I’m going to add a bit of a summary of last night’s discussion (if I have chinaski’s permission) into a post on the BMP thread when I get the chance as it’s clearly something people would benefit from reading.
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Choosing Between Universities and Offers
- Thread starter bbydaisy
- Start date
REGULAR JOE
Regular Member
I would prefer to do my internship/ residency at Concord hospital in Sydney. I read the internship thread, and from my understanding, doing Curtin or Griffith doesn't make a difference. Is this correct?
That's correct. Assuming you completed your HSC in NSW, you'd be priority 2 for Curtin or Griffith. Have a look at this: https://www.heti.nsw.gov.au/__data/...Priority-List-for-2020-Intern-Recruitment.pdf
Of course it is difficult to predict if these things will change for future intakes.
Perhaps as a thought experiment, those who think it WOULDN'T be a problem to have a geographical workplace bond at a consultant level could explain their reasoning? As in, step-by-step, as a consultant-level doctor, how do you think you would navigate through job acquisitions and career progression while also fulfilling the contractual expectations of the BMP?
One thing not referenced aswell is because Griffith is a provisional program he is able to potentially reapply to WSU (and maybe UNSW - im not sure) and potentially other post grad schools in NSW after the completion of the medical science degree if he is really dead set on doing internship in Sydney.
One minor clarification is that he is Priority 2 is he completes his year 12 studies in NSW. Not nessecarily restricted to the HSC (as RegularJoe did A levels)
Yes to UNSW, plus JMP. They (UNSW) consider the Griffith provisional program to be two seperate degrees, but not the Flinders provisional program, I believe.
REGULAR JOE
Regular Member
Can someone please give me some advice? I'm from Sydney, and I have to choose between Curtin bmp, utas csp and Griffith.
Guide: Choosing Between Multiple Offers for Medicine/Dentistry
As usual, I've had a few requests to answering this and while there is a very simplistic method to helping you choose between universities from the thread Choosing Between Universities - and with offers coming out this might be relevant to those with multiple offers. Here is what Mana...
medstudentsonline.com.au
added by LMG!: obviously UTAS
. That said, o week was last week and formal classes started here today. Where are Curtin and Griffith at, start date-wise?
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UTAS easily wins - 5 years + no chance of a BMP means it is the safest option.
I’ve received this via PM. I will add my bit but I feel some of the senior members are more equipped to answer some of the latter questions than I am, so I’ll leave those to someone else.
Home state NSW but not too concerned about practicing there after graduating from my understanding.
Anonymous said:Hi Crow,
I received a bonded offer to Monash a few weeks ago, and today I received a top-up unbonded offer to UAdel. I'm trying to decide between these two now and I would really appreciate your input.
Factors I'm considering (arranged in order from top priority to bottom):
Btw, is it a good idea to pursue a PhD after specialisation, and simultaneously work 1.5 years in a rural area to complete my bonded contract? My main purpose in doing this is to hopefully negate any effect that working in a rural area has on my chances of working in a metro area in terms of needing references. Hope my question makes sense.
- The impact of the bonded contract on my chance to practise in a metropolitan area after specialisation (I'll need to work a min. of 1.5 years in a rural area with a BMP)
- Experience I will gain in specialties I'm interested in (currently interested in surgery, paediatrics or psychiatry)
- One extra year's impact on me getting into a specialty of my choice- not to mention that I have already taken a gap year and I would like to regain lost time
- My opportunities to obtain a PhD
- One extra year of financial pressure on my parents
- I already enrolled in Monash and have signed up for a lot of events/activities/societies and even made acquaintances w/ people in my cohort XD
- UAdel has already started and I'll need to sort out accommodation and enrolment matters really soon
- Closeness to family so it's easier for them to visit me during the holidays- Melbourne is closer to us than Adelaide
Other info:
I know I said earlier that the main factor for me when considering which med school I want to go to was the chance to practise in a metro area, but if I'm being really honest, I ultimately want to go into research rather than clinical practice (I do want to fulfil my RoS though, if I end up continuing with Monash BMP). Nevertheless, I also want to have clinical experience in a specialty and become a specialist. So, it actually doesn't really matter tbh.However, I am still concerned about whether this RoS has any impact on whether I'll gain clinical experience in metro areas at all once I start it.
Home state NSW but not too concerned about practicing there after graduating from my understanding.
Re the PM, I feel like mentioning that "experience they will gain in specialties they are interested" in shouldn't really differ between med schools, as "surgery, paeds, and psych" are all pretty broad and fundamental parts of any medical degree, and where specialties are concerned, a medical degree is a medical degree (i.e. a common notion from appliants that "different med schools focus on different specialties" isn't really the case.)
I'd also urge caution against having too specific an idea on what you'll want to do (specialty wise, or research/clinical wise) many years down the track - it's not a bad idea to think about it, but just keep in mind that there are a lot of years between now and then, and circumstances, aspirations, outlooks on life etc are prone to change over long periods of time - particularly as you find out more about things. For example you may get some exposure to research through your medical degree and discover that it's not really you, or not what you want to do as your main occupation; as another example, once you know more about the lifestyle, journey, and challenges associated with, let's say, surgical specialties, you may find yourself questioning whether that is for you.
My personal bias would be against the BMP if at all possible, however I do recognize the significant logistical challenges in moving universities after starting. I'm assuming a decision will have to be made ASAP?
I think chinaski would probably be best placed to address the question on specialties, BMP and possible PhD.
This rightfully is and should be your main concern. See below.
Irelevant. You'll get experience in all relevant specialties at both schools.
Irelevant. The school from which you graduate, and the length of study prescribed by that school, have nothing to do with specialty selection. Also, there is no such thing as "lost time" in life - just wasted opportunities and poorly-spent experience.
Irrelevant. You can obtain a PhD as a graduate from either school.
One way to mitigate that is to get a job and start contributing to your own support.
Easily done somewhere else. Temporary issue.
You would have trouble doing both. You need to commit to a minimum of three years full time work on a PhD, so you need proximity to the institution (and lab, or unit) with which you are completing your study. Working in a rural setting wouldn't facilitate that easily.
Furthermore, if you want to work in an urban area, in the competitive specialties (eg medicine and surgery), you're pretty much looking at having to have a higher degree, overseas fellowships, publications AND excellent references and reputation within the city. You can't mitigate working in an obscure place for a few years with a higher degree. People working in the city will have a PhD too. It's an arms race.
Other info:
I know I said earlier that the main factor for me when considering which med school I want to go to was the chance to practise in a metro area, but if I'm being really honest, I ultimately want to go into research rather than clinical practice (I do want to fulfil my RoS though, if I end up continuing with Monash BMP). Nevertheless, I also want to have clinical experience in a specialty and become a specialist. So, it actually doesn't really matter tbh.
Yeah, it does matter. If you want to pursue a career as an academic clinician, you are looking at a very competitive life after attaining your college specialisation. At the point of getting your ticket from the college (ie when you officially "become a specialist"), you then have to pour years of work into establishing your academic credentials, whilst also maintaining a presence in clinical work. That means: years of working on a higher degree, overseas fellowships etc etc - which, when also factoring in other things (time spent to get onto a training program, failed attempts at exams, leave to have a family etc) would bring you closer and closer to the time cut-off you have to perform your return of service. Academic clinicians commonly don't even start to get their careers off the ground (ie being recognised as academics in their own right, bringing down grants, leading projects) until about a decade after getting their specialist ticket. Disappearing off to work in the country would definitely throw a spanner in the works here.
Hi all
I'm currently in the first two weeks at JCU for medicine (non-bonded), and I've just got an offer for medicine (non-bonded) at the University of Adelaide. As I had lived in NSW, I would similarly be living away from home in either location. However, the difference is that I have external family in Townsville + have lived in the region before living in NSW.
I'm not certain if the quality of the degree differs by much, and considering the length of each degree is the same - 6 years - I don't see the degree in itself leaning one way or another (however, I believe JCU is better in terms of clinical placements, though the majority of them are rural).
In terms of practising medicine afterwards, I as of now plan to move to NSW and work there, however I realise interstate internships are relatively harder to get compared to local internships.
I've heard some negatives about attrition rates being unusually high in UoA (at least in the past) and difficulty in finding local interships. Is this still true?
I'm on the fence here now, and I'm looking for some pros and cons to make my decision.
PS: I've read the post outlining how to choose between medicine degrees, and the rank places University of Adelaide just above James Cook University. Why is this?
I'm currently in the first two weeks at JCU for medicine (non-bonded), and I've just got an offer for medicine (non-bonded) at the University of Adelaide. As I had lived in NSW, I would similarly be living away from home in either location. However, the difference is that I have external family in Townsville + have lived in the region before living in NSW.
I'm not certain if the quality of the degree differs by much, and considering the length of each degree is the same - 6 years - I don't see the degree in itself leaning one way or another (however, I believe JCU is better in terms of clinical placements, though the majority of them are rural).
In terms of practising medicine afterwards, I as of now plan to move to NSW and work there, however I realise interstate internships are relatively harder to get compared to local internships.
I've heard some negatives about attrition rates being unusually high in UoA (at least in the past) and difficulty in finding local interships. Is this still true?
I'm on the fence here now, and I'm looking for some pros and cons to make my decision.
PS: I've read the post outlining how to choose between medicine degrees, and the rank places University of Adelaide just above James Cook University. Why is this?
What exactly are you on the fence about?
- You've outlined you have external family in Townsville - positive.
- You've recognised both degrees are 6 years long - neutral.
- You think JCU is better in terms of clinical placements - positive.
- You've recognised interstate internships are harder but UoA and JCU are both interstate to your home state NSW - neutral.
Attrition rates high - that was in the past yes, now it is probably comparable to other unis. You can see the data for yourself here: Home - Medical Deans Australia and New Zealand I believe finding internship was difficult for internationals and not domestic students but again, it is hard to predict what will happen in 6 years time. Currently, domestic students are guaranteed internship after graduation.
University ranking doesn't matter and will not have any impact on you as a doctor.
As far as I can tell from your post, JCU seems to be the better option for you.
Agreed with Sherlock - seems like JCU is the obvious choice. From memory I thought you could also choose where you wanted to do some of your placements with JCU (so you could hypothetically go home to NSW to visit family while on placement if you wanted) - is that correct DNA alexlipton ? Adelaide’s program has been established for longer than JCU so that’s probably why Mana placed it above - but really that shouldn’t matter at all.
Hi there,
I do hope the first two weeks have been enjoyable! I honestly think you should consult wobblepong on this one, as he was in a similar position to you not too long ago with his Adelaide offer. Ultimately as the others have stated the possibility of interning back in NSW going to JCU or Adelaide is the same, being a CAT2 applicant. If you have family up here or you have a familiarity with the place that seems to me to be a bonus, but I guess it will really come down to what interests you most. I would possibly consider whether you'd prefer to intern in QLD or South Australia, as there is a high chance in both cases that should you want a competitive internship location, it will be placed in the state you graduate from.
Yes, if the concern for you is spending time away from family then there are plenty of opportunities for you to head back to your home state (NSW) if you wish. As you said, we do have a significant amount of clinical placements and while a lot of these are rural, you do get many electives which you can do pretty much anywhere as long as you get it approved with the supervising doctor. I myself just finished a placement back in non-rural NSW close-by to where I'm from as part of my MBBS 1 placement which you do at the end of first year. Even the rural placements you can do interstate (so for example some people go to Armidale if they find a doctor willing to take them).
Let me know if you want any more details, and I wish you all the best with your decision, whatever you choose.
Apart from the points you mentioned, is there any other factors that you may take into account? For example, weather (tropical vs Mediterranean), rural orientated vs metro, international work opportunities (may related to the rankings of the unis or med schools), etc.
A factor that doesn't apply to everyone but I mention just in case. If there's a possibility you might want to practise in Singapore, med degree from Adelaide is recognised by the Singapore Medical Council, not for JCU.
I just looked it up and wow that is surprising. UTAS and Newcastle don't seem to be recognised as well which seems astounding! Especially as there are a number of Singaporean international students in cohorts here... I don't know if this is likely to change but still very interesting.