a current Curtin student). If your GPA is 6.00 according to GEMSAS then it's more than enough for JMP, and if you do indeed meet rural applicant criteria (more on that in a moment), then you're likely competitive for a number of other options, too (JCU, and then UNSW and WSU depending on your UCAT and what your GPA ends up being, also UNSW will still look at your ATAR or ATAR equivalent, but for rural applicants, I think it's a pretty reasonable cut-off).

I think you can apply to UAC for a GPA conversion if you want to be sure of where you actually sit.

To be considered under rural applicant pathways at almost all (all?) universities, you need to have lived in a rural location for 5 years consecutively, or 10 years cumulatively. From what you've said above, I'm thinking you meet the 5 years consecutively (at a minimum), and therefore should definitely look into any additional application elements required for these pathways and avail yourself of them! Having a rural background is catered for differently from uni to uni but it ranges from lowered ATAR/GPA/UMAT(/UCAT?) requirements through to actually having your degree of rurality included in the ranking of your application. For example, JCU look very favourably upon rural candidates (and the more rural the better), so your RA5 will definitely be a bonus there, which is great considering this is where you're most looking to.

I hope this helps a bit

 

[Crow]

You do need a bachelor degree to apply via GEMSAS, but I'm not sure how they'd assess your application given you have a masters degree - I have a feeling you wouldn't be eligible, unfortunately, but I recommend you email GEMSAS and check with them.

(This is assuming I've interpreted the above correctly and you don't have a bachelor degree - is that correct?)

As per LMG!, your rural background certainly puts you in good steed for JCU - rurality index, as well as your written application and interview, are more important factors for selection there than GPA is. A 6.0 is definitely sufficient for an RA-5 applicant, though keep in mind that your GEMSAS GPA is likely to be higher than your raw GPA (which is what JCU will be using).

 

[jack06]

Thank you for the quick replies, yes you are correct I don't currently have a bachelor degree - never needed one to do my job so I went straight to the masters to open up more doors within the ambulance service. But I have done 4 subjects of my nursing degree in 2016 - so would JCU use that GPA or the one from my completed masters degree (finished in 2018)?

Or is it whichever you have studied most recently, and hence by studying 3 subjects this semester they will use my nursing? Apologies but I just want to get it right. FWIW 4 subjects is a full semester work load and honestly my marks have been marginally better in the bachelor from my rough calculations (unfortunately!).

I did call Griffith the other day and their requirement for postgrad is "completion of a bachelor OR any key degree with a GPA over 5" which I was assuming I'd meet but I need to investigate more if I wanted to try go down that path. But I'm definitely more interested in JCU for their location and program - I do enjoy rural and remote healthcare which seems to be their forte. Alternatively I could complete a conversion degree - do you know if they're accepted by postgrad courses? Sorry, I know this isn't a postgrad forum but just in case you had any insight, I'll head over to pagingdr and see if there's more info too.

Due to my age, the shortest path would be the preferred path! But I'm not shy of a little hard work either.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply - cheers!

Quick update - I just had a chat with JCU and they said they will look at my most recent GPA and then take any other courses into consideration along with rurality and written responses. That makes me happy because it might mean they'll primarily use my nursing GPA which as I said is marginally higher (5.7 v 6) and for which I am currently taking subjects and hence able to improve my GPA.. Does that sound correct? Still keen to hear any other thoughts on my post above.

Cheers!

 

[Crow]

Does that sound correct?

It does sound correct - JCU like to use the results from the most recent studies - however, I’d imagine they may also take your masters into account somewhat because you’ll have completed less than 1FTE year of study (8 units or equivalent) in your nursing degree at the end of this year.

Note that it’s only speculation on my part - I’m not fully aware of what goes on for applicants with more complicated tertiary study records at JCU, but generally one needs to have at least 1FTE year of study completed to be eligible.

As for going through the GEMSAS system, you should need to have at least 3 FTE years of study completed to be eligible - I’m a little sceptical on what Griffith has told you because of this, but that’s good news for you if it’s true. Your rurality will help there as well if you end up going down that path, though with a GPA of 6 you will probably need a reasonably strong GAMSAT score to compensate. This is assuming you’ve calculated your GEMSAS GPA correctly - I would use the GPA calculator on their website rather than manually calculating it from the table if I were you.

 

[jack06]

Thanks Crow, really appreciate your insight. Hoping I can increase the nursing GPA as the main event!! But definitely happy for the masters to come into play as well but I imagine I'll rely heavily on rurality and my written responses.

I am skeptical too about Griffith so they gave me an email address to enquire further. But I'll continue with the nursing regardless and see what happens. At the very least it is another door that will open for me when I'm done playing around in an ambulance.

Still honestly figuring out if this is truly a good idea or not in my 30s...! I just feel there's a lot more satisfaction, longevity and autonomy in medicine than paramedicine or nursing for me.

Cheers again - I'll keep trying to use the GEMSAS calculator too, says it can't be used unless you log in and you can't log in until May, when applications open.