Auckland OLY1 chat - archive

[papermoth]

by low 80s i mean raw score! cos even though it is 100 percentile everyone keeps saying how umat doesn't matter much because of the way it is taken into account of something? I am just wondering exactly how much of a 'lead' or 'advantage' this is.

Btw, have you been accepted into biomed yet? I think CIE results come out now/soonish

Hi there!

Your UMAT is so good I have to ask why you aren't going to Otago ?:] I mean we give UMAT a 33% weighing + 66% GPA (round ball figures, and UMAT is weighed 45,45,10 percent for the respective sections). At Auckland I can't see it convey as much of an advantage but at Otago a UMAT like yours would be a big deal!

Anyway it's probably way too late now but yeah if you wanted your UMAT to give you a significant advantage you're going to the wrong university.

 

[Nogeat]

by low 80s i mean raw score! cos even though it is 100 percentile everyone keeps saying how umat doesn't matter much because of the way it is taken into account of something? I am just wondering exactly how much of a 'lead' or 'advantage' this is.

Btw, have you been accepted into biomed yet? I think CIE results come out now/soonish

OMG, I must say, 80s is like pretty amazing but i as i said about getting low UMAT not mattering, I'm not sure if a high UMAT will give you a major advantage. Sure it will give you a headstart but grades and interviews are perhaps the deciduous factors ^_^

And CIE results are coming out today or tomorrow so perhaps will hear for them in the next few days. But they said that it takes time to process the results through to the uni so some people get accepted in late Jan and some in early Feb <_<
Tell me when you're accepted

 

[frootloop]

Hi there!

Your UMAT is so good I have to ask why you aren't going to Otago ?:] I mean we give UMAT a 33% weighing + 66% GPA (round ball figures, and UMAT is weighed 45,45,10 percent for the respective sections). At Auckland I can't see it convey as much of an advantage but at Otago a UMAT like yours would be a big deal!

Anyway it's probably way too late now but yeah if you wanted your UMAT to give you a significant advantage you're going to the wrong university.

I second this. Even with this year's high cut-off through HSFY at Otago, with an 80 raw score UMAT you'd only need like a 78% (B+) average at Otago...

 

[ChocolateSunshine]

[MENTION=6454]papermoth[/MENTION] and [MENTION=10716]frootloop[/MENTION]
I did apply for Otago, and i even got sent some stuff in an A4 envelope last week. However I don't really intend to go there, I've always wanted to go to Auckland (cos I live in Auckland) and only applied to Otago because of everyone telling me 'if you have a good umat you are practically already in medicine at otago as long as you don't fall asleep in exams'. However, if it wasn't for umat I don't think I would consider Otago. Isn't choosing which uni to go to based on likelihood of entry into first year a bit shortsighted? esp considering it is a 6 year course + training years etc after graduation

 

[frootloop]

Certainly, there is more to think about than just where you'll get in. However, what you have to remember is that only 10-15% of people who start OLY1/HSFY actually end up in medicine, so 'getting in' is hardly a given, I've seen people with billions of E credits at high school manage to miss out on getting into med.
Remember also that the medical school you go to has no bearing whatsoever on where you can work after graduation (Within New Zealand, anyway), and for your clinical (last 3) years you may almost end up spending more time outside of your city of choice, than in it.
If you have no intentions of going to Otago then by all means, we aren't exactly ordering you to I think it's just something to consider, since getting into medical school is by no means easy, and going to Otago would, in your case, likely give you a better chance.
Naturally though, this has to be weighed against how much it would cost you to move cities, etc, paper and I were just a little surprised that someone with your UMAT score would entirely rule Otago out as an option.

 

[ChocolateSunshine]

Hmm, i think I see what you mean. I am really nervous about how only 10-15% of people end up in medicine, and while going to Otago would mean umat counts for more, I figured a high umat can only be a good thing, so even at Auckland it should mean I am in a marginally better place to start with (prior to uni starting). So either choice, I am not really shooting myself in the foot either way?

Auckland is just a lot more appealing to me, mostly because I didn't apply for accommodation at a hall etc in Otago and now have no idea where I would live. But also because I really like auckland as a city (been to dunedin and christchurch before briefly - not to live I admit). Not to mention most of my friends are in Auckland, and my employer would be happy to take me back (I am thinking of quitting while in OLY1), and like you said I can live with my family here, food etc is mostly taken care of. where as at Otago everything would be largely new (though in some ways this is a good thing).

I'm hoping that if I study hard and get a good GPA and not do too badly in the interview I will have a good chance of studying med at UoA which is the dream.

[MENTION=13210]Nogeat[/MENTION]
I have already accepted my offer to biomed at UoA cos I had enough points last year. Apparently the offers for CIE students won't come out for a few days while they process everyone?

 

[papermoth]

Certainly, there is more to think about than just where you'll get in. However, what you have to remember is that only 10-15% of people who start OLY1/HSFY actually end up in medicine, so 'getting in' is hardly a given, I've seen people with billions of E credits at high school manage to miss out on getting into med.
Remember also that the medical school you go to has no bearing whatsoever on where you can work after graduation (Within New Zealand, anyway), and for your clinical (last 3) years you may almost end up spending more time outside of your city of choice, than in it.
If you have no intentions of going to Otago then by all means, we aren't exactly ordering you to I think it's just something to consider, since getting into medical school is by no means easy, and going to Otago would, in your case, likely give you a better chance.
Naturally though, this has to be weighed against how much it would cost you to move cities, etc, paper and I were just a little surprised that someone with your UMAT score would entirely rule Otago out as an option.

Froot really said it all. But you're right, you have to make a holistic and informed decision. The only reason I personally brought it up is because you wanted to know if your UMAT would give you a leg up at Auckland- I simply wanted to present an option (Otago) where it would definitily give you a leg up. I not on a scouting mission I just really felt in needed to be said LOL.

Anyway, I'm from Auckland too and I didn't make the decision to go down to Otago based on ease of entry alone. I mean I went into HSFY with a year 13 UMAT raw score of <50 so I can tell you it was med school vs. med school for me not entry criteria. Although if I did have a UMAT like yours the decision making process would have easily been biased to OU from the get go :]

You seem to have made your mind up already so I hope everything goes well!

EDIT: just read your post I'm a bit delayed when it comes to these things but yeah your reasoning can't be argued with really. I mean it's the fiscally sensible option and admittedly one of the major reasons I could even go down to UO was due to a scholarship so that sorted things for me. Again all the best! Dream big!

 

[ChocolateSunshine]

What kind of scholarship did you get?? How do you feel about moving from Auckland down to Otago? Any regrets?

Thank you for your recommendations for Otago! You and Froot are really eager to help and seem to be very knowledgeable. What year of study are you in?

 

[Nogeat]

It says on cecil that lecture guides are also available in an electronic format under 'Activities & Marks', so does that mean that we don't have to buy them at UBS (how much is it anyway??)

 

[qbob]

If you got a raw score of ~80 on the umat, and did well at highschool (i.e. got lots of E's), then chances are you have a decent brain (or you are pretty amazing at fluking things) and will do fine in OLY1, and get the grades necessary for an interview.

THEN, if you're not a social outcast then you should pass the interview. Getting through the interview at Auckland is not as difficult as people make it out to be.

 

[Crucible]

I don't really know where to post this.......and I didn't want to make a new thread but do any Auckland Uni students know if the Deputy Vice-Chancellor of AU has a university email address?- or whether or not he has an office which I can send mail to?

 

[bobby190]

If you got a raw score of ~80 on the umat, and did well at highschool (i.e. got lots of E's), then chances are you have a decent brain (or you are pretty amazing at fluking things) and will do fine in OLY1, and get the grades necessary for an interview.

THEN, if you're not a social outcast then you should pass the interview. Getting through the interview at Auckland is not as difficult as people make it out to be.

Are you sure 80 score? or percentile? Surely considering UMAT is only 15% anything above 90% should do well.

I think you your making it out to be much easier than it is.

Getting enough grades to get an interview does not at all mean youl be fine. I hear the threshold for entry of interview is relatively much lower. And getting thru the interview is really subjective aswell but do able as there is plenty resources online.
Not being a social outcast doesnt do much at all. Dont base hopes on that please. I know social people that failed interview and vice versa. Again probably due to the abundance of interview resources online for interviews. Only thing that matters is if you are genuinely passionate and can communicate it without giving the wrong messages, ofcourse practice helps. Anyway its not like passing the interview itself is sufficient its probably needed to get much more.

Im sure its do able for most with hardwork and perseverance but similarly to Otago HSFY I dont think anyone will find it easy.

 

[frootloop]

Thank you for your recommendations for Otago! You and Froot are really eager to help and seem to be very knowledgeable. What year of study are you in?

No problem We're both going to be in second year med at Otago this year (free from health-sci! )

If you got a raw score of ~80 on the umat, and did well at highschool (i.e. got lots of E's), then chances are you have a decent brain (or you are pretty amazing at fluking things) and will do fine in OLY1, and get the grades necessary for an interview.

THEN, if you're not a social outcast then you should pass the interview. Getting through the interview at Auckland is not as difficult as people make it out to be.

I'd agree with that, even if UMAT technically isn't supposed to reflect academic grades, if you're capable of getting an 80 raw score, then you have the brains to do well in OLY1, you'll just need the work ethic.

Are you sure 80 score? or percentile? Surely considering UMAT is only 15% anything above 90% should do well.

I think you your making it out to be much easier than it is.

Getting enough grades to get an interview does not at all mean youl be fine. I hear the threshold for entry of interview is relatively much lower. And getting thru the interview is really subjective aswell but do able as there is plenty resources online.
Not being a social outcast doesnt do much at all. Dont base hopes on that please. I know social people that failed interview and vice versa. Again probably due to the abundance of interview resources online for interviews. Only thing that matters is if you are genuinely passionate and can communicate it without giving the wrong messages, ofcourse practice helps. Anyway its not like passing the interview itself is sufficient its probably needed to get much more.

Im sure its do able for most with hardwork and perseverance but similarly to Otago HSFY I dont think anyone will find it easy.

Considering qbob is studying an interview-restricted course at Auckland, I'd say he probably knows what he's talking about in this case... Heck, I did the Otago dent interview, thought I'd done averagely at best (with zero preparation whatsoever), and got offered a place. I don't think you can predict your interview performance, nor can you really 'prepare' for it. Also, someone posted around here that one of the reasons (other than, y'know, cost ) that Auckland are looking into scrapping the interview is that it only actually changes 5% of the class (so only one in twenty people in the class wouldn't have gotten in without it, and vice versa), so it really isn't as much of a game-breaker as it's made out to be.

 

[bobby190]

I'd agree with that, even if UMAT technically isn't supposed to reflect academic grades, if you're capable of getting an 80 raw score, then you have the brains to do well in OLY1, you'll just need the work ethic.

I agree there might be a correlation but that is giving students far too much hope to say you have the brains to do it. I think it would more reasonable to say you have a much better shot due to your high UMAT and with work ethic you will be more likely to get in. But UMAT score-> brains is not nessecarily true. As I said earlier there might be a correlation but nothing as set in stone.

Considering qbob is studying an interview-restricted course at Auckland, I'd say he probably knows what he's talking about in this case... Heck, I did the Otago dent interview, thought I'd done averagely at best (with zero preparation whatsoever), and got offered a place. I don't think you can predict your interview performance, nor can you really 'prepare' for it. Also, someone posted around here that one of the reasons (other than, y'know, cost ) that Auckland are looking into scrapping the interview is that it only actually changes 5% of the class (so only one in twenty people in the class wouldn't have gotten in without it, and vice versa), so it really isn't as much of a game-breaker as it's made out to be.

Otago dentistry interview is pass/fail. They do not weigh it unlike Auckland interview. Average is good enough at Otago interviews they just want to make sure your not completely in it for the money. I agree its very hard to predict your interview performance.

Ofcourse you can prepare for interviews. There are plenty of tips online which help. Even a bit of background reading about what to wear and interview ettiquette can go a long way, its common sense but youll be surpised how often people dont follow them. I have helped people with interviews and given them tips and they were much more able to convey their message convincingly. Interviews can very much be prepared for.
Prep can also include looking at past exam questions which can be repeated, in Otago it always is repeated. Auckland less so but still helps with the kind of questions.

Its irrelevant if qbob is in an interview restricted course I too have attended that same Auckland interview.

 

[frootloop]

I agree there might be a correlation but that is giving students far too much hope to say you have the brains to do it. I think it would more reasonable to say you have a much better shot due to your high UMAT and with work ethic you will be more likely to get in. But UMAT score-> brains is not nessecarily true. As I said earlier there might be a correlation but nothing as set in stone.



Otago dentistry interview is pass/fail. They do not weigh it unlike Auckland interview. Average is good enough at Otago interviews they just want to make sure your not completely in it for the money. I agree its very hard to predict your interview performance.

Ofcourse you can prepare for interviews. There are plenty of tips online which help. Even a bit of background reading about what to wear and interview ettiquette can go a long way, its common sense but youll be surpised how often people dont follow them. I have helped people with interviews and given them tips and they were much more able to convey their message convincingly. Interviews can very much be prepared for.
Prep can also include looking at past exam questions which can be repeated, in Otago it always is repeated. Auckland less so but still helps with the kind of questions.

Its irrelevant if qbob is in an interview restricted course I too have attended that same Auckland interview.

80 raw score would be like top 0.2% of all people who sat UMAT. I struggle to believe that UMAT fails so terribly at predicting success that someone scoring that highly doesn't have the brains to get into medicine. Anyway, you don't need ALL THE BRAINS to get into medicine, you really don't (eg: me).
Also, I like how you totally ignore the part about the interview only determining 5% of the class... Which means that your interview performance is highly unlikely to affect your chances of getting an offer. And I also don't like 'of course you can prepare for interviews', I'm yet to see any evidence to suggest you can, much like UMAT 'prep'...

 

[camwells]

80 raw score would be like top 0.2% of all people who sat UMAT. I struggle to believe that UMAT fails so terribly at predicting success that someone scoring that highly doesn't have the brains to get into medicine. Anyway, you don't need ALL THE BRAINS to get into medicine, you really don't (eg: me).
Also, I like how you totally ignore the part about the interview only determining 5% of the class... Which means that your interview performance is highly unlikely to affect your chances of getting an offer. And I also don't like 'of course you can prepare for interviews', I'm yet to see any evidence to suggest you can, much like UMAT 'prep'...

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in here.

Just from what I've seen in UMAT, it is by no means a perfect system, but I believe it does fairly well at predicting aptitude for medicine, especially with results towards the very top end of the scale. (as ChocolateSunshine achieved; congrats by the way (yy)) As with every and any test that is used for entry into medicine, UMAT is flawed, and that's just something that we as prospective med students will have to live with. From what I've read, there are people who have gotten into Auckland MBChB with UMATs of ~30th %ile. These people, while a minority, obviously do have the intellectual ability to make it into med, and either have extremely high GPAs, or have done outstandingly well on the interview.

It's interesting that the interview only affects 5% of entry into medicine; I have heard that stat quoted before... But the general consensus is that the interview does play a big part in admissions, as Auckland 'groups' UMAT scores, and as everyone has a similar GPA, it effectively levels the playing field. It's something that's up for debate I guess, but we'll never really know unless the University releases exactly how they work out who gets in and who doesn't.

I disagree with what you said about prep for UMAT and Interviews though. Personally, the first time I looked at some of the UMAT questions, especially those from sections 1 and 3, I found it difficult to see how to solve the question. I think UMAT prep, while in my opinion not worth the hundreds of dollars many spend on it, is helpful in that it shows you methods for solving the questions, which you can apply when actually sitting the test. Preparing for interviews may be as simple as thinking about your answers to some of the questions they may ask, so that in the interview, it shows that you've thought about why you want to do medicine, or about some of the ethical issues in certain situations you may be put in as a doctor. From what I've read as well, it helps to have an understanding of the Treaty of Waitangi and its implications for the health of Maori. Undoubtedly this understanding will come from reading and thinking about the issues faced by the health industry, which you could arguably class as interview preparation. However, I don't think it's advisable to take it to the extreme and "rote learn" answers to interview questions that have come up in the past.

But like I said, that's just my two cents worth, coming from my own personal experience and what I've read here on MSO. ^_^

 

[greenglacier]

I think there's good consensus that the Auckland interview has the potential to dramatically change the rankings for med. However, the 5% figure (which does sound reliable) shows that, in reality, its effect is fairly minor. What that suggests to me is that the majority of candidates with a good GPA/UMAT combo actually do pretty well in the interview and get in, such that it's hard to do well enough in the interview to get in if your GPA/UMAT is relatively uncompetitive.

As far as I see it, that 5% figure is a pretty good official statistic for how important the interview actually is.

With regard to prep for UMAT/interview, this has been discussed before, so I've got no real motivation to join in on the current discussion. However, I'd like to point out that they (prep for UMAT and prep for interviews) need to be treated as separate issues. Personally I don't think you can do much in the way of prep for UMAT besides familiarising yourself with the questions, but I definitely think you can prepare for interviews.

 

[ChocolateSunshine]

[MENTION=10716]frootloop[/MENTION]
Could you please explain what you mean by " only actually changes 5% of the class"? Obviously it means 95% of the class would have been the same..but how do you know this, can you elaborate more? it seems if the interview is 25%, and you could potentially get 0% or 25%, and GPA is 60%, that alot more than 5% would change?

 

[bobby190]

[MENTION=10716]frootloop[/MENTION],

When you say interview only determines only 5% of the class I presumed this, after deciding the class cohort via interview/GPA/UMAT then removing the interview component only 5% of the class will change and rest will the same people. This doesnt mean simply passing the interview will suffice, nor does it mean if you have a good GPA/UMAT you will be naturally good at interview. It could very well be likely that the people who got good GPA/UMAT are more motivated and would have been better prepared for the interviews. There is frequently questions in AU interview that requires you to do some preparation, health agenda for NZ , maori health etc.
For dent interview I think speaking to a dentist would count as interview preparation because you are preparing for something that is bound to come up in the interview. You do not need it, but it helps a great deal. If you were ill informed and showed up to an interview in poor dress code that could be prevented by some simple research into interview dress codes. If you knew the range of questions that were bound to come up in an interview you would be better equipped to answer questions as you can reflect on them before hand. Wide reading on medical news is common before a medicine interview. This is all preparation for an interview Id find it very surprising if you would find this to unhelpful in an interview situation.

Overall its not a game breaker, does not mean it hasnt got the potential prevent you from getting in. But as qbob mentioned "if your not a social outcast you will most likely pass" is not sound advice.

 

[greenglacier]

@bobby190

I don't think anyone is saying that the Auckland interview is easy, or that you don't have to do well in it to get in. I think the message being given is if you're worried about the Auckland interview it's not as scary as it can be made out to be - only 5% of people with competitive GPA/UMAT combos do poorly enough on the interview to cause them to lose their place. You're correct in that there could be a variety of mediators, and you're correct that this doesn't imply that people with high GPA/UMAT naturally do better at the interview, but I think it's a reassuring statistic regardless. 95% of people whose GPA/UMAT combo is high enough that they'd get in if the interview wasn't used, still get in. So, if you get a similar GPA/UMAT combo you know that the interview is unlikely to be a game changer, provided you prepare for it appropriately.

Gives some perspective to people who are worried about going to Auckland because of the effect the interview might have on their chances.