University of Melbourne Guaranteed Pathway- Medicine

[lumos]

Melbourne looks amazing, and I'd love to study there. Would it be a good idea to do Biomed (or just a plain BSc - does it matter?) as an undergraduate degree for Medicine at Melbourne in hopes of getting accepted into postgrad medicine, or would I be better off just staying in Auckland for my undergrad degree and then applying to save the money.

If I go to Melbourne I wouldn't have accommodation in the halls, as I didn't apply earlier and most are full now.
Auckland also gives me the opportunity to apply for medicine after first year, which I would probably accept if offered a place.

TL;DR: Would doing undergraduate at Melbourne give me a significant advantage over doing it at Auckland, if I was aiming for postgrad there?

It really won't matter whether you do biomed or science. Either will give you the right experience and prerequisites for med, so it comes down to which one you would prefer to study. If it were me, I would choose science. It's a bit more of a general degree so you have the chance to study wider-reaching subjects and try new things outside of just biomedical subjects. Plus biomed at Melbourne is incredibly competitive. Not only was the clearly-in ATAR close to 99 this year (crazy high), but you have a course where almost all the kids want to study med. Which is both a good thing and a bad thing; you'll have like-minded students but you'll have a lot of people with whom you'll have to compete for a postgrad place. And from what I've heard, the atmosphere in biomed is just that bit more competitive and serious than science. But that's just rumours and stuff I've heard from friends studying both courses.

The question of whether it's preferable to do an undergrad at Melbourne or Auckland is touched on quite a bit in the previous pages of this thread, but my opinion, in a nutshell, is that it really won't matter that much. How well-regarded a uni is, or how prestigious, will have no bearing whatsoever on your eligibility or suitability for a postgrad med place. They won't care where you went. So choose the uni that you feel you'd like to study at. If you love the idea of coming to the greatest city in the world to study, then go for it! But you're right about Auckland being able to take non-standards, which obviously Melbourne doesn't do. Also, if money is an issue, then do take note that Melbourne is not a cheap city to live in... Not only is living interstate or internationally away from home very expensive, but the cost of living in Melbourne is pretty darn high...

I'm still in a very confused situation. I can still go for the full-fee paying place from Melbourne University as I may have a chance of getting into medicine without a GAMSAT score. I can still apply all around Australia and do the exact same applications as from UWA and Melbourne. The only difference is that being in Melbourne, I have the opportunity to get into Medicine without UMAT/GAMSAT and only a routine interview to demonstrate I am competent in conversation.

And now we're going round in circles again..... Again, please consider the risks of rejecting your offer at UWA and coming to Melbourne, just for the small chance of being able to bypass the GAMSAT. With all honesty, even though your ATAR is great, I really don't think a place in the assured pathway is likely at all for you. Your UMAT is not going to be high enough for Melbourne, and the risks of applying mid-year are pretty high. I don't want to hurt your feelings, but there's really not much of a chance at all of the guaranteed pathway.

And you're not fully understanding what the interview is about. It's not just seeing if you're 'competent in conversation', it's much more than that. It's about looking at your problem solving, logical reasoning, ethical behaviour, motivation for doing medicine, passion for study, approach to scenarios, and heaps more. And medical interviews are most certainly not "routine". They are tough, and it's hard to do well in them. If it were easy, then everyone would get in and there would be 3000 kids in one med class. I've known students who didn't get in to med with 99.95 ATARs and 97+ UMATs, because of their interview. Even those who were confident in their interview ability. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's easy.

It boils down to this. If you truly want med, have as many different diverging plans to get into med as possible, and follow through with them. ALL OF THEM.

^ This. Pay attention to this. By pinning all your hopes on Melbourne you are limiting your choices. Not only are you assuming that the interview is routine, and is just a hurdle, but you are eliminating other options. Rejecting your UWA offer to try your luck at Melbourne is a huge gamble, as it's going to leave you without a course! You'll be stranded with no backup option, which is not a place you want to be. Starting at UWA, or even taking a gap year, means that you can re-sit the UMAT and apply everywhere, not just in your home state. With all due respect, don't listen to your parents about this, even if they don't want you to go interstate. Applying interstate is the only way to increase your options enough so that you have a good chance of getting a med offer.

 

[dsmalik]

I completely understand what you have said but the main conflict at this very moment is the decision to either do science at UWA with no extra pathway for post graduate medicine, where I need to sit GAMSAT and an interview.

The difference with Melbourne I still get another chance of getting an automatic interview given I get 75%+ GPA which I will try to get higher as I will also sit the GAMSAT and apply all over Australia so I can get a Commonwealth Supported Place/Bonded place. The difference for me at this very moment that I could possibly have another interview at hand at Melbourne in order to get into medicine. Another interview means another chance. Given I might not perform adequately in GAMSAT for various reasons at least 1 opportunity is there. If I was at UWA I wouldn't get this chance.

Is it worth going to Melbourne even if I'm given the chance of at least 1 extra interview?

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

Even If I were to get rejected from the interview at Melbourne I still have a Science/Biomedical Science degree regardless. It is obviously a requirement but is it worth it to live 3 years away for the opportunity for that extra opportunity?

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

 

[lumos]

I completely understand what you have said but the main conflict at this very moment is the decision to either do science at UWA with no extra pathway for post graduate medicine, where I need to sit GAMSAT and an interview.

The difference with Melbourne I still get another chance of getting an automatic interview given I get 75%+ GPA which I will try to get higher as I will also sit the GAMSAT and apply all over Australia so I can get a Commonwealth Supported Place/Bonded place. The difference for me at this very moment that I could possibly have another interview at hand at Melbourne in order to get into medicine. Another interview means another chance. Given I might not perform adequately in GAMSAT for various reasons at least 1 opportunity is there. If I was at UWA I wouldn't get this chance.

Is it worth going to Melbourne even if I'm given the chance of at least 1 extra interview?

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

Yes but mate you actually have to get in to the assured pathway. I think you're misunderstanding a bit of how this assured pathway actually works. It's something you apply for and enrol in after school; you don't get an automatic interview for med if you get 75%. Consider the assured pathway like a course that you have to try and get in to, not just some extra chance you've got at Melbourne as opposed to UWA. You apply along with a heap of other applicants, they assess you (and don't make the mistake of thinking that it's easy to get in), enter into it the year after school, and then, if you get 75% and pay your fees, you'll have a spot in postgrad.

Also, and I'm trying to say this nicely, even if they would let you sit an interview now, you have very, very little chance of getting in to the assured pathway. They use ATAR, interview and UMAT when deciding on applicants, and so your UMAT below 40 is going to be too low. And while your ATAR is great, given that it's Melbourne Uni I'd say a lot of the kids will have scores much higher. I'm a big believer in trying everything and never giving up but you're not thinking about this rationally. The Melbourne Uni pathway is not just some second chance thing for kids with high ATARs but low UMATs; it's something that a lot of kids work really hard (including trying to get a high UMAT score) to get into. Not everyone gets in. If you ask me, your scores are going to be too low.

I've been trying to explain all this to you for five pages of this thread now. It's very unlikely that you'll get into this pathway at Melbourne, so why take the risk? Just do what everyone else does when they miss out (you're not the only med applicant who's ever missed out first time around), and apply either as a nonstandard or a gap yearer.

 

[dsmalik]

Yes but mate you actually have to get in to the assured pathway. I think you're misunderstanding a bit of how this assured pathway actually works. It's something you apply for and enrol in after school; you don't get an automatic interview for med if you get 75%. Consider the assured pathway like a course that you have to try and get in to, not just some extra chance you've got at Melbourne as opposed to UWA. You apply along with a heap of other applicants, they assess you (and don't make the mistake of thinking that it's easy to get in), enter into it the year after school, and then, if you get 75% and pay your fees, you'll have a spot in postgrad.

Also, and I'm trying to say this nicely, even if they would let you sit an interview now, you have very, very little chance of getting in to the assured pathway. They use ATAR, interview and UMAT when deciding on applicants, and so your UMAT below 40 is going to be too low. And while your ATAR is great, given that it's Melbourne Uni I'd say a lot of the kids will have scores much higher. I'm a big believer in trying everything and never giving up but you're not thinking about this rationally. The Melbourne Uni pathway is not just some second chance thing for kids with high ATARs but low UMATs; it's something that a lot of kids work really hard (including trying to get a high UMAT score) to get into. Not everyone gets in. If you ask me, your scores are going to be too low.

I've been trying to explain all this to you for five pages of this thread now. It's very unlikely that you'll get into this pathway at Melbourne, so why take the risk? Just do what everyone else does when they miss out (you're not the only med applicant who's ever missed out first time around), and apply either as a nonstandard or a gap yearer.

You have quoted that 'if get 75% and pay [my] fees, [I'll] have a spot in postgrad'.

I have contacted the University 6 times last week talking to student advisers, people affiliated with the faculty of medicine and they have discretely explained to me the process. This is how they explained it:

x) Complete your undergraduate degree and get higher than 75%+ GPA.
x) Submit a form for the guaranteed pathway indicating that I got 99.00+ ATAR in 2013, this makes me eligible for the Multi-Mini Interview. This happens AFTER I complete my degree.
x) 'Pass' this interview (the faculty member said that there is no score in the interview just an assessment of seeing how competent you are at conversation, understanding ethics as you explained...)
x) Hopefully get in.

I am not trying to act ignorant in anyway. I know my scores are substandard but I want to maximise my chances. I will need to try in my degree as well and get higher than 75% but in addition to that I need to also sit the GAMSAT and apply for other universities as I dont want to put 'my eggs all in one basket'. What I'm trying to say given I have the sufficient funds and get the 75%+ GPA I have a chance of getting that guaranteed pathway since I get an interview to showcase my desire for medicine.

I am not trying to 'risk' anything I want to see if this is worth it I still need to perform in GAMSAT and interviews as a contingency plan just in case I don't get in, either in UWA or University of Melbourne.


Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

 

[lumos]

You have quoted that 'if get 75% and pay [my] fees, [I'll] have a spot in postgrad'.

I have contacted the University 6 times last week talking to student advisers, people affiliated with the faculty of medicine and they have discretely explained to me the process. This is how they explained it:

x) Complete your undergraduate degree and get higher than 75%+ GPA.
x) Submit a form for the guaranteed pathway indicating that I got 99.00+ ATAR in 2013, this makes me eligible for the Multi-Mini Interview. This happens AFTER I complete my degree.
x) 'Pass' this interview (the faculty member said that there is no score in the interview just an assessment of seeing how competent you are at conversation, understanding ethics as you explained...)
x) Hopefully get in.

I am not trying to act ignorant in anyway. I know my scores are substandard but I want to maximise my chances. I will need to try in my degree as well and get higher than 75% but in addition to that I need to also sit the GAMSAT and apply for other universities as I dont want to put 'my eggs all in one basket'. What I'm trying to say given I have the sufficient funds and get the 75%+ GPA I have a chance of getting that guaranteed pathway since I get an interview to showcase my desire for medicine.

I am not trying to 'risk' anything I want to see if this is worth it I still need to perform in GAMSAT and interviews as a contingency plan just in case I don't get in, either in UWA or University of Melbourne.


Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

Well you've asked multiple times if this is worth it. I don't think it is. But if the money to move interstate isn't an issue, and you're set on it despite advice to the contrary, then go for it. Just bear in mind that a UMAT score of less than 40 is, in my opinion, not going to be near high enough.

 

[dsmalik]

[MENTION=19411]lumos[/MENTION], what is the final consensus? What do you recommend?

1) Take UWA offer, study for UMAT, GAMSAT aim for high GPA then apply for all 6 universities across Australia applying as a non-standard? If unsuccessful complete degree then apply via GAMSAT across Australia and hope to get into UWA?

2) Take a gap year, study for UMAT and hopefully get a score high enough to apply interstate?

3) Go to Melbourne, study for UMAT, GAMSAT aim for high GPA then apply for all 6 universities across Australia applying as a non-standard? If unsuccessful complete degree then apply via GAMSAT and Guaranteed pathway across Australia and hope to get into a University given that I might be able to get an MMI at least even if i might screw up GAMSAT?

I'm not sure about being confident about improving UMAT. From what I have heard it is very difficult to improve in UMAT. I heard someone who got 36 percentile the next year got 38. Approximately what percentage of questions do you need to get correct in the UMAT to get a percentile of 85+? I know every year is different but I just want an approximation? I might consider going to a course but is the money better spend of GAMSAT preparation?

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

 

[lumos]

@lumos , what is the final consensus? What do you recommend?

1) Take UWA offer, study for UMAT, GAMSAT aim for high GPA then apply for all 6 universities across Australia applying as a non-standard? If unsuccessful complete degree then apply via GAMSAT across Australia and hope to get into UWA?

2) Take a gap year, study for UMAT and hopefully get a score high enough to apply interstate?

3) Go to Melbourne, study for UMAT, GAMSAT aim for high GPA then apply for all 6 universities across Australia applying as a non-standard? If unsuccessful complete degree then apply via GAMSAT and Guaranteed pathway across Australia and hope to get into a University given that I might be able to get an MMI at least even if i might screw up GAMSAT?

I'm not sure about being confident about improving UMAT. From what I have heard it is very difficult to improve in UMAT. I heard someone who got 36 percentile the next year got 38. Approximately what percentage of questions do you need to get correct in the UMAT to get a percentile of 85+? I know every year is different but I just want an approximation? I might consider going to a course but is the money better spend of GAMSAT preparation?

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

As I've said a couple of times now, trying for the Melbourne guaranteed pathway is, in my opinion, a mistake. Considering your UMAT score, your chances are too low. So take a gap year or go into uni, it's your choice, then re-sit the UMAT and apply everywhere you can. Whether you improve your score or not is up to you. Improving your score is possible, but it depends on you and how much effort you put into it.

The UMAT is not quite as simple as getting a percentage of questions right, mate... There's a scoring system that is very complex and which no one but ACER understands. Just aim to get as many right as possible. Study hard and you'll be able to, but whether you're successful or not is ultimately up to you.

 

[dsmalik]

Fair enough, this UMAT is very unusual, I keep contacting ACER and they will not explain to me their scoring methodologies. I understand I need to get as many questions correct but the lack of material provided is very frustrating. I presume you must have done excellent in your UMAT given you are in Monash MBBS, what would you recommend in terms of preparation, please feel free to message me.

Just to reiterate that my UMAT score is low, Melbourne Full Fee Paying Place does not require a UMAT score. It is based on ATAR and academic performance in my undergraduate degree. So my UMAT score is rendered redundant for my Guaranteed Pathway Application.

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

 

[Boom]

Fair enough, this UMAT is very unusual, I keep contacting ACER and they will not explain to me their scoring methodologies. I understand I need to get as many questions correct but the lack of material provided is very frustrating. I presume you must have done excellent in your UMAT given you are in Monash MBBS, what would you recommend in terms of preparation, please feel free to message me.

Just to reiterate that my UMAT score is low, Melbourne Full Fee Paying Place does not require a UMAT score. It is based on ATAR and academic performance in my undergraduate degree. So my UMAT score is rendered redundant for my Guaranteed Pathway Application.

Kind Regards,

-DSMalik

Mate, I think you should try applying for FFP at Melbourne. You can always defer your BSc offer at UWA and try the Melbourne path, if you didn't get in, you can always pick up your deferred place or apply again. With an ATAR of 99.3 you would most likely receive an offer again anyway for BSc.

Go for the FFP at melbourne, personally I think GAMSAT is much harder than UMAT and if you have the chance to skip it, then go for it.

 

[HelloWorld]

Just to reiterate that my UMAT score is low, Melbourne Full Fee Paying Place does not require a UMAT score. It is based on ATAR and academic performance in my undergraduate degree. So my UMAT score is rendered redundant for my Guaranteed Pathway Application.

Let me reiterate, once again, the issues with the Melbourne FFP Guaranteed pathway, beyond the ones Lumos has stated

• There are less than 30 FFP spots, of which some are given to postgrad applicants who apply via the standard GAMSAT route, leaving less for the "guaranteed" FFP pathway.
• The clearly-in ATAR for melbourne biomed this year was 99. (Guess what that means most people going in to Melbourne biomed want to do?)
• There are definitely more than 100 people doing biomed at melbourne.

This means that your GPA will probably be the determining factor in differentiating between the horde of ambitious candidates. Note on the website it does say "AT LEAST", so I strongly suspect GPA to be the discriminator. Do you think you can get a perfect GPA at biomed in melbourne?

Also, with regards to the interview, even without a score, you cannot assume you'll do well in an interview (personal experience here).

 

[Boom]

Let me reiterate, once again, the issues with the Melbourne pathway, beyond the ones Lumos has stated

• There are less than 30 FFP spots, of which some are given to postgrad applicants who apply via the standard GAMSAT route.
• The clearly-in ATAR for melbourne biomed this year was 99. (Guess what that means most people going in to Melbourne biomed want to do?)
• There are definitely more than 100 people doing biomed at melbourne.

This means that your GPA will probably be the determining factor in differentiating between the horde of ambitious candidates. Do you think you can get a perfect GPA at biomed in melbourne?

Also, with regards to the interview, even without a score, you cannot assume you'll do well in an interview (personal experience here).

But if he applies for guaranteed pathway and gets in, then he only needs to get 75% in biomed at Medlbourne and he is guaranteed a place? He can choose to take the interview now in year 12 and if he passes it then all that stands in his way is maintaining 75% which I think won't be harder than to get a exceptionally high GPA (well above the minimum) and GAMSAT and then apply for graduate entry?

I mean he is applying for guarantee entry now not the actual graduate course so he doesn't have to compete against those 100 biomed students, other than to get maintain GPA of 75% if he does get in.

 

[HelloWorld]

But if he applies for guaranteed pathway and gets in, then he only needs to get 75% in biomed at Melbourne and he is guaranteed a place? He can choose to take the interview now in year 12 and if he passes it then all that stands in his way is maintaining 75% which I think won't be harder than to get a exceptionally high GPA (well above the minimum) and GAMSAT and then apply for graduate entry?

I am talking about the gauranteed pathway. And the website does say at least 75%, which makes me strongly suspect this will be the discriminator between candidates.

 

[Boom]

It is the same with UQ guaranteed pathway,it also says a minimum of 5GPA.

I am talking about the gauranteed pathway. And the website does say at least 75%, which makes me strongly suspect this will be the discriminator between candidates.

 

[HelloWorld]

It is the same with UQ guaranteed pathway,it also says a minimum of 5GPA.

But nothing is guaranteed about it. There are only a certain number of spots with more spots than candidates. This isn't UQ or Griffith of Even UMelb Chancellors where there's a spot reserved for you from the get go.

 

[Boom]

But nothing is guaranteed about it. There are only a certain number of spots with more spots than candidates. This isn't UQ or Griffith of Even UMelb Chancellors where there's a spot reserved for you from the get go.

Does the UoM Chancellors programme not say at least 75% on their site? A genuine question here, what did you read about FFP guarantee entries that make you think it is different to UQ or Griffith guarantee entry? By the way did you check about the humanities test you have to sit at Griffith after second year?

 

[HelloWorld]

Does the UoM Chancellors programme not say at least 75% on their site?

75% is equivalent to HD.

UoM Chancellors simply says that GPA is....N/A. Yep. If you have the chancellors scholarship, I don't think they care about your GPA in your undergrad course.

Also, you don't have to sit an interview at Griffith or UQ. And *le sigh* it ain't a humanities test, it's simply a course I have to pass, which no one who has gone through the Griffith Medsci program has failed.

 

[Boom]

75% is equivalent to HD.

UoM Chancellors simply says that GPA is....N/A. Yep. If you have the chancellors scholarship, I don't think they care about your GPA in your undergrad course.

Also, you don't have to sit an interview at Griffith or UQ. And *le sigh* it ain't a humanities test, it's simply a course I have to pass, which no one who has gone through the Griffith Medsci program has failed.

Great, but as long as he passes the interview in year 12, aka now, then he can be guarnateed a FFP place in Melbourne which means it is effectively the same as UQ or Griffith where you have just have to secure a minimum ATAR.

And if he don't pass that interview, he could still stay in UWA for BSc?

 

[HelloWorld]

Great, but as long as he passes the interview in year 12, aka now, then he can be guarnateed a FFP place in Melbourne which means it is effectively the same as UQ or Griffith where you have just have to secure a minimum ATAR.

And if he don't pass that interview, he could still stay in UWA for BSc?

Umm....the MMI for the Melbourne MD FFP "Guaranteed" places only take place in the last year of undergraduate study.

I think you're confusing the FFP Guaranteed place and the CSP Guaranteed place for the MD. The CSP guaranteed place requires no minimum GPA, only an MMI (this MMI can be done right after finishing year 12). The FFP Guaranteed place REQUIRES at least a GPA of 75% and also an MMI (This MMI can ONLY be done in the final year of undergrad study).

 

[Boom]

Umm....the MMI for the Melbourne MD FFP "Guaranteed" places only take place in the last year of undergraduate study.

I didn't know that, no wonder people are suggesting against him going for the place. I think I read for Chancellors that students can choose whether to take the interview in year 12 or after undergraduate study, is that not the case for FFPs?

 

[HelloWorld]

I didn't know that, no wonder people are suggesting against him going for the place. I think I read for Chancellors that students can choose whether to take the interview in year 12 or after undergraduate study, is that not the case for FFPs?

Nope.