Quick Questions 2019/2020

[A1]

If I drop the course now, will I be considered as GAP year student

Unfortunately not. It's past the semester's census date so you will have a tertiary academic record of 3 subjects (even if with no results). With this record you are ineligible except for the 5 schools we have mentioned.

This being the case, if you are not planning to do something else in semester 2 I'd suggest you take on 2 subjects. It would make no difference to your application status to these 5 schools, but if you are not able to make into med you will have 5 subjects under your belt instead of 3. (Don't do 3 more though as that would take you to 0.75 FTE and the GPA will drag down your ATAR Rank for UNSW).

 

[bigyikes]

Hello all,
I just need some clarification about the score requirements for medicine in 2020. I'm currently a non-standard student in 2nd year, and I'm sitting the UCAT this year. I sat the UMAT last year and got 95%ile(67/60/60), however I only received an interview offer for the JMP, which unfortunately I did not pass. I'm hoping to improve my score this year, but I'm not sure how much of a difference I can make. My ATAR was only 96.5, and my GPA from last year was 6. From last year, I understand that I was ~4 marks off in my S2 score to receive a non-GWS offer for Western Sydney.

I've been researching into UNSW this year because I understand they're weighing the SJT section of the UCAT equivalent to the first 4 sections, which gives me a bit more hope than I had last year. However, I read that a higher UCAT score cannot make up for a lower ATAR/GPA. So does this mean I've got bugger all chance to receive an interview offer for UNSW this year, even if hypothetically my UCAT score was in the 99-100%ile? If so, just how much would my GPA have to improve by (I understand its not that great) to even have a chance for an interview at UNSW.

Its just quite frustrating, especially with Western Sydney because I'm only about 800m from the GWS boundary

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Hello all,
I just need some clarification about the score requirements for medicine in 2020. I'm currently a non-standard student in 2nd year, and I'm sitting the UCAT this year. I sat the UMAT last year and got 95%ile(67/60/60), however I only received an interview offer for the JMP, which unfortunately I did not pass. I'm hoping to improve my score this year, but I'm not sure how much of a difference I can make. My ATAR was only 96.5, and my GPA from last year was 6. From last year, I understand that I was ~4 marks off in my S2 score to receive a non-GWS offer for Western Sydney.

I've been researching into UNSW this year because I understand they're weighing the SJT section of the UCAT equivalent to the first 4 sections, which gives me a bit more hope than I had last year. However, I read that a higher UCAT score cannot make up for a lower ATAR/GPA. So does this mean I've got bugger all chance to receive an interview offer for UNSW this year, even if hypothetically my UCAT score was in the 99-100%ile? If so, just how much would my GPA have to improve by (I understand its not that great) to even have a chance for an interview at UNSW.

Its just quite frustrating, especially with Western Sydney because I'm only about 800m from the GWS boundary

Thanks for any and all help!

If you’re non-rural, then yep, I’d say you’re probably zero chance of a UNSW interview on the basis of your ATAR/GPA combo.

I had UMAT 98th%ile, GPA 7.00, ATAR 97.something and I was told I could attend an interview but was basically zero chance of receiving an offer (less than 5% was the quoted figure). This was two years ago, and things are generally only getting more competitive.

 

[Goldilocks]

What are the chances of getting a place at JCU (bonded or unbonded - any place) with a 98 or 99 ATAR and NOT rural? I know it's possible, but can anyone give a good estimate?

 

[Crow]

What are the chances of getting a place at JCU (bonded or unbonded - any place) with a 98 or 99 ATAR and NOT rural? I know it's possible, but can anyone give a good estimate?

If you want a numerical chance, you aren’t going to get one. I think recent stats are that ~60% of the current JCU medicine cohorts are made up of non-rural applicants (I.e. the majority - A1 can give exact stats) so it’s certainly not uncommon. It’ll all boil down to the quality of your written application and interview (if you get to that stage) - ATAR plays a much less significant role in the scheme of things.

 

[A1]

What are the chances of getting a place at JCU (bonded or unbonded - any place) with a 98 or 99 ATAR and NOT rural? I know it's possible, but can anyone give a good estimate?

I once did a rough tally of the previous 2-3 years, for non-rural about two thirds of the posted interview invites were 99+, one third 98 & 97. However of the posted place offers I remember not seeing any sub-99. It made me think ATAR does count significantly in place offers.

On the basis of ATAR 99 alone I'd say (out of interviewees) about 1 in 4 chance. This takes into account a smaller proportion of places are allocated to non-rural, offset by their advantage over 98s & 97s.

 

[bigyikes]

If you’re non-rural, then yep, I’d say you’re probably zero chance of a UNSW interview on the basis of your ATAR/GPA combo.

I had UMAT 98th%ile, GPA 7.00, ATAR 97.something and I was told I could attend an interview but was basically zero chance of receiving an offer (less than 5% was the quoted figure). This was two years ago, and things are generally only getting more competitive.

Thanks for the info, LMG. I guess I should focus more on my UCAT for JMP and WSU than improving my GPA.

 

[Crow]

Thanks for the info, LMG. I guess I should focus more on my UCAT for JMP and WSU than improving my GPA.

Well, that depends on whether you plan to pursue graduate entry medicine (which I’d highly recommend you do - it would open up a whole heap of universities for you to apply at). If you’re pursuing grad entry, then you’ll want your GPA to be high as possible. I wouldn’t neglect it to focus on UCAT, myself.

 

[bigyikes]

Well, that depends on whether you plan to pursue graduate entry medicine (which I’d highly recommend you do - it would open up a whole heap of universities for you to apply at). If you’re pursuing grad entry, then you’ll want your GPA to be high as possible. I wouldn’t neglect it to focus on UCAT, myself.

I've considered it, but after seeing my sister struggle with the GAMSAT, and the fact that I'm doing a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and haven't done any science since Year 11, I don't think I'm capable of doing it successfully.

 

[Crow]

I've considered it, but after seeing my sister struggle with the GAMSAT, and the fact that I'm doing a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and haven't done any science since Year 11, I don't think I'm capable of doing it successfully.

I’d argue that if you achieved a 95%ile in UMAT (with S1 being your strongest section) then you have demonstrated strong reasoning skills for science (which is requiring less and less background science knowledge with each GAMSAT exam that goes by) and that your Arts background puts you in strong steed for section 1 and section 2, but your choice! Good luck with the UCAT!

 

[MrWhippe]

Hey Crow, I was wondering if you could clarify something for me!

In the past it was explained that most universities only recognise a mark of >85 as a 7, though I've recently been speaking with someone (am_z_hope) who was admitted into Griffith's Dental program, despite several marks in the low 80s at La Trobe University. They were of the assumption that as long as La Trobe considers it a HD (i.e. above 80), the system will consider that a 7.

I'm currently following in their footsteps, and hoping to make the transition into another course (medicine or Dentistry) using La Trobe as a launchpad, but am curious which universities this holds true for. Is there any way of working out what specific Universities need in order to consider my La Trobe marks a 7? Currently I'm hoping to apply to the JMP, WSU and James Cook for Medicine, and Griffith, Adelaide, UQ, and CSU for Dentistry.

I'm still fully intending to pursue straight 85s, but it would be nice peace of mind to understand what a mark or two in the low 80s might do.

 

[Crow]

Hey MrWhippe

So my understanding is that if the academic transcript records the actual number grade e.g. 83 then Griffith would recalculate that as a 6 rather than a 7 even if the university in question allocated that a 7, but if the transcript only records the number grade then Griffith won’t do anything about that. BUT it’s possible that Griffith actually just uses QTAC’s GPA calculation, in which case we think QTAC would leave it at a 7 in the former example above.

The only reason I think that Griffith calculates their own GPAs is because I know they award first class honours a 7.0 but if the transcript records an overall honours mark as e.g. 83 then they will actually round that down to a 6.0 - I think - but we’re not certain on this. A1 or LMG! might have something different to add.

As for other universities: for WSU and JMP (and UQ dent) you just need to make sure your GPA meets their hurdle requirement and then the result will come down to your UCAT result and subsequent interview if you get one. JCU will use QTAC to calculate the GPA AFAIK so I think your GPA there will be whatever your transcript says it is.

I’m not sure what the go is with GPA calculations for Adel and CSU dent sorry - Yamster or A1 should know.

 

[Yamster]

I've no idea about the specifics for UAdel/CSU either, sorry! I'd agree with Crow though about downgrading your grade if your academic transcript appears with say an 83. If it just says HD, I think you should be fine!

 

[MrWhippe]

Hey MrWhippe

So my understanding is that if the academic transcript records the actual number grade e.g. 83 then Griffith would recalculate that as a 6 rather than a 7 even if the university in question allocated that a 7, but if the transcript only records the number grade then Griffith won’t do anything about that. BUT it’s possible that Griffith actually just uses QTAC’s GPA calculation, in which case we think QTAC would leave it at a 7 in the former example above.

The only reason I think that Griffith calculates their own GPAs is because I know they award first class honours a 7.0 but if the transcript records an overall honours mark as e.g. 83 then they will actually round that down to a 6.0 - I think - but we’re not certain on this. A1 or LMG! might have something different to add.

As for other universities: for WSU and JMP (and UQ dent) you just need to make sure your GPA meets their hurdle requirement and then the result will come down to your UCAT result and subsequent interview if you get one. JCU will use QTAC to calculate the GPA AFAIK so I think your GPA there will be whatever your transcript says it is.

I’m not sure what the go is with GPA calculations for Adel and CSU dent sorry - Yamster or A1 should know.

I've no idea about the specifics for UAdel/CSU either, sorry! I'd agree with Crow though about downgrading your grade if your academic transcript appears with say an 83. If it just says HD, I think you should be fine!

Thanks for the reply you two. God I hate how nebulous this stuff is sometimes! I wonder if it would be worth contacting VTAC or Griffith to find out.

 

[A1]

Is there any way of working out what specific Universities need in order to consider my La Trobe marks a 7?

Expand the Methodology tab in this link > How your tertiary qualifications are graded and assessed - UAC
you'll see UAC doesn't mention numeric marks anywhere. All depends on the Grade code so you get 7 for a HD whether it's a 86 HD or 82 HD.

A member has also posted on MSO that they talked to QTAC and QTAC confirmed they do similarly - Grade code only.

However Griffith could have instructed QTAC of their own variations. If the variations apply only to sub-85 class I Hons then you should be okay. But we don't know if they also include sub-85 HDs. Maybe you talk to Griffith then tell us.

 

[MrWhippe]

Expand the Methodology tab in this link > How your tertiary qualifications are graded and assessed - UAC
you'll see UAC doesn't mention numeric marks anywhere. All depends on the Grade code so you get 7 for a HD whether it's a 86 HD or 82 HD.

A member has also posted on MSO that they talked to QTAC and QTAC confirmed they do similarly - Grade code only.

However Griffith could have instructed QTAC of their own variations. If the variations apply only to sub-85 class I Hons then you should be okay. But we don't know if they also include sub-85 HDs. Maybe you talk to Griffith then tell us.

I think I'll do just that Will let you know what they say.

 

[A1]

For anyone interested, see Table 3 on page 4 > https://medicaldeans.org.au/md/2018/08/2017-MSOD-National-Data-Report-1.pdf

2014 was an interesting year: oldest graduate 63yo, youngest 18yo.
Which med school let one start at 13-14yo?

Btw there are other interesting stats in that report, like career/vocation intentions, income support during uni, number of PhD/Masters before med etc.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

For anyone interested, see Table 3 on page 4 > https://medicaldeans.org.au/md/2018/08/2017-MSOD-National-Data-Report-1.pdf

2014 was an interesting year: oldest graduate 63yo, youngest 18yo.
Which med school let one start at 13-14yo?

Oh, wow, what?! UTAS says 17 is youngest they’ll take, and even then they recommend deferring for a gap year depending on when you turn 18.

Thanks for the link.

PS. The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely (to me) that a hospital accepted a ~16yo into the wards as a (clinical years) Med student. I’m really interested to know more about that student!

 

[A1]

PS. The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely (to me) that a hospital accepted a ~16yo into the wards as a (clinical years) Med student. I’m really interested to know more about that student!

I also had a thought could that piece of data be a fake by a tricky student. I then noticed it not only appears in the table but also is described in the report's text, and the report is part of the Data Linkage project funded by the Commonwealth Dept of Health. They would have verified before letting it go to print.

 

[DrDrLMG!]

I also had a thought could that piece of data be a fake by a tricky student. I then noticed it not only appears in the table but also is described in the report's text, and the report is part of the Data Linkage project funded by the Commonwealth Dept of Health. They would have verified before letting it go to print.

Yeah, I noticed that, too! It’s why I’m even more intrigued, because it clearly seems legit (rather than a typo, which is what I initially wondered).