Choosing Between Universities and Offers

medically brown · Feb 5, 2020

griffith gold coast or jcu unbonded?

DrDrLMG! · Feb 5, 2020

medically brown said:
griffith gold coast or jcu unbonded?

As I believe we indicated to you last time, additional information is required for us to help you in any meaningful way.

Instead, I suggest you look here and answer the question yourself: Guide: Choosing Between Multiple Offers for Medicine/Dentistry

DrDrLMG! · Feb 5, 2020

Moving forward, if people have requests or enquiries for this thread, please use the following proforma:

Home state:
Offer 1: (including offer type, ie. CSP/BMP)
Offer 2: (including offer type, ie. CSP/BMP)
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered:
Any accommodation secured: (family, Uni, Private)
Internship location preference:
Other important information: (ie. keen on integrated research component, keen on tropical Med placements, etc)

medically brown · Feb 6, 2020

Home state: SA
Offer 1: JCU unbonded
Offer 2: griffith Gold Coast
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered: No
Any accommodation secured: uni accommodation for both would be needed
Internship location preference: i would prefer to intern near a city
Other important information: I do not mind about living cost - all i really want to know is specialization potential / the difference (if there is any difference) between the MD and MBBS. Is one inherently better? My friend who also got both these offers is choosing jcu as it is mbbs and I am not sure if mbbs is better than MD.

LMG! Sorry for the vague question hope this has more detail

TKAO · Feb 6, 2020

medically brown said:
Home state: SA
Offer 1: JCU unbonded
Offer 2: griffith Gold Coast
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered: No
Any accommodation secured: uni accommodation for both would be needed
Internship location preference: i would prefer to intern near a city
Other important information: I do not mind about living cost - all i really want to know is specialization potential / the difference (if there is any difference) between the MD and MBBS. Is one inherently better? My friend who also got both these offers is choosing jcu as it is mbbs and I am not sure if mbbs is better than MD.

LMG! Sorry for the vague question hope this has more detail

There is no difference between an MBBS or MD in Australia. Either is a recognised medical qualification so you won't need to consider any of that. Regarding interning near a city, I'm pretty sure Queensland has a random allocation system similar to NSW so really your chances at interning a city depend on your preference list when applying for internships, which would ideally not be affected by whichever university you go to. One thing to note is that JCU is more rural and primary care focused. It should also be noted that JCU consistently has had the most prepared students that enter the workforce according to some rankings. This does not imply that you have to become a rural GP once you graduate, but the school's emphasis is there should your career plans align with that. Regarding Griffith, you have to fight for a CSP position in your first two years as allocation of CSP/BMPs rely on uni grades. I think things you should try to consider are A. Do you think you'd want to try hard in the first two years at griffith to get a CSP position, or already have a CSP the moment you step into JCU? and B. Would you want to live in Townsville as opposed to the Gold Coast while studying? Is living in/near a city important to you while you are in medical school?

DrDrLMG! · Feb 6, 2020

medically brown said:
Home state: SA
Offer 1: JCU unbonded
Offer 2: griffith Gold Coast
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered: No
Any accommodation secured: uni accommodation for both would be needed
Internship location preference: i would prefer to intern near a city
Other important information: I do not mind about living cost - all i really want to know is specialization potential / the difference (if there is any difference) between the MD and MBBS. Is one inherently better? My friend who also got both these offers is choosing jcu as it is mbbs and I am not sure if mbbs is better than MD.

LMG! Sorry for the vague question hope this has more detail

Griffith has BMP potential, but not definite. JCU is obviously already locked in as no BMP. That’s a plus for JCU.

I think Qld use a ballot system so internship in a city is probably equally likely for both. Would you also rather live in a bigger city/close to during uni? If so, that might be a plus for Griffith.

At JCU you start Med straight away (ie. it’s not provisional). A plus to JCU, imo, but not for all.

At Griffith you’ll need to maintain a set GPA to progress to MD. No such worry at JCU, so that’s another plus.

In Aus, MBBS vs MD makes no difference whatsoever. I think MD might make working in the USA slightly more doable (though that’s still very difficult, I believe). So that could be another plus for Griffith.

Crow is at Griffith, so that’s obviously another plus!

ETA: if your mate is choosing JCU because it’s “better” for them to do direct entry MBBS and not provisional entry MD then I think that’s definitely legit. If they’re choosing it because they somehow think an MBBS is a “better” degree than an MD, then that’s probably a bit misinformed. So it really depends what their reason is for choosing MBBS over MD, if that makes sense?

ETA2: this is something that I factored in when I chose not to even apply to JCU that may or may not be relevant for you too. If I wanted to have a weekend at home for a special occasion, for example, flights from Townsville to Hobart were MUCH more complicated and time-consuming than capital city to Hobart. If you wanted to go back to Adelaide for a weekend, you could easily fly out of Brisvegas or the GC, but I don’t know if there are regular (or even any?) direct Townsville - Adelaide flights? You’d have to go via probably Brisbane, and that would drag things out and you’d spend most of your weekend on a plane.

Like I said, that may or may not be a factor for you, but just throwing it out there.

Crow · Feb 6, 2020

LMG! said:
@Crow is at Griffith, so that’s obviously another plus!

Honestly, the fact that people so much as consider universities outside of Griffith given this fact is appalling!

medically brown said:
Home state: SA
Offer 1: JCU unbonded
Offer 2: griffith Gold Coast
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered: No
Any accommodation secured: uni accommodation for both would be needed
Internship location preference: i would prefer to intern near a city
Other important information: I do not mind about living cost - all i really want to know is specialization potential / the difference (if there is any difference) between the MD and MBBS. Is one inherently better? My friend who also got both these offers is choosing jcu as it is mbbs and I am not sure if mbbs is better than MD.

LMG! Sorry for the vague question hope this has more detail

In seriousness, JCU seems like the obvious choice here, unless you have friends/family on the GC or would prefer to live on the GC a lot more than Townsville.

Alimea · Feb 6, 2020

So I have received an unbonded place to UTAS and a bonded place at the UoA so now I am in the dilemma in deciding which uni I should choose

I am from rural South Australia however, I am still unsure which course to take.

just wondering if any had any advice about why I should take one course over the others or which course will look better when applying for jobs.

DrDrLMG! · Feb 6, 2020

Alimea said:
So I have received an unbonded place to UTAS and a bonded place at the UoA so now I am in the dilemma in deciding which uni I should choose

I am from rural South Australia however, I am still unsure which course to take.

just wondering if any had any advice about why I should take one course over the others or which course will look better when applying for jobs.

I've moved your post to this appropriate existing forum.

Have a read of this guide: Guide: Choosing Between Multiple Offers for Medicine/Dentistry.

If you still have questions after this, please use the below proforma to ask them:

Home state:
Offer 1: (including offer type, ie. CSP/BMP)
Offer 2: (including offer type, ie. CSP/BMP)
(Offer 3, 4 as necessary.)
Any scholarships offered:
Any accommodation secured: (family, Uni, Private)
Internship location preference:
Other important information: (ie. keen on integrated research component, keen on tropical Med placements, etc)

medically brown · Feb 7, 2020

Hi thanks all for your help, I have a few more follow up questions

1. I am a bit confused about the intern allocation system, is this based on your merits/results in uni or is it completely random? And if I were to chose Griffith am I likely to receive an internship position at the gold coast uni hospital if this is my first preference?

2. As you start med straightaway at jcu, is the Griffith undergrad (medical sciences) course similar to the first 2 years at jcu? Or do you only do 'medicine' for 4 years at Griffith whereas you do 'medicine' for 6 years at jcu? hence would you be more prepared completing an mbbs compared to md?

3. Crow is jcu the obvious choice as it is unbonded? Also, what is the workload/dedication level to obtain an unbonded spot at Griffith? I know the GPA cut off is around 6.9 seems really high.

DrDrLMG! · Feb 7, 2020

1. I believe you have equal possibility of landing a Gold Coast Uni Hospital internship as a JCU grad as a Griffith grad would, given the way internship allocation works in Qld.

“After the application period has closed, applicants are sorted according to their applicant groups, preferences, and available positions at each facility.”

As a Qld grad, you would be a Group A applicant.

Recruitment and selection process overview | Queensland Health

An overview of the recruitment and selection process.

www.health.qld.gov.au

2. My understanding is that there is some crossover but not completely. For example, you’re not (yet) a medical student at Griffith, so you don’t do medical student placements. With Griffith, you would have the option to complete some elective subjects, too, across some different (not necessarily Med but more interest-based) areas that would not be available to you in the JCU degree. Crow would be able to clarify this further. That said, BOTH will achieve the end goal of training you to be a competent intern. There is no advantage to one or the other in this regard.

3. The “obvious” choice is going to be whichever of the degrees most closely meets your personal needs. For example, Crow may think JCU is the obvious choice, but personally, if I had those two offers and were having to decide, Griffith is the “obvious” choice for me. I have friends and family on the GC and in Brisbane, and it would be easier for me to fly home to Hobart for weekends. The prospect of ending up with a BMP would not personally put me off. It may others.

Crow · Feb 7, 2020

medically brown said:
@Crow is jcu the obvious choice as it is unbonded? Also, what is the workload/dedication level to obtain an unbonded spot at Griffith? I know the GPA cut off is around 6.9 seems really high.

Yep, plus the whole “start medicine from the get go” as you get early clinical placements etc. As LMG says, it’s a personal choice but it’s the obvious choice to ME in this situation. The 6.8-6.9 cutoff seems almost unfathomable to me (seeing as the cohort in the year I went through had around a 6.4 cutoff) but apparently it’s correct according to some of the other MSOers - if that’s the case, it is very high and you’ll need to be nailing most of your subjects to keep it at that level.

medically brown · Feb 7, 2020

Thanks, LMG! Crow TKAO for your insight.

I will be going to Griffith as I feel it would fit my lifestyle better.

Big Irrelevant · Feb 11, 2020

Home state: NSW
Offer 1: JMP UNE CSP
Offer 2: WSU BMP
Any scholarships offered: N/A
Any accommodation secured: Residential college for UNE. Family for WSU.
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information: I live in Sydney so based on the offers acceptance guide I should choose WSU. I also appreciate that working in rural and regional areas are increasingly a reality for many doctors given the competition around metropolitan positions. However, I would like to know how significantly the 3 years RoS post-fellowship will impact on my career. Thanks!

iroh · Feb 11, 2020

Big Irrelevant said:
Home state: NSW
Offer 1: JMP UNE CSP
Offer 2: WSU BMP
Any scholarships offered: N/A
Any accommodation secured: Residential college for UNE. Family for WSU.
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information: I live in Sydney so based on the offers acceptance guide I should choose WSU. I also appreciate that working in rural and regional areas are increasingly a reality for many doctors given the competition around metropolitan positions. However, I would like to know how significantly the 3 years RoS post-fellowship will impact on my career. Thanks!

So in terms of positions in metropolitan hospitals, you are guaranteed a 2yr internship contract in NSW and due to the random ballot system used in NSW u can guaranteed yourself in a metropolitan hospital for the first 2yrs out of uni. In terms of rural/regional experience, learning wise you are exposed to much more and have larger opportunities due to workforce shortages but that is something youll have to weigh against living far from home. Your bonded position at WSU which requires a RoS will have no impact on your career too much depending on what you are interested in and especially what you specialise in. For example if you want to be an research oncolgist at the fore front of medicine the RoS will have its drawbacks due to the lack of well funded cancer research centres in these rural areas. However if you see yourself as a surgeon/GP or any specialty that is generally in any hospital the RoS wont affect your career too much.

Good Luck!

TKAO · Feb 11, 2020

iroh said:
So in terms of positions in metropolitan hospitals, you are guaranteed a 2yr internship contract in NSW and due to the random ballot system used in NSW u can guaranteed yourself in a metropolitan hospital for the first 2yrs out of uni. In terms of rural/regional experience, learning wise you are exposed to much more and have larger opportunities due to workforce shortages but that is something youll have to weigh against living far from home. Your bonded position at WSU which requires a RoS will have no impact on your career too much depending on what you are interested in and especially what you specialise in. For example if you want to be an research oncolgist at the fore front of medicine the RoS will have its drawbacks due to the lack of well funded cancer research centres in these rural areas. However if you see yourself as a surgeon/GP or any specialty that is generally in any hospital the RoS wont affect your career too much.

Good Luck!

How exactly does the random allocation system in NSW mean that you have a random chance of getting into a rural hospital or a non-rural one? In that case how are you guaranteed to be in a metropolitan hospital?

iroh · Feb 11, 2020

TKAO said:
How exactly does the random allocation system in NSW mean that you have a random chance of getting into a rural hospital or a non-rural one? In that case how are you guaranteed to be in a metropolitan hospital?

Hey TKAO! Thanks for asking. First of all, the 2yr contracts that include your internship aren't allocated by individual hospital but rather by various hospital networks where in each network there is a varying combination of rural and metropolitan hospitals. Maybe the word random isnt the best but rather all medical graduates are on the same level playing field. Basically everyone puts in their preferences and a random system allocates positions to maximise the overall preferences of everyone and if you put in your preferences right you can "guarantee" or make it extremely likely to end up working at least 2yrs in a network where the chief hospital is a large metropolitan one.

Here is a link if you would like a read.

Internship: NSW Preferencing and Explanation

I've had several requests for this information so I thought I would just publish it here. (If you're from Victoria and applying for internship there, check out the equivalent guide for that written by pi at VIC Internship explanation ) I take no responsibility for whatever outcome may result...

medstudentsonline.com.au

jayson · Feb 11, 2020

Home state: NSW
Offer 1: UQ medicine CSP
Offer 2: UAdelaide medicine csp
Any scholarships offered: N/A
Any accommodation secured: Residential college both
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information: I live in Sydney which has good weather. I have never been to other cities.

Crow · Feb 11, 2020

jayson said:
Home state: NSW
Offer 1: UQ medicine CSP
Offer 2: UAdelaide medicine csp
Any scholarships offered: N/A
Any accommodation secured: Residential college both
Internship location preference: NSW
Other important information: I live in Sydney which has good weather. I have never been to other cities.