UCAT Score Use by Med and Dent Schools

[aidin]

Will UNSW not be considering SJT again this year or have they not released that yet?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Will UNSW not be considering SJT again this year or have they not released that yet?

From the UNSW website (seriously, just google some of this stuff, it took me two seconds!!): Local applicants | Medicine

"For selection, UNSW Medicine considers the total mark obtained from the UCAT ANZ, that is the overall score of Verbal Reasoning, Decision Making, Quantitative Reasoning, Abstract Reasoning. The Situational Judgement mark will not be considered. There is no minimum UCAT ANZ score as such. However, it is expected that only applicants who have reached the 50th percentile would meet the threshold to be invited for an interview."

 

[dannar]

Hey guys. I asked this question on another platform and was referred here as the area of study is more focussed I actually wanted to ask if it was true whether Western Sydney University doesn't look far into UCAT marks when accepting students into medicine, as long as they've passed the ATAR? Thanks guys

 

[dotwingz]

According to A1's Admissions Guide, WSU considers both the UCAT and the Interview in determining the final place. I cant seem to find a source on this but generally WSU releases very little about their process, so maybe someone contacted them directly for the information

For future reference, general discussion about wsu should go here: WSU: General Discussion and Questions

 

[Some guy]

Academic performance (ATAR or GPA) and UCAT performance are both considered, along with interview performance. Academic performance is just a threshold, UCAT is a ranking with some weighting for different sections.

 

[A1]

I actually wanted to ask if it was true whether Western Sydney University doesn't look far into UCAT marks when accepting students into medicine

WSU will look solely at UCAT scores, with different weightings between sections, to select for interviews. Then subject to you meeting the ATAR/GPA threshold they select for place offers based on Interview + UCAT.

We have heard four different "official" versions of this Interview/UCAT combo : WSU website says both count with more emphasis on the interview, the accreditation report says 75% interview 25% UCAT, one WSU admissions officer said 100% interview with UCAT as tiebreaker, another admissions officer said something else I have forgotten.

 

[dannar]

Thanks guys!!

 

[Ted Hill]

Will Monash take SJ into account this year?

 

[DrDrLMG!]

Will Monash take SJ into account this year?

Have you asked them? Probably a far more reliable option than asking people here to speculate. If you have, what did they say?

 

[fishy87]

Will Monash take SJ into account this year?

yeah, there was a webinar where they confirmed that monash will be taking SJ this year

 

[garmonbozia]

yeah, there was a webinar where they confirmed that monash will be taking SJ this year

If it's not in writing then I wouldn't treat it as confirmation of anything. Any poorly informed university staff member can make an offhand comment about selection criteria in a webinar.

 

[A1]

yeah, there was a webinar where they confirmed that monash will be taking SJ this year

On the topic of Monash I have noticed an interesting new line added to Monash webpage
> Admissions requirements - Domestic

"Only a set number of applicants will be invited for an interview and this selection is based on a ranking a combination of UCAT scores (not percentile) and final year aggregrate scores (not ATAR)."

This means Monash will combine the three criteria ATAR/UCAT/Interview based more on the z-score method, not by ranks which are more aligned with percentile & ATAR.

 

[whys]

On the topic of Monash I have noticed an interesting new line added to Monash webpage
> Admissions requirements - Domestic

"Only a set number of applicants will be invited for an interview and this selection is based on a ranking a combination of UCAT scores (not percentile) and final year aggregrate scores (not ATAR)."

This means Monash will combine the three criteria ATAR/UCAT/Interview based more on the z-score method, not by ranks which are more aligned with percentile & ATAR.

Can you explain what the z-score method is or direct me to somewhere that does explain it? I'm confused :/ What does this change in selection criteria translate to for prospective Monash med applicants?

 

[A1]

Can you explain what the z-score method is or direct me to somewhere that does explain it?

Since the three criteria are on different scales it's not mathematically valid to add up their scores for comparative ranking. For example we can't add a UCAT 3020 + Interview 65 (out of 100) and say it's better than UCAT 3000 + Interview 80.

The scales need to be standardised first, a common method is z-score. Basically it's a numeric indicating how far your *aggregate/score* is above or below the cohort's mean, irrespective of the marking scale.

Net effect is, you might think by ranks UCAT 97%ile is half way between 95%ile & 99%ile but by z-score it's not. 95%ile is roughly 2900, 97%ile 3000, 99%ile could be 3400, so 97 is only one fifth of the way between 95 & 99. Similarly for ATAR 98.0 vs 99.0 vs 99.95.

 

[whys]

Since the three criteria are on different scales it's not mathematically valid to add up their scores for comparative ranking. For example we can't add a UCAT 3020 + Interview 65 (out of 100) and say it's better than UCAT 3000 + Interview 80.

The scales need to be standardised first, a common method is z-score. Basically it's a numeric indicating how far you are above or below the cohort's mean, irrespective of the marking scale.

Net effect is, you might think by ranks UCAT 97%ile is half way between 95%ile & 99%ile but by z-score it's not. 95%ile is roughly 2900, 97%ile 3000, 99%ile could be 3400, so 97 is only one fifth of the way between 95 & 99. Similarly for ATAR 98.0 vs 99.0 vs 99.95.

Thank you! What I get from this is that you can still be ranked against those with the same percentile as you. So, would this mean that those with a higher aggregate/ucat score are highly benefitted with this method, whereas those with lesser scores for ucat and atar face a disadvantage even if they have a pretty high percentile/atar?

 

[ucatboy]

Thank you! What I get from this is that you can still be ranked against those with the same percentile as you. So, would this mean that those with a higher aggregate/ucat score are highly benefitted with this method, whereas those with lesser scores for ucat and atar face a disadvantage even if they have a pretty high percentile/atar?

Those who benefit the very most will not necessarily be those who get a very high ATAR (it's capped at 99.95) but those who get a UCAT score in the 3300+ range (~4-5 standard deviations above the interviewee median), basically guaranteeing them a place offer.

UCAT scores, like the UMAT previous, leave a lot of room or "free real estate" for those who perform exceptionally well and way above everyone else. While 3130 is the 99th percentile, there's another 470 score into which you can expand into, propelling you way beyond the mean/median of your fellow applicants. ATAR is more "capped", for lack of a better word, as it's not possible for you to overperform and get a 100+ ATAR.

 

[whys]

Those who benefit the very most will not necessarily be those who get a very high ATAR (it's capped at 99.95) but those who get a UCAT score in the 3300+ range (~4-5 standard deviations above the interviewee median), basically guaranteeing them a place offer.

UCAT scores, like the UMAT previous, leave a lot of room or "free real estate" for those who perform exceptionally well and way above everyone else. While 3130 is the 99th percentile, there's another 470 score into which you can expand into, propelling you way beyond the mean/median of your fellow applicants.

Oh Thanks for the clarification.

 

[A1]

Thank you! What I get from this is that you can still be ranked against those with the same percentile as you. So, would this mean that those with a higher aggregate/ucat score are highly benefitted with this method, whereas those with lesser scores for ucat and atar face a disadvantage even if they have a pretty high percentile/atar?

Ranking by z-score amplifies the gap advantage of the near top scores. For example, by ATAR itself a 99.5 is X number of rank places higher than 99.0 and the same X places lower than 99.95, by using aggregates 99.5 is X number of rank places higher than 99.0 but 3X places lower than 99.95.

 

[whys]

Ranking by z-score amplifies the gap advantage of the near top scores. For example, by ATAR itself a 99.0 is X number of rank places higher than 98.0 and the same X places lower than 99.95, by using aggregates 99.0 is X number of rank places higher than 98.0 but 3-4X places lower than 99.95.

Ohhh, so it's like how a certain aggregate corresponds to 99.00, which means you are in the top 1% of the country (relative to everyone), whereas Monash's use of the aggregate will put you in the top x% or bottom x% of the candidates applying to Monash (relative only to Monash candidates). But why would Monash decide to make this change if they are just exacerbating the difference between the extreme top scorers and the not-so-extreme top scorers? Does this just make it easier to select people? Because now the chances of getting into med are even smaller than before (and they were already small to start with).

 

[ucatboy]

Ohhh, so it's like how a certain aggregate corresponds to 99.00, which means you are in the top 1% of the country (relative to everyone), whereas Monash's use of the aggregate will put you in the top x% or bottom x% of the candidates applying to Monash (relative only to Monash candidates). But why would Monash decide to make this change if they are just exacerbating the difference between the extreme top scorers and the not-so-extreme top scorers? Does this just make it easier to select people? Because now the chances of getting into med are even smaller than before (and they were already small to start with).

The chances haven't decreased across the board, but rather distributed: in this case, in favour of the students who overperform way above the average for one of the three components (namely UCAT though as that offers the greatest potential). If you score something like 3400 in the UCAT there'll be a seat in Monash with your name on it

I'm personally an advocate for rankings rather than z-scores as ranking a 3500 UCAT scorer as 1st and 3400 as 2nd is better than giving them a huge head start over the competition in the realm of 5 and 4 standard deviations above the mean - at that point, they don't even need to try for the other components.