[Undergrad] Pros and Cons of each Uni

[Matt]

[offtopic]

If you wanted whinging about the course all you needed to do was ask.

Whinging means a lot more coming from someone who doesn't whinge very often, though. [/offtopic]

 

[Havox]

[offtopic]
Whinging means a lot more coming from someone who doesn't whinge very often, though. [/offtopic]

[offtopic]Except my whinging and ranting is never unfounded [/offtopic]

 

[JeremiahGreenspoon]

[offtopic]

I suppose, playing devil's advocate, if you're missing 2 out of 6 of your PPD tutorials and tutorials constitute a large part of PPD teaching, and PPD is considered to be a significant part of the course, then it may be difficult to say that you're actually being taught PPD in a meaningful way.

Distinctions and credits, in and of themselves, I think, do not mean very much except perhaps at the extremes. Grades are a fairly simplistic measure of how much you've gotten out of a course - after all many medical courses are pass/fail and many subjects even award grades for participation alone. For more complicated learning pursuits such as medicine (as opposed to simple, easily-quantifiable learning like science or maths) I think a lot of learning is ingrained within the process of being there.

A chord has sort of been struck here a little bit with me (unintentionally, of course) because I've been doing a bit of thinking lately about teaching because all of a sudden I have become responsible for a lot of medical student teaching. Slowly, but surely, I'm learning that simply lecturing my students on topics I already have a good understanding of is not the most effective way to teach them. The most effective way is to involve them in a learning process. Sorry, I've gotten a little bit off-topic in this off-topic discussion!

I just think it's hard to argue that attendance constitutes learning in the same way that achieving a good grade does, particularly for medicine where I don't believe you can fudge a credit or a distinction. You could sit in every PPD class and choose not to learn a thing, but if you're getting high marks, you're putting the effort in, and poor attendance could simply be a factor of mitigating circumstances, but you're making up the learning at another time.

It's arguable that some classes require you to be there to get the absolute most out of the learning process, but other than PBL I don't think this is necessarily the case, at least not in first year. Maybe more so in later years when I assume the practicals become less elementary, ICMs become more patient centred and PPD begins to strike a chord with more students than it does now. But to date, PBL is certainly the only attendance marked component that I feel your presence in the room really makes a significant difference to how much you learn, plus the odd ICM.

Then again, I'd hate to see things like 50% attendance becoming commonplace, so it's hard to see the university having much choice.
[/offtopic]

 

[Matt]

[offtopic]

I just think it's hard to argue that attendance constitutes learning in the same way that achieving a good grade does, particularly for medicine where I don't believe you can fudge a credit or a distinction. You could sit in every PPD class and choose not to learn a thing, but if you're getting high marks, you're putting the effort in, and poor attendance could simply be a factor of mitigating circumstances, but you're making up the learning at another time.

It's arguable that some classes require you to be there to get the absolute most out of the learning process, but other than PBL I don't think this is necessarily the case, at least not in first year. Maybe more so in later years when I assume the practicals become less elementary, ICMs become more patient centred and PPD begins to strike a chord with more students than it does now. But to date, PBL is certainly the only attendance marked component that I feel your presence in the room really makes a significant difference to how much you learn, plus the odd ICM.

Then again, I'd hate to see things like 50% attendance becoming commonplace, so it's hard to see the university having much choice.

Perhaps the issue is more the delivery/quality of PPD than it is the attendance requirements. Although I'm almost certain PPD is delivered with the intent of 'being there' also equating to meaningful learning even if it maybe doesn't achieve that goal.[/offtopic]

 

[JeremiahGreenspoon]

[offtopic]

Perhaps the issue is more the delivery/quality of PPD than it is the attendance requirements. Although I'm almost certain PPD is delivered with the intent of 'being there' also equating to meaningful learning even if it maybe doesn't achieve that goal.

I don't know, I think a lot of the benefit of PPD comes from self-reflection rather than sitting in a room talking about things. PPD isn't really a brainstorming subject in the sense that PBL is, although in some scenarios such as confrontational issues the group discussion has been fairly stimulating.

I guess the gripe comes down to the method UWS uses to enforce the attendance, and the lack of consideration of mitigating circumstances. For instance, if my partner misses a particular class, she has to submit remediation work that covers the learning issues. This seems more beneficial than just tallying up attendance then withholding exam results/threatening with failure if you're below a certain level.

Gee this did wander off a bit...[/offtopic]

 

[Dr Worm]

RE: UWS/ the OP

I think it's a great course. I was always likely to struggle with attendance, rote learning, and biochem, and I do, but that's a function of my circs and educational experience, not the course. It's small enough (I think 120 or so in our year), and the clinical exposure from the beginning thing has been HUGE for me (partly because I think it's important, but - admittedly - partly because I just really enjoy it and it appeals to my learning style/interests).

Honestly, the gripes I have (second J, this was a weird, weird week) are largely trivial, and to do with things like IT and implementation, and the particularly stupid assignment due next week. Overall, med is very hard to compare with other degrees. I know there are complaints one could make, but honestly, the staff, the content, the students and the facilities are terrific. (Not perfect, but wholly different to other courses, vastly better resourced). Also, all the cool kids on MSO are UWS .

 

[matt888]

This thread is of particular interest to me (even [MENTION=814]Matt[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7338]JeremiahGreenspoon[/MENTION]’s slightly offtopic discussion) as UTAS/JMP are also my top preferences and it would be great to hear more from JMP/UTAS students as to preferences to either course. Ideally someone who had completed both courses would present the most accurate comparison but obviously that isn’t going to happen.

In addition to [MENTION=15701]Droppagrogan[/MENTION]’s questions on course specifics I would also love to hear about Newcastle vs Hobart. And more specifically if anyone has any opinions of the clinical placements in the later years of the each course. From what I understand UTAS may have an advantage for someone with a family because even though you may end up in Launceston or Burnie they are both relatively close to Hobart (2hrs drive?). On the other hand JMP has more options for placements and you could end up at Armidale (4hrs drive(n)).

At the end of the day my priorities are pretty mixed. If I got in at either place I would be super happy and would be more than happy for my wife to choose. Incidentally she is an ICU nurse/midwife and any advise on John Hunter v Hobart Hospitals would also help the decision and be appreciated.

 

[Jordan]

Hey Matt, I'm first year in the JMP so I can't give you a huge amount of idea about the clinical placement stuff later on but I know about the pre-clin side of the course pretty well.

Overall I'm really happy and echo Dr Worm's sentiments - there are sucky parts about the course but they're largely trivial and certainly not worth you discounting the JMP as an option. I really enjoy how much it's self-directed and I'm given a lot of freedom to do what I like when I like. With that, however, comes a lot of responsibility to make sure you get things done - we get examined on things which NEVER come up in class and the faculty don't give a crap if you have a problem with that. A lot of people are struggling with this but I actually really love the autonomy. It also means we haven't got a huge amount of class to attend - 15 hours a week in first semester then about 10 on average from second semester first year. This works really well for me because I have to work to support myself and it makes it easier to juggle work, study and having a life.

In terms of early clinical exposure, UWS definitely pips us. There's a tutorial once a fortnight in first semester then from second semester we have to get over to the hospital for self-directed clinical practise - this semester we have to go and practise taking histories but I know in later years they have to practise exams and such on patients in the hospitals. I definitely don't feel like I'm missing out on clinical exposure though and it increases over the next two years then full time in the hospital from 4th year.

A quick note on UTAS - Launceston and Burnie are both around 4 hours drive from Hobart so it's hardly a commutable distance in your clinical years.

Whichever uni you end up at, there is a VERY high likelihood that you'll have to move at least once for your studies and this by no means ends when you graduate. You'll have to move to your internship hospital and then depending on where you choose to go from there you're likely to have to keep moving around for a few years at least. It's just a part of life in medicine and there's no real avoiding it. As such, moving around for clinical placements is a little bit irrelevant when choosing between these three unis.

Let me know if you want to know anything else about the JMP

 

[JeremiahGreenspoon]

Whichever uni you end up at, there is a VERY high likelihood that you'll have to move at least once for your studies and this by no means ends when you graduate. You'll have to move to your internship hospital and then depending on where you choose to go from there you're likely to have to keep moving around for a few years at least. It's just a part of life in medicine and there's no real avoiding it. As such, moving around for clinical placements is a little bit irrelevant when choosing between these three unis.

Just on that, [MENTION=11113]matt888[/MENTION] might experience things a bit differently. When I was exploring Tas, they had options for people with extenuating circumstances to stay in Hobart for their entire clinical years, and this included things that promote less flexibility such as a spouse or children.
UWS clinical schools are all within reasonable radius of each other, there is the chance of a rural placement to Lismore I think but it's not a necessity if you don't want it to be/give good reason. So no moving would be necessary in the case of Utas or UWS, but I'm not sure what the JMP network is like.

And if matt manages to have some kids by the time internship comes around, moving can be minimised with some special considerations granted by the Dept, depending on your hospital network, as some of them are quite favourable. I wish there were some more UTas folk around, I don't know if [MENTION=2838]n33b[/MENTION] is still here, but I learnt a lot of what I did from talking to Tas grads and more recently current students.

 

[philistine]

[offtopic]

A quick note on UTAS - Launceston and Burnie are both around 4 hours drive from Hobart so it's hardly a commutable distance in your clinical years.

:tongue-smiley-8855:

The woman rides a Vespa...very conservatively[/offtopic]

edit; wooohooo 100 posts!!! (never thought it would be used..like this).

 

[n33b]

I sure am still here, Jeremiah!

Regarding the need to move for 4th and 5th year, it is not really applicable anymore due to the popularity of the other 2 schools. Launceston is around 2.5 hours drive, not 4. Burnie is around 4 hours from Hobart, though. But like I said, Hobart is no longer the most popular school and Burnie has had to turn down (and even "kick" one person out to another school) many students. In my year, Launceston was the most popular school, and everyone who put Hobart as their first preference got it, as far as I know. From what I've asked of my junior colleagues, Burnie appears to be quite popular among the next generation... I guess what this means is things are constantly going to change and you certainly need not necessarily leave Hobart if you don't wish to... and especially, I would imagine, if you had such circumstances as needing to stay to support your family.

Re. UTas vs UNCLE, I can't really comment on UNCLE's course, but I am happy enough with the course at UTas. The teaching is good and the clinical exposure is very much adequate as far as I'm concerned. However, if you're dying to start hospital work early, then perhaps you should consider UWS, because at UTas we start clinical rotations in 3rd year (not sure when UNCLE start). One thing I do know about UNCLE though is that you only learn a basic/core level of anatomy and should you wish to learn more advanced anatomy then you can choose to do it as part of an elective course. At UTas, you learn anatomy to an extent which is probably overkill whether you want to or not. So ask yourself how much you like anatomy

And of course, ask yourself where you'd prefer to live. I had to choose between UTas and UNCLE too (I'm from Melbourne so either way had to move), and thought Tassie would be a nicer place to live and just felt good about it, so didn't bother with UNCLE. I hadn't done much research into either course, to be honest!

 

[matt888]

Thanks [MENTION=5568]ashllis91[/MENTION], [MENTION=7338]JeremiahGreenspoon[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2838]n33b[/MENTION] for all the helpful information. They all sound like great courses with pros and cons for each. Hopefully I'll have the luxury of being able to pick and choose but I don't think I'd be at all disappointed with any one of them.

It's really interesting to here about the popularity of Launceston and Burnie. Is Tassie really as beautiful as everyone claims? I am planning a visit later in the year to check it and the school out. Thanks again

 

[JeremiahGreenspoon]

Is Tassie really as beautiful as everyone claims? I am planning a visit later in the year to check it and the school out. Thanks again

Tassie is beautiful, but it depends on what makes you tick. 10 years ago I would have leapt at UTas and been up in the mountains every weekend. But it doesn't suit the stage of life our family is at and I've gotten used to everything that Sydney provides and the vibrancy, and even coming from Brisbane you might find it a bit quiet down south. We honestly had every intention of moving down there, house prices were cheap, I could have cycled to uni and there seems to be an ease to living for some, but in the end the town was just a little bit small and the climate was a little too cold. Obviously different strokes for different folks, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on it. Definitely get down there as the time we spent there certainly was much more informative than word of mouth or online research...

 

[mrlol]

Hey Matt, I'm first year in the JMP so I can't give you a huge amount of idea about the clinical placement stuff later on but I know about the pre-clin side of the course pretty well.

Overall I'm really happy and echo Dr Worm's sentiments - there are sucky parts about the course but they're largely trivial and certainly not worth you discounting the JMP as an option. I really enjoy how much it's self-directed and I'm given a lot of freedom to do what I like when I like. With that, however, comes a lot of responsibility to make sure you get things done - we get examined on things which NEVER come up in class and the faculty don't give a crap if you have a problem with that. A lot of people are struggling with this but I actually really love the autonomy. It also means we haven't got a huge amount of class to attend - 15 hours a week in first semester then about 10 on average from second semester first year. This works really well for me because I have to work to support myself and it makes it easier to juggle work, study and having a life.

In terms of early clinical exposure, UWS definitely pips us. There's a tutorial once a fortnight in first semester then from second semester we have to get over to the hospital for self-directed clinical practise - this semester we have to go and practise taking histories but I know in later years they have to practise exams and such on patients in the hospitals. I definitely don't feel like I'm missing out on clinical exposure though and it increases over the next two years then full time in the hospital from 4th year.

A quick note on UTAS - Launceston and Burnie are both around 4 hours drive from Hobart so it's hardly a commutable distance in your clinical years.

Whichever uni you end up at, there is a VERY high likelihood that you'll have to move at least once for your studies and this by no means ends when you graduate. You'll have to move to your internship hospital and then depending on where you choose to go from there you're likely to have to keep moving around for a few years at least. It's just a part of life in medicine and there's no real avoiding it. As such, moving around for clinical placements is a little bit irrelevant when choosing between these three unis.

Let me know if you want to know anything else about the JMP

So there is not that much class time in first year? Does that continue in the next couple of years? and how is balancing a job with med? I was allso wanting to have a part time job but was not sure about balancing it. Do you think you would do better/ study more if you didnt have the job?

Thanks for your answers

 

[Jordan]

I think there's a bit more in second and then more again in third year and from 4th and 5th years you're fulltime in hospitals 9-5 mon to fri (more or less...).

In terms of having a job, it works really well for me but wouldn't for other people. I'm the kind of person who manages very well with a very full plate, I love being super busy and tend to get a lot more done when I only have limited time. I work around 20-30 hours a week which is a little bit more than I'd like to be working and my studies have suffered a little but I'm definitely not going to fail or anything. There are some people who can barely manage med alone let alone a part time job though. I'd advise that perhaps you just get some savings behind you so that you don't have to work when you very first start med. If you find that you're managing well then you can go get a job or something.

 

[Dr Worm]

[MENTION=11113]matt888[/MENTION] as an aside; Most schools have some flexibility/understanding about placements and circumstances, and you may find that you can make the case that being married amounts to special circumstances = you shouldn't be sent to the middle of nowhere for a year. It's probably the kind of thing you could discuss with the school (ie, call them and ask)

 

[matt888]

Haha, I never would have thought being married would qualify you for special circumstances. For some I am sure it may be a disadvantage Seriously though, I am not too concerned. I understand that sometimes we'll have to be away, do crap shifts, get bogged down with study etc. and I am really just trying to look at the nitty gritty differences of each course I case I am lucky enough to be able to choose.
I am now trying to figure out why I didn't apply to UWS as well. I am sure I didn't meet the prerequisites of more than a year tertiary study but I can't find the reference now. It seems like a pretty good course. Too late now anyway. Thanks for your input [MENTION=5568]ashllis91[/MENTION] and @ Dr Worm

 

[ZJQ]

University = James Cook University

1. Campus: where is the campus/capuses? How big are they? Are they nice?

Campus backs onto bush land - very spacious - JCU puts a large emphasis on the Med School so our section is really nice...not all that flash for the other courses.

2. Social: Does the uni have sport teams? Pub? Hows the uni food?

Massive Social aspect at JCU - heaps of sports - great/cheap gym - good pub (and nearby pubs which offer discounts as well)

3. Student Society: Does the uni have an active medical society? What kind of activities do they organise?

Yes- JCUMSA - put on lots of great events though the year (med camp and med ball...fundrasing events as well) and they run clinical workshops (suture and plaster courses)

4. Accommodation: Is there decent on campus accommodation? How about around the uni? Prices?

Dont live on college but prices vary alot based on quality....dont know specifics.

5. Cost of living: Including rent and food?
Living at home so its great! however there are loads of nice places to stay off campus that are nearby to shops and the med school

6. Amenities: Student car park? Tennis court? Anything?
Parking is a nightmare! but there is loads of amenities at the med school (coffee cart, computer labs, individual study rooms for home groups - grps of 10 ppl)

7. Study assistance: How is the library? Lots of copies of Talley? Computers? Other learning tools (skeleton models etc)?

Havnt made it to the library yet...havnt had the need! haha.

8. International links: Any links with other universities? Overseas elective potential?

Main internationals include Malaysians and Canadians...we have some sort of agreement with their Uni's...

9. Location: Within a busy city? Or by the shores? Etc

Townsville isnt massive but its not so small its an issue....it's a really laid back place and traffic isnt a concern - its hard to stress out here!

10. Number of students: How many? Too many? How many people in PBL or per anatomy class etc?

200 Student intake this year - we have ''home groups'' of 10 ppl which are used to help organise when doing activities and what not....usually about 65 ppl in the anatomy wet labs at once...quite a large facility so its not to bad with loads of tutors and great specimens (JCU actually has a full bank of our own specimens now after collecting over the past 10yrs or so...)

11. Entertainment: How's the night life? Beach sports? Winter sports? Or pretty much boring?

We have a town strip of night clubs - its pretty alight for the size of the city....we have a large army population here (one of the largest bases in australia...) so there is always ppl in the city.

12. Worst thing: parking is an issue if u don't live on collage...just a pain having to search for one if ur in a hurry.(n)

13. Best thing: hands down we have an amazing clinical exposure here at JCU...we have simulated patients from year one...we go on placements to GP's and the hospital (next door) from year one....and we actually get to do hands on stuff. The doctors in and around Townsville really enjoy students and its defiantly a key feature of JCU.(yy) by the time i finish second year i would have complted a week with a GP in townsville...a week with a GP registrar (spec. anesthesiology) in Ayr Hospital...a week on call with QLD ambulance and a month at Thursday Island Hospital (including outreach clinics via chopper to surrounding islands)....love this course!

Is getting rural placements difficult?
I've heard that the JCU students learn more than other students. Is that true?

 

[C2H6]

Is getting rural placements difficult?
I've heard that the JCU students learn more than other students. Is that true?

I would argue getting rural placements is easier then city placements.

JCU students learn the same as any other med degree. All the med degrees in Australia have the same regulations and a degree from any uni for medicine in Australia gives the exact same qualification and job opportunities.

JCU does focus on rural medicine more in their degree (in terms of issues facing rural people) only because their placements are mainly rural QLD (because they are essentially a more rural uni then say UQ)

Also where you undertake your placements will generally be in the state of which you are studying (JCU=QLD, UNSW=NSW)

 

[miss_universe]

All the courses will learnt he same, it is REQUIRED of them to meet the national standard.