Quick Questions 2019/2020

[Crow]

This is so i can still be considered as a high school leaver when i apply for medicine/dentistry schools.

That's not how it works. If you have a tertiary record of study, you can't be considered as a school-leaver. Effectively by doing this you would just be stopping yourself from being competitive (or becoming entirely ineligible) at most, if not all, universities. If your goal is gaining entry into medicine or dentistry, I'd definitely advise against this.

 

[TheMedRudolph]

That's not how it works. If you have a tertiary record of study, you can't be considered as a school-leaver. Effectively by doing this you would just be stopping yourself from being competitive (or becoming entirely ineligible) at most, if not all, universities. If your goal is gaining entry into medicine or dentistry, I'd definitely advise against this.

Can you please explain as to why it would stop me from being competitive or entirely ineligible.

My friend's friend, in 2017, did what i outlined in my previous post and was apparently accepted as a high school leaver (Made into dentistry for that following year). I am trying to get in contact with her to follow this up.

 

[Crow]

Can you please explain as to why it would stop me from being competitive or entirely ineligible.

My friend's friend, in 2017, did what i outlined in my previous post and was apparently accepted as a high school leaver (Made into dentistry for that following year). I am trying to get in contact with her to follow this up.

[Answer below mainly applies to medicine rather than dentistry]

Apologies, I should clarify my statement - you'd still be eligible for JMP and WSU (subject to your UCAT result) and Bond but the rest of the unis would most likely be out - by taking a leave of absence you don't really have anything to gain because the fact that you have a tertiary study record already rules out most Aus unis, and by continuing tertiary study your chances at the unis that do accept non-standard applicants will either a) not change or b) be reduced by doing so.

Once you have a tertiary record of study you're only eligible for schools that accept non-standard applicants. For medicine, these are JCU, WSU, JMP, UNSW and Bond. For JMP, you need a close to credit average GPA (this is just a hurdle requirement) and for WSU, your 99 ATAR also meets the hurdle (getting an interview at these unis will then depend solely on UCAT result). For Bond they'd go off your ATAR (or possibly a combo of your ATAR and uni GPA) to get through to the psychometric testing. You'd still be eligible for these unis if you did what you proposed above as I already mentioned.

The other two (UNSW and JCU) will use your GPA in order to determine interview rankings. If you have less than 1FTE year of study (8 units or equivalent) completed, then your GPA is affected significantly. UNSW use a 50:50 ATAR:GPA combo as part of their selection criteria - they convert your GPA to an ATAR and then find the average of this value and your high school ATAR. See this table below for how we believe UAC coverts GPA to ATAR:

Note how if you've completed less than 1FTE of study, your equivalent ATAR is going to be lower than if you've done 1FTE or more. In your case, the best case scenario would be you achieving a GPA of 6.5 or better in your first semester of uni and then this being converted to a 98 ATAR - combined with your 99 from high school this would give you a 98.5. You'd need a very strong UCAT to offset the lower than average ATAR to make you competitive at UNSW, hence my "less competitive" comment from above.

I believe (not entirely certain, however) QTAC (who rank applicants for JCU, Griffith and UQ for med and dentistry) do something similar for those with a tertiary record. Again, for JCU medicine because you have less than 1FTE year of study, I think this would make your academic rank much lower and you'd need a very strong written application (and possible interview) to get a place as a non-standard applicant (especially if you're non-rural). For Griffith dentistry, you're immediately out of the running as a non-standard if you have less than 1FTE year of study.

I shouldn't comment on other dentistry schools because I'm not entirely familiar with how different universities would treat applicants who do what you are planning to (I know you'd be ineligible for UniMelb, USyd and UWA on account of having a tertiary record and Griffith and JCU due to GPA calculations explained above but can't comment for the rest - Yamster may be able to help).

Hopefully that clears things up a bit for you.

 

[TheMedRudolph]

[Answer below mainly applies to medicine rather than dentistry]

Apologies, I should clarify my statement - you'd still be eligible for JMP and WSU (subject to your UCAT result) and Bond but the rest of the unis would most likely be out - by taking a leave of absence you don't really have anything to gain because the fact that you have a tertiary study record already rules out most Aus unis, and by continuing tertiary study your chances at the unis that do accept non-standard applicants will either a) not change or b) be reduced by doing so.

Once you have a tertiary record of study you're only eligible for schools that accept non-standard applicants. For medicine, these are JCU, WSU, JMP, UNSW and Bond. For JMP, you need a close to credit average GPA (this is just a hurdle requirement) and for WSU, your 99 ATAR also meets the hurdle (getting an interview at these unis will then depend solely on UCAT result). For Bond they'd go off your ATAR (or possibly a combo of your ATAR and uni GPA) to get through to the psychometric testing. You'd still be eligible for these unis if you did what you proposed above as I already mentioned.

The other two (UNSW and JCU) will use your GPA in order to determine interview rankings. If you have less than 1FTE year of study (8 units or equivalent) completed, then your GPA is affected significantly. UNSW use a 50:50 ATAR:GPA combo as part of their selection criteria - they convert your GPA to an ATAR and then find the average of this value and your high school ATAR. See this table below for how we believe UAC coverts GPA to ATAR:

Note how if you've completed less than 1FTE of study, your equivalent ATAR is going to be lower than if you've done 1FTE or more. In your case, the best case scenario would be you achieving a GPA of 6.5 or better in your first semester of uni and then this being converted to a 98 ATAR - combined with your 99 from high school this would give you a 98.5. You'd need a very strong UCAT to offset the lower than average ATAR to make you competitive at UNSW, hence my "less competitive" comment from above.

I believe (not entirely certain, however) QTAC (who rank applicants for JCU, Griffith and UQ for med and dentistry) do something similar for those with a tertiary record. Again, for JCU medicine because you have less than 1FTE year of study, I think this would make your academic rank much lower and you'd need a very strong written application (and possible interview) to get a place as a non-standard applicant (especially if you're non-rural). For Griffith dentistry, you're immediately out of the running as a non-standard if you have less than 1FTE year of study.

I shouldn't comment on other dentistry schools because I'm not entirely familiar with how different universities would treat applicants who do what you are planning to (I know you'd be ineligible for UniMelb, USyd and UWA on account of having a tertiary record and Griffith and JCU due to GPA calculations explained above but can't comment for the rest - Yamster may be able to help).

Hopefully that clears things up a bit for you.

Thank you very much for all the effort you went to.

I've talked to the person i referenced in my last post (Started uni but took leave before the year ended), and she said that she was considered as a high school leaver for CSU dentistry (Requirement was less than one year of study), Adelaide dentistry/Possible medicine (requirement was less than 2 years of full time study) and finally Newcastle Medicine (didnt mention what the requirement was).
NOTE: got offers for both CSU and Adelaide dentistry

So in essence, If I complete 2 trimesters with a total of 30 UOC/credits (UNSW) and take program leave for the last trimester, I would still be eligible and "competitive" for JMP, UWS (You've stated my atar should get me past the hurdle, are you saying gpa doesnt matter in this situation?)and BOND. But it will disadvantage me in terms of UNSW and JCU.


Thanks so much for answering my questions, didn't intend to take up so much of your time.

 

[Crow]

So in essence, If I complete 2 trimesters with a total of 30 UOC/credits (UNSW) and take program leave for the last trimester, I would still be eligible and "competitive" for JMP, UWS (You've stated my atar should get me past the hurdle, are you saying gpa doesnt matter in this situation?)and BOND. But it will disadvantage me in terms of UNSW and JCU.

A quick look on the website tells me UNSW gives a standard unit 6 UOC (is this correct?) so you’d need to do 48 UOC in the year to have completed 1FTE year. So yes, from my understanding what you’ve stated is correct.

For students with some tertiary study but without a completed degree, WSU will look at either ATAR or GPA. If your ATAR met the hurdle then even if your GPA doesn’t, you’ve still passed the hurdle, and vice versa. Essentially because your ATAR is already above their hurdle your uni GPA (so long as you pass) doesn’t matter for WSU (at least not until the point when you have a complete degree).

 

[A1]

So in essence, If I complete 2 trimesters with a total of 30 UOC/credits (UNSW) and take program leave for the last trimester, I would still be eligible and "competitive" for JMP, UWS (You've stated my atar should get me past the hurdle, are you saying gpa doesnt matter in this situation?)and BOND. But it will disadvantage me in terms of UNSW and JCU.

Just adding that with UNSW, if by end of year you have done less than 0.75 FTE they will use your ATAR only. You should either stay below 36 UOC to make use of your ATAR 99, or do the full 48 UOC with GPA 6.5+ to help raise it to around 99.25. Between 36 & 48 UOC will drag down your ATAR.

 

[neverknow]

Hi All, hope someone sees this.

I am a recipient of Western Sydney Universities Academy Access Award for Year 11 results.

The scholarship paper states under the Terms and Conditions.

1. Scholarship has a total value of $20,000. A maximum of $5,000 (full time) per year or $2,500 (part time) per year for a maximum of four years in total.

2. This scholarship offer is conditional and subject to the recipient:
- obtaining a raw ATAR of 90 or above or IB equivalent (excludes bonus points)
- nominating any Western Sydney University Bachelors course as a preference by the on-time closing date for applicators; and
- successfully enrolling into any Western Sydney University Bachelor degree in 2020 (a quota applies to Bachelor of Medicine/ Bachelor of Surgery and Bachelor of Physiotherapy). Students may defer their offer for up to one year via the Western Sydney University Admissions process.

Can someone with more knowledge on this matter please clarify what the bolded bit means. As far as I know, this is a largely non-personal and just a computer generated scholarship. I am only interested in applying for WSU Medicine.

Would this mean that I get entitled to a lower UCAT/ATAR or perhaps some leniency in the interview.

Thanks, to anyone who replies.

If any of the mods would like more details on the t/cs of the scholarship in the case no one has asked this sort of question before, please contact me, I can send you the rest of the stuff involved with this.

 

[A1]

Can someone with more knowledge on this matter please clarify what the bolded bit means.

I'm pretty sure it means there's a quota limiting the number of MBBS students being granted this scholarship. IOW if you get into WSU MBBS (obviously with a 90+ ATAR) you meet the scholarship conditions but still no guarantee of one.

 

[neverknow]

I'm pretty sure it means there's a quota limiting the number of MBBS students being granted this scholarship. IOW if you get into WSU MBBS (obviously with a 90+ ATAR) you meet the scholarship conditions but still no guarantee of one.

Ahh, Im kinda getting the point of it.

So is it like, the person gets treated as every other applicant when applying to med and stuff.

So say, wsu med only gives 40 scholarships of this sort a year and 10 are reserved for those who get in and are an academy access recipient. From then on, they will probably stream the applicants (who got in and are academy access) based on their results. Thus, in the scenario that an 11th person also gets in and is an academy access member, they will not be able to claim this scholarship. Hence the "quota."

I suspected it to be like this since this scholarship is available to pretty much every school in the GWS area, this means around 400 schools (very rough estimate). Probably 100 of them produce candidates viable enough to be considered for medicine (some gws schools are pretty bad and not everyone wants to do med).

So will it be safe for me to assume that I still need to meet the 93.5 threshold and get a 88+ (preferably 92+ ucat) in order to have solid chances. Sorry if I rambled a bit.

I have contacted the university around 4-5 times through phone and email and they didn't reply to me at all, so now I just feel like there isn't any point trying anymore.

Thanks!

 

[A1]

So say, wsu med only gives 40 scholarships of this sort a year and 10 are reserved for those who get in and are an academy access recipient. From then on, they will probably stream the applicants (who got in and are academy access) based on their results. Thus, in the scenario that an 11th person also gets in and is an academy access member, they will not be able to claim this scholarship. Hence the "quota."

The unis often use scholarships to attract high-ATAR students (thus the 90+ condition) to join them. However they don't need to attract MBBS students, they already get more high-ATAR applicants than they need.

The way the conditions read I don't think they have an overall quota. As long as you meet the conditions and enrol in a non-MBBS/Physio course you'll get the scholarship. But if on average they give say 100 a year I wouldn't be surprised if only one or two are to MBBS.

So will it be safe for me to assume that I still need to meet the 93.5 threshold and get a 88+ (preferably 92+ ucat) in order to have solid chances.

No that's not correct. For WSU you need to be over the ATAR hurdle to be eligible, over the UCAT cutoff to get an interview, after that a place offer is all dependent on your interview. Getting 99.9 & 100th%ile doesn't give you more solid chances. (But go get them anyway for applying to the other med schools). Good luck.

 

[Ian Naga]

Hi All, hope someone sees this.

I am a recipient of Western Sydney Universities Academy Access Award for Year 11 results.

The scholarship paper states under the Terms and Conditions.

1. Scholarship has a total value of $20,000. A maximum of $5,000 (full time) per year or $2,500 (part time) per year for a maximum of four years in total.

2. This scholarship offer is conditional and subject to the recipient:
- obtaining a raw ATAR of 90 or above or IB equivalent (excludes bonus points)
- nominating any Western Sydney University Bachelors course as a preference by the on-time closing date for applicators; and
- successfully enrolling into any Western Sydney University Bachelor degree in 2020 (a quota applies to Bachelor of Medicine/ Bachelor of Surgery and Bachelor of Physiotherapy). Students may defer their offer for up to one year via the Western Sydney University Admissions process.

Can someone with more knowledge on this matter please clarify what the bolded bit means. As far as I know, this is a largely non-personal and just a computer generated scholarship. I am only interested in applying for WSU Medicine.

As they select approx 60 GWS students every year, and I am sure they all meet the ATAR requirement for this scholarship, I don't know if they can afford to give scholarship to all 60 students. Hence, they may have a quota for MD students.

This is what they say in the AMC accreditation report for WSU:

"The School has targeted access schemes for students of GWS origin in addition to the Indigenous Entry Scheme. Scholarships that are available for these pathways are promoted on the School website, during external engagement and upon request. The School actively promotes scholarships that are available to students once enrolled in the program. In addition, the Chair of the Admissions Committee and Dean are reviewing the possibility of a refugee pathway with a supported scholarship. "

Enrolment figures 2017
====================
Student intake----------------- 2017
Students admitted ------------ 134
Domestic ----------------------- 103
Indigenous students ----------8
GWS Region students -------- 60
Non GWS region students ---43
International students ------- 31 (3 IMU)


"The School’s mission reflects the needs of its Greater Western Sydney (GWS), Rural and Indigenous communities, and the admissions policy and entry pathways support this. Admission requirements are clearly stated, with different ATAR thresholds for Greater Western Sydney and non-Greater Western Sydney school leavers."

"The final decisions on offers are made from a ranked list based on the candidates’ performance within the MMI (75%) and UMAT score (25%),with the ATAR providing a final threshold for school leaver applicants. The eight active MMI stations are written by academics with the support of an organisational psychologist and include: motivation to do medicine, understanding communication, teamwork, empathy, altruism, verbal communication, ethics, self-care and wellbeing, decision making and interest in Greater Western Sydney. The Admissions Committee are mindful of the coachable elements of UMAT and are reviewing its place in the selection process."

 

[A1]

"The final decisions on offers are made from a ranked list based on the candidates’ performance within the MMI (75%) and UMAT score (25%),with the ATAR providing a final threshold for school leaver applicants."

And here we've been told several times it's all on the MMI !

 

[neverknow]

As they select approx 60 GWS students every year, and I am sure they all meet the ATAR requirement for this scholarship, I don't know if they can afford to give scholarship to all 60 students. Hence, they may have a quota for MD students.

This is what they say in the AMC accreditation report for WSU:

"The School has targeted access schemes for students of GWS origin in addition to the Indigenous Entry Scheme. Scholarships that are available for these pathways are promoted on the School website, during external engagement and upon request. The School actively promotes scholarships that are available to students once enrolled in the program. In addition, the Chair of the Admissions Committee and Dean are reviewing the possibility of a refugee pathway with a supported scholarship. "

Enrolment figures 2017
====================
Student intake----------------- 2017
Students admitted ------------ 134
Domestic ----------------------- 103
Indigenous students ----------8
GWS Region students -------- 60
Non GWS region students ---43
International students ------- 31 (3 IMU)


"The School’s mission reflects the needs of its Greater Western Sydney (GWS), Rural and Indigenous communities, and the admissions policy and entry pathways support this. Admission requirements are clearly stated, with different ATAR thresholds for Greater Western Sydney and non-Greater Western Sydney school leavers."

"The final decisions on offers are made from a ranked list based on the candidates’ performance within the MMI (75%) and UMAT score (25%),with the ATAR providing a final threshold for school leaver applicants. The eight active MMI stations are written by academics with the support of an organisational psychologist and include: motivation to do medicine, understanding communication, teamwork, empathy, altruism, verbal communication, ethics, self-care and wellbeing, decision making and interest in Greater Western Sydney. The Admissions Committee are mindful of the coachable elements of UMAT and are reviewing its place in the selection process."

Wow this is so clarifying, motivates me a lot.

 

[Jess123]

Hi

If I entered the University and about to complete first semestar. But willing to take a gap year. Is it possible

 

[Crow]

Hi

If I entered the University and about to complete first semestar. But willing to take a gap year. Is it possible

Depends what you're studying and what your university policy is for the specific degree you're doing. In most cases, if you're going to complete the first semester then you should be ok to defer your degree and resume next year. Keep in mind certain subjects have prerequisites so you may not be able to jump in again on a full-time basis unless you're planning to resume in semester 2 of 2020.

If you're studying medicine or dentistry, the university policy may not allow deferral unless you have exceptional circumstances. You'll need to check out the policy yourself.

 

[Jess123]

I am taking 3 subjects (out of 8) in first semester in UNSW actuarial and commerce, plan to complete first semester and I am thinking to try Medicine one more time. I did HSc 2018 and got ATAR 99. Can I use my ATAR for 2020 University Medicine Entrance. Can I apply to all universities. In case, If I am not successful, I can continue this course next year

 

[Crow]

I am taking 3 subjects (out of 8) in first semester in UNSW actuarial and commerce, plan to complete first semester and I am thinking to try Medicine one more time. I did HSc 2018 and got ATAR 99. Can I use my ATAR for 2020 University Medicine Entrance. Can I apply to all universities. In case, If I am not successful, I can continue this course next year

Please refer to my posts here: Quick Questions Thread 2019/2020 and here: Quick Questions Thread 2019/2020.

As you now have a tertiary record of study you'll only be eligible for JMP, WSU, UNSW, JCU and Bond. Given you'll only have completed 3 subjects if you defer after this semester, you won't have 1FTE of study completed by the end of the year which will likely rule you out for JCU and UNSW. This leaves WSU, JMP and Bond as the Australian universities you'll be eligible for.

 

[Jess123]

with UNSW, if by end of year you have done less than 0.75 FTE they will use your ATAR only

Is it true for UNSW

 

[A1]

with UNSW, if by end of year you have done less than 0.75 FTE they will use your ATAR only
Is it true for UNSW

It's in this link > Local applicants | Medicine

University students and graduates
Applicants who will have completed one year or more of tertiary studies at undergraduate level by the end of the year preceding their start in the Medicine program will be assessed on the basis of both high school results (ATAR) and tertiary study results, combined at a 50:50 ratio.

Applicants who will have completed less than 0.75 full-time equivalent study at tertiary level by the end of the year preceding their start in the Medicine program will be assessed only on the basis of their high school qualification.

In summary, with 3 subjects completed JMP UNSW & Bond will only use your ATAR. WSU uses either GPA 6.2+ or ATAR, which you will qualify with your 99. Not sure about JCU though.

EtA: Bond will also use ATAR only for less than 1 FTE year.

 

[Jess123]

If I drop the course now, will I be considered as GAP year student